And yet, Calor take no action against those that do so, nor against any of the websites that facilitate their sale.
They could quite easily raise this issue with eBay and make their sale prohibited, yet don't. In reality, it simply improves the availability of the bottles by moving them out from the back of the garage and returning them to circulation.
And is also a matter of "ethics". but then that aspect plays both ways. Is pulling a product that their clients have invested big money into, an ethical act by the "supplier"?
Whilst. those who can fit a 6kg propane steel /7kg butane are likely to be marginally hurt, in the case of the butane user only to the cost of an adaptor, those unfortunates who can't fit these larger bottles are seriously going to be hurt. I don't think its laughable to suggest they move over to a Campingaz 907; here per kg the butane is very dear plus a change of adaptors. Are they going to even exchange the dumpy for a Campingaz 907 or is that another "hurt" they are inflicting on those clients who supported them?
Ethics, even if not the law plays both ways.
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How many people would have that rental agreement. We got given our cylinder by the dealer and never signed any contract. I suspect the majority never signed any contract so no contract in place anyway and if no contract nothing can be enforced. problem solved. In I would think that in addition the contract was for the original purchase and not subsequent purchases. Calor would be a total joke if they tried to prosecute anyone.
Calor aren’t really being materially affected as other suppliers such as Flogas or smaller local companies will not accept a Calor bottle for exchange so eventually the Calor bottle will be returned to a Calor outlet for an exchange. It’s really not something I get worked up about.
I can see both sides of this - Prof is right - anyone who acquired a Calor cylinder legally will have signed the agreement, and it DOES cover every refill / exchange. That said, Buckman is also right, very few of us will still have that bit of paper. Last time I bought a cylinder I made a conscious effort to put the paperwork somewhere safe - no idea where it is now, I suspect it was in the pile of documents I handed over when I traded in the caravan.
If Calor were serious about enforcing the cylinder refill agreements and everything that goes with them, they'd make it easier: They have their own copy of the agreement and I'd bet that if I challenged them to prove I'd ever signed one, they'd be able to produce an electronic copy of it. Yet if I want to return a cylinder and get my "deposit" back, it's up to me to prove that I legally have the right to return the cylinder.
To a point, if "dodgy" cylinders being in circulation causes Calor a problem, they've brought it on themselves: In one fell swoop they're making unavailable every cylinder size that will be the preferred choice of most of the leisure sector, and their response is "if you don't like it, other suppliers are available. Oh, and good luck disposing of your current Calor cylinders when they're empty - unless you're one of the 1% who've got their refill agreement, you can return them to us for scrap value or you can sell them on eBay or at the car boot sale, or you can find someone who will illegally refill them for you".
Let me make clear, I'm not condoning any of those illegal actions, just that I understand why many will feel the temptation, and as Little basher says, Calor have proved by their lack of action that they're prepared to tolerate them.
Where I disagree with the Prof is not in his facts about the law - they're absolutely accurate - but in his priorities. The law is important (and ultimately, there for the protection of everyone), but the most important reason for not buying/selling/exchanging cylinders by any route other than the official one, is that at some point these cylinders are being refilled illegally, and quite probably unsafely: And that lack of safety should be our main reason for not condoning these illegal actions.
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Just to add when you sign the paper you probably get a brand new bottle in pristine condition. When it comes time for refill, although your bottle is like brand new, you are probably given one that is scraped and looks to be about 100 years old. Hardly seems to be an enforceable contract in that case as it is very unfair.
Big impetus though now for some owners of the dumpy cylinders to turn to self or backyard refilling. Not exactly the supplier focusing on the safety aspect?
The arrangement suits Calor - it keeps cylinders in circulation - if it were stopped, more people would simply hoard their unused cylinder or send them to landfill -this is due to the low return value if the original renter still has their agreement - the arrangement does keep up the flow of revenue for Calor in refill charges
These ads aren't asserting their ownership of the cylinder - just offering it's use to a new user.
Mel
Moderator
Presumably Calor will not allow us to trade in a smaller discontinued cylinder against a 6kg cylinder. This will mean a load of now useless empty cylinders sitting in sheds, garages, recycling centres etc. Hardly responsible.
Mel
Mel
In our area the council recycling don’t accept cylinders in landfill or waste metal. They all go into a fenced compound to be collected. At one time you could make a small “ donation” for a cylinder but no longer.
No you don't, you receive whatever cylinder the dealer has in his stock.
When you purchase a Calor cylinder for the first time there’s nothing to say you should receive a brand new one. What you are getting is a cylinder that will have been processed through Calor quality system which is detailed on their website. It will be repainted as required. But having a brand new one isn’t materially important as you stick it away in a locker and within a finite time it’s empty and being taken for exchange.
If you have a look at Calor's FAQ (link in my starting post) it tells you what you can swap for what. But yes, you can swap a discontinued for a bigger cylinder, and the 3.9kg > 6kg is one they're allowing.
Yesterday my local caravan shop traded an empty light for a full 6kg heavy. Not what I wanted - I was hoping for a 3.9kg propane, but they are only doing like-for-like, they are saving their few available 3.9 cylinders for people bringing in 3.9s.
Possibly I'd have had more luck if I'd gone to the Calor depot, but we're away this weekend and I wanted gas with the minimum of faff.
It's only at official Calor depots that you can insist on cylinder size swaps as per Calor's website - Calor retailers like site wardens aren't obliged to do those swaps.
Such size swaps don't need the original rental agreement as Calor have had various swap campaigns in the past - my agreement is for Aluminium 7kg butane cylinders, withdrawn decades ago.
Actually when i brought this dumpy 3.9kg propane from a Calor depot it did not look new but that was three years ago but it has not been used .
There are thousands of yachts and cabin cruiser which were made in the 1970's & 1980's (and later) which were made with a Vented Gas Locker just big enough to take a small Calor Gas Bottle. And if they stop producing these bottles the larger bottles wont go in the locker. Boat owners have actually started a Government Petition about it.
When I can find out how to do it I will put a link on this website if anyone wants to sign it.
When I can find out how to do it I will put a link on this website if anyone wants to sign it.
I do find it strange that Calor is effectively disenfranchising themselves from the touring caravan market. But there other usages where the small cylinders were often used by professionals in the building sector, caterers, and others. All these other users are going to be severely inconvenienced by the withdrawal of these smaller cylinder sizes.
However I have seen professionals who have been using smaller sized cylinders from other gas suppliers, I wish I could remember who they were.
Perhaps its worth checking your locality for other brands of gas supplier, and see what they may be able to offer. The down side of this might be the lack of available swaps from the same supplier in different locations, but from my own past experience, just ensuring my cylinder(s) were full enough for the intended get away, and I never had to purchase gas whilst away.
If you anticipate a long tour abroad, then it might be wise to look at choosing an international brand like Camping Gaz which do have outlet's across many different countries.
However I have seen professionals who have been using smaller sized cylinders from other gas suppliers, I wish I could remember who they were.
Perhaps its worth checking your locality for other brands of gas supplier, and see what they may be able to offer. The down side of this might be the lack of available swaps from the same supplier in different locations, but from my own past experience, just ensuring my cylinder(s) were full enough for the intended get away, and I never had to purchase gas whilst away.
If you anticipate a long tour abroad, then it might be wise to look at choosing an international brand like Camping Gaz which do have outlet's across many different countries.
The way I read it the small 3.9 kg propane and the 6 kg propane are still available, So is there a problem?
Post #5 here, well near the beginning of this thread gave simply solutions.
I know one campervan owner has already purchased the butane version.
Well yes, the problem isn't insurmountable - but loads of us have money invested in what Calor call "cylinder charges" which we're not going to get back unless we've got the original paperwork. As long as we were able to keep exchanging our cylinders for full ones, that wasn't a problem, but now it is one: between the caravan and cylinders at home and in the workshop for heating, I've got about 7 cylinders, 6 of which are going to have to be swapped to another make in order to get a usable size. At an average cylinder charge of £40, that's a lot of cash I'd rather be spending on other things.
If you have a dual or twin supply for two gas bottles in your locker, I am wondering if one tail can be used for the normal propane bottle and the other tail for a Campingaz cylinder or a Butane cylinder? Not sure if the bulkhead regulator would be suitable for both types?
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