It would be a shame if you didn’t describe your findings on the Forum, as how else will other members be able to discern your views. I for one would be very interested in what you do to test one. Why keep it a secret?
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So what will you do whilst testing this Safefill bottle, and of course the main question WHY.
Maybe your real name is Ellon Musk, aka Mellon Eusk,
I. Think this thread should have been put in the ChitChat section under Humour.
I like a good laugh.
I am confident that Safefill do as much as any reputable supplier to ensure their product is functional and safe to use provided the manufacturers instructions are followed. Why therefore would you want or need to "test" the product? You can verify from their web site the dimensions and weight of the cylinder and the maximum gas take of rates will be more than adequate for any touring caravan.
If you are concerned about the refilling, then that's not a problem for the cylinder but of the capability or willingness of the gas supplier - in which case that will be dependant on the suppliers you choose, so a "test" of one supplier is not going to give a universal result.
I would like to stress that as this is a caravan forum, I was referring to caravan related observation or things including tow cars and not nuclear and not anything else.
My "testing" of a Safefill cylinder relates to its use on several or more years and nothing else and I feel I can make factual remark on its usage etc and nothing more.
When Calor announced in 2017 that new Calorlite would no longer be made, this followed an earlier safety recall, I decided to see what options were open to me. I used to carry two 6kg propane steel when away for extended periods. One for the caravan systems and the other for the BBQ. Even with Calorlite I continued that practice, and then just had one cylinder if in UK when the BBQ/Cadac wasn't to be carried. Or the BBQ/Cadac was fed Camping gas from my lightweight camping cylinder. (Cost no object)
I considered refillable cylinders including Safefill and Gaslow. Firstly the price wasn't attractive for composite or steel self fill cylinders, and the latter were heavy. There also seemed to be a trend where autogas was becoming more difficult to source so I was conscious of possibly being left with two bottles worth around £400 that were effectively rendered obsolete. Also I looked at the life expectancy of self fill cylinders particularly as they have components that could require replacement or possibly fail. On the Safefill website it stated that the cylinder was warranted for 10 years but some components only two years. Safefill also stated that iaw " guidelines" the cylinder should be inspected every 10 years. The current website now says "recertified" every 10 years. I actually telephoned Safefill and asked "how is a cylinder inspected?" for life extension. Did they have a procedure through their authorised outlets. To be blunt there was not any procedure or system in being. Which did not give me a warm feeling. Now Safefill have a system whereby if an owner registers their bottle they may contact them at random to invite the owner to have the cylinder inspected. Of course this has a weakness that if a cylinder is sold or moves on with the caravan it may not be re-registered by the new owner.
So as we were not large users of gas, even on CL/CS we looked for EHU hook ups, I stayed with my Calorlites, until eventually one was replaced with a steel 6kg propane. Had I gone to lightweight composite cylinders I would have gone for the Gaslight on the grounds that the exchange cylinders are subjected to a comprehensive inspection and replacement of any parts that may be required before being returned for sale.
Members may not be aware of the comprehensive procedures that exchange cylinders for the major players are subjected to in order to ensure safety is not compromised. Such procedures cost money be that labour costs or investment in capital equipment. Calorlites were withdrawn because so many were being scrapped on account of damage. They were more costly to repair, or could not be repaired. This came at a time when cheaper Chinese imports started to arrive, which were of lower quality and some were probably even being refilled by owners using imported adaptors of dubious provenance bought on Ebay or similar, as reputable gas equipment companies would not supply such parts.. This trend is what has doubtless driven Calor to further rationalise their range of steel cylinders, in order to maintain profitability.
I append a report by the World LPG Association which although 2016 is still relevant. It illustrates the approach adopted by a number of countries and UK's approach is at page 53.
GCN-Report-Managing-the-life-extension-of-an-LPG-cylinder-FINAL-FINALv3.pdf
I considered refillable cylinders including Safefill and Gaslow. Firstly the price wasn't attractive for composite or steel self fill cylinders, and the latter were heavy. There also seemed to be a trend where autogas was becoming more difficult to source so I was conscious of possibly being left with two bottles worth around £400 that were effectively rendered obsolete. Also I looked at the life expectancy of self fill cylinders particularly as they have components that could require replacement or possibly fail. On the Safefill website it stated that the cylinder was warranted for 10 years but some components only two years. Safefill also stated that iaw " guidelines" the cylinder should be inspected every 10 years. The current website now says "recertified" every 10 years. I actually telephoned Safefill and asked "how is a cylinder inspected?" for life extension. Did they have a procedure through their authorised outlets. To be blunt there was not any procedure or system in being. Which did not give me a warm feeling. Now Safefill have a system whereby if an owner registers their bottle they may contact them at random to invite the owner to have the cylinder inspected. Of course this has a weakness that if a cylinder is sold or moves on with the caravan it may not be re-registered by the new owner.
So as we were not large users of gas, even on CL/CS we looked for EHU hook ups, I stayed with my Calorlites, until eventually one was replaced with a steel 6kg propane. Had I gone to lightweight composite cylinders I would have gone for the Gaslight on the grounds that the exchange cylinders are subjected to a comprehensive inspection and replacement of any parts that may be required before being returned for sale.
Members may not be aware of the comprehensive procedures that exchange cylinders for the major players are subjected to in order to ensure safety is not compromised. Such procedures cost money be that labour costs or investment in capital equipment. Calorlites were withdrawn because so many were being scrapped on account of damage. They were more costly to repair, or could not be repaired. This came at a time when cheaper Chinese imports started to arrive, which were of lower quality and some were probably even being refilled by owners using imported adaptors of dubious provenance bought on Ebay or similar, as reputable gas equipment companies would not supply such parts.. This trend is what has doubtless driven Calor to further rationalise their range of steel cylinders, in order to maintain profitability.
I append a report by the World LPG Association which although 2016 is still relevant. It illustrates the approach adopted by a number of countries and UK's approach is at page 53.
GCN-Report-Managing-the-life-extension-of-an-LPG-cylinder-FINAL-FINALv3.pdf
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Swmbo and I are in a somewhat unique position - when loaded normally with two Calorlites in the front locker, our Lunar Clubman has a very low noseweight so we load our bulk food supplies into a collapsible stacker box for travel and position it at the front between the front seats to get it up to 100 kg - the car will take 140 kg but the caravan is limited to 100 kg.
So for us, the withdrawal of Calorlites and replacement with 6kg steel propane cylinders is no hardship from a noseweight point of view although at my age/health I'll struggle to lift them into the locker. A 6kg cylinder lasts us about 3 years so even changing to Flogas would be uneconomic.
I know from threads/posts on the forum that many have the opposite problem with very heavy noseweight and/or towcar with a low noseweight limit - the Flogas Gaslight for low/medium users of LPG and the Safefill for high users of LPG seem to be the obvious choice.
So for us, the withdrawal of Calorlites and replacement with 6kg steel propane cylinders is no hardship from a noseweight point of view although at my age/health I'll struggle to lift them into the locker. A 6kg cylinder lasts us about 3 years so even changing to Flogas would be uneconomic.
I know from threads/posts on the forum that many have the opposite problem with very heavy noseweight and/or towcar with a low noseweight limit - the Flogas Gaslight for low/medium users of LPG and the Safefill for high users of LPG seem to be the obvious choice.
Aaaaand to return to the original intention of this thread.....
I finished up my Calor Lite over the weekend, and contacted my local calor depot this morning (it's actually a private company but they're so big they do everything the Calor depots used to do before they stopped admitting the public).
Although according to the Calor website the discontinuance of 3.9 propane starts tomorrow, the only thing they'll swap a Calor Light for is a 6kg Heavy. As I've got a full 6kg heavy and a full SafeFill I'm not really interested, so I'll have an empty Calor Lite sitting in my garage. If I ever manage to empty the 6kg heavy (unlikely, as it's only going to be a back up for if the SafeFill runs out and I can't get it filled locally), I'll look at either another SafeFill, or a FloGas light as a backup. Probably the Flogas, as having only SafeFills feels a bit like all eggs in one basket.
I finished up my Calor Lite over the weekend, and contacted my local calor depot this morning (it's actually a private company but they're so big they do everything the Calor depots used to do before they stopped admitting the public).
Although according to the Calor website the discontinuance of 3.9 propane starts tomorrow, the only thing they'll swap a Calor Light for is a 6kg Heavy. As I've got a full 6kg heavy and a full SafeFill I'm not really interested, so I'll have an empty Calor Lite sitting in my garage. If I ever manage to empty the 6kg heavy (unlikely, as it's only going to be a back up for if the SafeFill runs out and I can't get it filled locally), I'll look at either another SafeFill, or a FloGas light as a backup. Probably the Flogas, as having only SafeFills feels a bit like all eggs in one basket.
Like us many people will have an empty Calorlite sitting in storage somewhere. After all it is time and hassle to take back the cylinder that you cannot use any longer. For us it is a 20 mile round trip plus the time and then to get nothing in return. At least on places like eBay you can get some money for the empty cylinder!
It's not that bad for me, I could have got to the depot after work tonight, and if they'd swap the empty cylinder for something that would one day be useful to me, I would have done. If they'd been able to give me a 3.9kg, I'd have put that in the caravan alongside the SafeFill and the 6kg heavy could have cluttered up the garage until the 3.9kg was empty - which, as stated above, would take a while with it only ever being the backup cylinder.
Another 6kg heavy is no use to me, so I'm not going to inconvenience myself by taking the Light back to Calor for no return.
Though I suspect a full Calor 6 kg heavy propane will have a real value on the "grey-market" with the challenges even to take out new contracts has been for newbies to caravanning & motorhoming?
Though I accept it makes one guilty of some heinous crime
Of course, that grey-market is only there with those not savvy enough to know what they are walking into.
Fair point, I was thinking of keeping hold of the light because presumably at some point in the future, if I need to, I'll still be able to exchange it for something else from the Calor range. Maybe by the time it becomes necessary, Calor will have had a rethink and introduced CalorLight 2.0 or something.
Once I pass the cylinder on - by whatever means - I've lost the option to make use of it myself and as long as Calor are implementing "no new contracts" I've lost some flexibility.
Who knows - if we all move to SafeFill, maybe Calor will spot an opportunity and introduce a user-refillable cylinder. If they developed something that could be swapped empty-for-full like a standard Calor cylinder, OR legally and safely user-filled, I'd go for it.
Once I pass the cylinder on - by whatever means - I've lost the option to make use of it myself and as long as Calor are implementing "no new contracts" I've lost some flexibility.
Who knows - if we all move to SafeFill, maybe Calor will spot an opportunity and introduce a user-refillable cylinder. If they developed something that could be swapped empty-for-full like a standard Calor cylinder, OR legally and safely user-filled, I'd go for it.
I had a 26ft Motor Boat where when it was designed the two 4.5 Calor Gas Containers were in vented lockers at the back of the boat and the rear seat folded down on top of them. Using larger bottles would not allow the rear seat to fold down.
The volatility charge is a new one on me! I did a 10kg GasLite refill from B&M mid 22 and and 5kg in late 22. I confess I have not looked at the cost - it just is what it is.
My choice on Gaslite (as opposed to Calor Lite) comes down to weight (10kg GasLite Tare = 5kg, 5kg GasLite Tare = 3.4kg, Calor Lite 6Kg Tare = 4.5kg), and availability. I can get GasLite at 2 separate stockist within 1/2 mile of me - Calor Lite is now dead.
The Calor 6kg regular bottle weighs 7kg to 10kg on its own I.e. a gross weight of 15kg-17kg vs 8.4 for 5kg FloGas Gaslite. That a 7kg to 9kg payload saving I can use for beer or wine
For reference
FloGas
Calor
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I think we need to be in the calor gas thread. Apologies to allThe volatility charge is a new one on me! I did a 10kg GasLite refill from B&M mid 22 and and 5kg in late 22. I confess I have not looked at the cost - it just is what it is.
My choice on Gaslite (as opposed to Calor Lite) comes down to weight (10kg GasLite Tare = 5kg, 5kg GasLite Tare = 3.4kg, Calor Lite 6Kg Tare = 4.5kg), and availability. I can get GasLite at 2 separate stockist within 1/2 mile of me - Calor Lite is now dead.
The Calor 6kg regular bottle weighs 7kg to 10kg on its own I.e. a gross weight of 15kg-17kg vs 8.4 for 5kg FloGas Gaslite. That a 7kg to 9kg payload saving I can use for beer or wine
For reference
FloGas
Calor
After having to change to two Calor 6kg "heavies" in my van, the nose weight is a bit close. I've been considering getting Gaslights for a while. Tonight I just found two being sold in my area for a cheap price so I'm off to pick them up tomorrow. I don't yet need to commit to changing over but for the price I thought I may as well have them as an option. I can always sell them them on if I decide not to change.
When I had two 6 kg Calor “heavies” I rarely needed to travel with both in the locker. The only times were if one was getting low so the full one went in as back up. Or if abroad when one stayed in the locker mainly to supply the cooker. The other was removed out of the locker and was for the bbq.
Very logical; made easier to make the right call when using Gaslights as the remaining amount of gas can be "seen" by viewing the level, without the real need to weigh the bottle.
Obviously, with the spherical bottom of the composite Gaslight plus the view blinding from the external "cage" make the last residual quantity hard to estimate, you soon develop a good understanding of the amount that remains.
Weight wise, as the "tare" even of the 10kg version of a Gaslight is only about 5.25kg, then carrying a near depleted one and a second full, can offer a saving over using the same practice with Calor's commercial 6 kg steels that tares range widely, right from 7.3 up to 10.9kgs.
Calor’s CRA(sic) Cylinder Refill Agreement, lasts 50 years.
Where the written agreement is over 7 years old a 25% refund will be offered.
The newer the CRA the higher the % refund.
Like all pressure vessels it is essential a regular professional examination is carried out. Calor do this very testing to some degree at each refill dependent upon age.
Self refills may not get the professional examination !
Ask yourself why you change you gas hose every 5 years? I will be sticking with Calor. I must admit my original agreements from 40+ years ago have disappeared 😵💫
Where the written agreement is over 7 years old a 25% refund will be offered.
The newer the CRA the higher the % refund.
Like all pressure vessels it is essential a regular professional examination is carried out. Calor do this very testing to some degree at each refill dependent upon age.
Self refills may not get the professional examination !
Ask yourself why you change you gas hose every 5 years? I will be sticking with Calor. I must admit my original agreements from 40+ years ago have disappeared 😵💫
My use of Calor “ heavies” stopped when Calorlite were introduced but I kept to the same routine. I guess what influenced my decision was that Calor were widely available and cheaper to exchange than when BP introduced Gaslight. But certainly since Flogas from BP took over there’s been an improvement in Gaslight stockists.
Agree your comments wrt pressure vessels. I did consider Safefill at one time when Calorlite were being removed. The website advised an inspection at 10 years but when I contacted Safefill they were unable to advise where and whom would carry out an inspection. I notice their website now says that if your bottle is registered with Safefill the may contact registers owners at random to carry out a free inspection. How bottles not registered or sold on are dealt with isn’t addressed. Bearing in mind that refillable bottles have internal components, seals and valves the oversight provided is nothing like Calor or Flogas provide on cylinders returned for exchange.
This seller on E bay is still exchanging calor lites and also Other bottles, I suspect refilling themselves. Good prices though. Millisons Wood Meriden.
www.ebay.co.uk
Security measure
The safety inspecting of gas cylinders is an aspect of ownership that is often overlooked by the purchaser. Realistically the cylinder is unlikely to fail unless it's been abused, but as otherclive rightly points out the valve gear being brass has a propensity to wear, and any seals can degrade over time and usage.
One can buy a spray to show any gas leaks, but not sure if will highlight any issues with the valve gear leaking. I guess a lot depends on how often it is refilled and whether the cylinder is subject to abuse?
As I use less than 2x6 kg propane bottle a year, the cost of transferring to Gaslites for me is not worth it. I would need two 5 kg bottles and a connector,
I would only carry two calor bottles if one was really low .
Gaslites refill cost for a 5kg is £38.50, Calor 6kg is £28. . I have enough spare weight in the caravan to carry the Calor heavies.
If I was starting out as a Newbie it might be different.
I would only carry two calor bottles if one was really low .
Gaslites refill cost for a 5kg is £38.50, Calor 6kg is £28. . I have enough spare weight in the caravan to carry the Calor heavies.
If I was starting out as a Newbie it might be different.
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