Did i read that right Grumpy, you're refilling non-consumer refillable Gaslight cylinders on the forecourt ?
Parksy
Moderator
I had the impression that the grumpy guy doesn't understand what this forum is about.
He seemed to have set out to try to ruffle some feathers, he commented elsewhere that he'd probably be thrown off the forum, but he's apparently flounced off after I tried to offer an explanation of the legal constraints that this forum is bound by.
Grumpy is welcome to use this forum , but he needs to calm down a bit. 😊
My advice is ignore calor and go with Gaslite. You can find them in B&M, any remaining HomeBase and some independants. I have one 5kg and one 10kg. They use the clip on tail, you can see how much is left in them and the bottle its self is light weight.
As I am taking so much stick I thought I should reply.
Grumpy thought the words PRACTICAL (of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something rather than with theory and ideas) Caravan was a place where practical
people could discuss real world issues no gobbledegook theories and ideas, Grumpy was wrong.
I am not a troll only a practical man who is very calm, but fed up of 50 years of very hard work listening to "experts" who think they know everything because they have read a couple of books.
If you want to know about something, do it, don't write about it, and think you know it all.
So legally you are responsible for what I write on a blog, Is that correct?
Yours very calmly
Grumpy
The criticism that came your way related to your practise of refilling gas cylinders that are not designed to be refilled my members of the public at garage forecourts or other non authorised places. Whilst you may have sufficient experience to get away with it, such dubious practices could encourage someone with a lot less experience to do it, snd get it wrong resulting in a safety incident or worse. Such practices as your could actually lead to outlets refusing to let cylinders be refilled thus placing restrictions on those who use cylinders such as Safefill. or Gaslow being refilled by themselves. Practical doesn’t equate to stupidity.
Calor's concern at unlawful and dangerous refilling of LPG cylinders at petrol stations I Calor Press Center
LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) supplier, Calor is extremely concerned at the reported rise in the number of people filling up gas cylinders using autogas dispensers at petrol forecourts.
Flogas investigation exposes illegal gas cylinder filling | Flogas
Flogas Britain, one of the UK?s leading liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) suppliers has won a major victory in the battle to stop the highly dangerous practice o...
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Parksy
Moderator
Grumpy, you're not writing a blog.
This is a public internet forum which is owned and run by an international publishing company, and any comment that appears is regarded as having been published by that company.
I can see where you're coming from with your insistence on disregarding H&S legislation, but your apparent contempt for forum members who advise caution is misplaced and quite frankly, insulting.
You have absolutely no idea of the work experience that gives rise to their words of caution from some forum members.
As it happens, I do know something of the backgrounds of some forum members who add comments or advice, and you'd be surprised at the wealth of experience within this forum.
I haven't doubted your own past experience, but I have no way of knowing what your working practices may or may not be.
This forum tries to explain the practical aspects of touring caravan ownership, but like it or not the Health and Safety Act 1974 is enshrined in law, it's not something that an 'expert' who has read a couple of books decided to make up in order to frustrate you or anybody else.
Because this forum is owned and administered by a responsible international company, we can't advise forum members to break or to disregard the law, and neither can we allow forum members to advocate illegal activity in their published comments.
On this forum we often have questions from new members who have never before owned a touring caravan and some of them display a lack of practical experience or know how with their comments.
When a newbie shows that they have no idea that their caravan has two separate electrical systems, and they want to install a 230v socket, should we advise them to 'do it', or should we advise them to read what an experienced caravanner has written about how to do the job properly and safely, without endangering themselves or anybody else?
LPG systems are not particularly complicated, but we honestly can't advise a novice caravanner to just 'do it' while disregarding a few words of experienced based caution from members who have worked on these systems, and in some cases designed and built them.
Some of our forum members have had
to deal with the results when something had gone wrong.
This reply isn't a "telling off" any more than my previous reply to you was.
I'm merely trying to explain to you in a reasonably polite and friendly way that forum moderators can't allow an online free for all, there are legal constraints that this forum has to operate within, whether we like it or not.
Forum members are interested enough in your comments to have replied to them, the 'stick' is tongue in cheek with no harm meant.
If you decide never to darken our online door again that's up to you but it's a shame, stick around for a while and you'll get used to the jokes and silly replies and wil probably dish out a few of your own.
The criticism that came your way related to your practise of refilling gas cylinders that are not designed to be refilled my members of the public at garage forecourts or other non authorised places. Whilst you may have sufficient experience to get away with it, such dubious practices could encourage someone with a lot less experience to do it, snd get it wrong resulting in a safety incident or worse. Such practices as your could actually lead to outlets refusing to let cylinders be refilled thus placing restrictions on those who use cylinders such as Safefill. or Gaslow being refilled by themselves. Practical doesn’t equate to stupidity.
Calor's concern at unlawful and dangerous refilling of LPG cylinders at petrol stations I Calor Press Center
LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) supplier, Calor is extremely concerned at the reported rise in the number of people filling up gas cylinders using autogas dispensers at petrol forecourts.www.calor.co.uk
Flogas investigation exposes illegal gas cylinder filling | Flogas
Flogas Britain, one of the UK?s leading liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) suppliers has won a major victory in the battle to stop the highly dangerous practice o...www.flogas.co.uk
Yes I can understand your way of thinking it COULD actually place restrictions on people who use Safefill.
I cannot comment on Safefill but I will buy one and test it. From what Ive seen on the internet the quality of the bottle and one way valve look a bit suspect, but I won't say much until Ive purchased one. If I'm am in any doubt about the quality I will throw it away.
Another of my pet hates is people who comment on an item and have never owned one seen one or touched one. I have spent a lot of money buying things just to test them before I give my opinion.
The one way valve system I have seen is very substantial and proven by BOC.
The other item you mentioned, Gaslow, I have no idea about so will not comment.
Talking of stupidity have a look at the terrified Manon you tube fitting a pipe to the outside of his motorhome, It is unbelievable
If you decide never to darken our online door again that's up to you but it's a shame, stick around for a while and you'll get used to the jokes and silly replies and wil probably dish out a few of your own.
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Parksy
OK Thank you for your advice. I have just replied to someone as your msg came through.
I will never have the benightedness or discourteousness to give anyone a silly reply to a question.
[/QUOTE]
Parksy
OK Thank you for your advice. I have just replied to someone as your msg came through.
I will never have the benightedness or discourteousness to give anyone a silly reply to a question.
Grumpy, I cannot help but think you are, in the most modern terms " click baiting" people, the building of aircraft and helicopters by yourself , mostly interest myself. The gas bottles are another item.
I will follow your interesting postings.
I will follow your interesting postings.
Hi
I have no idea what click baiting is and the building of aircraft was in factories in this country and Europe, not my own aircraft. I've always had an inkling in building a plane since I was on Sandown Airport back in the 80s building a training aircraft for, I can't remember who, at lunchtime I used to go to a little hanger across the airfield where some fellers were rebuilding a Spitfire. I thought, at the time, they have forgotten more about building aircraft than I knew. When you get older you realise every single day you learn a bit more until you die and that is the only time you stop learning.
It doesn't matter if you are building a plane a submarine or motorbike, if you can build one you can build them all and within reason the only thing that changes is the size and type of fasteners.
Hi Tobes, I hope we are not confusing NWN , between Calor lites and Gas Lights.
Calor lites, are being discontinued but can be swopped for a 6kg Propane, which I think are about £30 as opp to a GasLight at £33.50 plus a £4.75 Volatility Charge. . I will stay with Calor for my usage of 2 X 6 kg per year.
We ar eon our second Safefill bottle in 10 years. I first one was a 10kg bottle but we had to sell it has the fit into the locker of the Buccaneer caravan was too tight and also awkward.
We have not experienced any fault or with refilling themissues with either bottle, but I can understand your take on people commenting about items that they have never tested, used or even seen.
Then again, as so often in my profession, I, my team and later as a consultant had to evaluate what equipment was selected for our products and my clients.
We, they, can't physically nor financially purchased every option out there so undertake varying depths of analysis. Many items I can assure you don't need much consideration to realise they are substandard, both in themselves and relative to their competitors.
It is quite nonsense to suggest you have to own, used or have physically tested something to hold a very valid opinion of it, its quality or have adequately research its reliability.
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The key issue is that the bottle has to be designed to withstand the pressure of whatever is stored in it, as Prof said propane bottles run at a much higher vapour pressure internally, which is why propane works in the cold and butane does not. UK automotive LPG is majority propane and I would assume a Safefill is designed to withstand 100% propane vapour pressure given that the suppliers are at liberty to provide whatever lpg mix they want. Not necessarily the case for a butane cylinder. It’s the possibility of an unregulated high pressure connection from 100% propane into the butane cylinder that would be the worry,
Steve
You most certainly do not need to have owned, touched or used every item to have know whether it's capable of doing what it's claimed to do.
In many cases a patently obvious, based on scientific or engineering, principles or experience to know it's got inflated or misguided claims of attributes in the marketing hype, a product looking for a gullible buyer often at an exhorbitant price.
As Parksy has very eloquently pointed out, there are several members of the forum who do have a wealth of very relevant experience gained as professionals in the field. But unless you know them personally you will not necessarily know who they are and what their experience/qualifications are, which is why you shouldn't accept everything you see on the forum is correct.
The forum is an opportunity to discuss issues, ask questions provide answers and to some extent debate, caravanning topics. From time to time trolls have deliberately attempted to cause discord on the forum, but normally they are identified and their access is removed.
Read and follow the forum's rules. Stick to facts, and avoid making defamatory unsubstantiated remarks about individuals or groups. And there shouldn't be a fuss.
In many cases a patently obvious, based on scientific or engineering, principles or experience to know it's got inflated or misguided claims of attributes in the marketing hype, a product looking for a gullible buyer often at an exhorbitant price.
As Parksy has very eloquently pointed out, there are several members of the forum who do have a wealth of very relevant experience gained as professionals in the field. But unless you know them personally you will not necessarily know who they are and what their experience/qualifications are, which is why you shouldn't accept everything you see on the forum is correct.
The forum is an opportunity to discuss issues, ask questions provide answers and to some extent debate, caravanning topics. From time to time trolls have deliberately attempted to cause discord on the forum, but normally they are identified and their access is removed.
Read and follow the forum's rules. Stick to facts, and avoid making defamatory unsubstantiated remarks about individuals or groups. And there shouldn't be a fuss.
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I was supporting the comments in the above post 114 by JTQ who was commenting on a Grumpy post, that you need to have owned, operated, or physically tested something to be able to hold a valid opinion on it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with using two examples where safety is important and which are in everyday use, but their licences will have been granted by organisations that do not meet Grumpy's criteria.There are numerous other example too in the real world that we live in, but from caravan examples posted in a different thread where main panels of new caravans are failing perhaps the makers 'practical" knowledge isn't doing the job.
It could be that if the "minds" of those charged can get round all the nuances in something as complex, then twigging what these might amount to in a Safefill bottle valve, as was raised here, or even a caravan, might not be too challenging?
Just pointing out the baselessness of claiming you have to own, used etc a product to make a valued comment about it.
Taking a real case, if the research indicated critical components in supplier "Y's" product had those items found to be made of a material highly susceptible to corrosion in the environment of the application, I accept it would be an "opinion" it will corrode for my client, just as historically it always has for everyone else?
To my client, that advice is soundly grounded in "fact", they did not need to use it to find it would also fail for them in short order.
All done with never clapping a physical hand, or even an eye on the product, just researching and quizzing into details of its specification.
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Thank you very much for a REAL WORLD hands on view of something you know something about. I think its best not to put my findings on here when I purchase and test one.
Thanks again
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