Calor Gas - Shortage!

[Beachball]

Yes they do but our local one has had scant supplies for 3-4 months now.

Ouch

 

[Hutch]

Today, I went to local calor gas supplier, a 13 kg propane, came in at £34.50. He had plenty of 7 kg for the caravans. No Calorlites as he is not allowed as he is not a caravan site. ??? But he can order them for me. So gas is available.

 

[otherclive]

Today, I went to local calor gas supplier, a 13 kg propane, came in at £34.50. He had plenty of 7 kg for the caravans. No Calorlites as he is not allowed as he is not a caravan site. ??? But he can order them for me. So gas is available.

Wasn’t it the shortage of bottles that was the problem. So many new leisure vehicles all buying gas for the first time upset the logistic chain. I guess by now it’s getting back to some sort of equilibrium if Calor and Flogas have procured additional bottles. I expect though that prices may go up if the wholesale price of gas stays high for a while. Depends on how far forward Calor and Flogas purchase their bulk gas.

 

[Hutch]

The price of a 13 kg Propane, against a 7 kg , is a big saving, . Depends where your willing to carry it. Caravan , or in the tug.

 

[otherclive]

The price of a 13 kg Propane, against a 7 kg , is a big saving, . Depends where your willing to carry it. Caravan , or in the tug.

I saw one at Whitemead in the front locker stowed vans connected horizontally. Shudder the thought.

 

[Hutch]

I saw one at Whitemead in the front locker stowed vans connected horizontally. Shudder the thought.

Yes, but as long as they dont use it that way. At a push I might carry a 13 kg in the rear foot well with the window open. .

 

[otherclive]

Yes, but as long as they dont use it that way. At a push I might carry a 13 kg in the rear foot well with the window open. .

That’s my point it was being used horizontally amongst all the other mass of junk in the front locker.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The risk with carrying Vapour take off VTO cylinder's horizontally , is if the valve is opened or it gets damaged it will vent Liquefied gas, not vapour, and it can cause cold burns. It will also turn into a very large volume of gas as the liquid vaporises with a massive potential for fire or explosion.

Also allowing the liquefied content to splash around the neck of the bottle and valve, might wash contaminants into the vapour ways which might block burner injectors, or compromise the correct operation of vapour valves.

VTO cylinders should be transported and stored in the correct upright orientation at all times in a secured carrier in a well ventilated purpose designed space.

 

[Buckman]

Wasn’t it the shortage of bottles that was the problem. So many new leisure vehicles all buying gas for the first time upset the logistic chain. I guess by now it’s getting back to some sort of equilibrium if Calor and Flogas have procured additional bottles. I expect though that prices may go up if the wholesale price of gas stays high for a while. Depends on how far forward Calor and Flogas purchase their bulk gas.

It probably would not make economic sense to introduce new bottles into the market at this point to satisfy demand. The suppliers of gas like Calor are probably aware this is a blip.
If they did introduce new bottles in 2 years time there could be an over supply with thousands of bottles in storage and not being used and those bottles have a finite life span.

 

[ProfJohnL]

... I expect though that prices may go up if the wholesale price of gas stays high for a while. Depends on how far forward Calor and Flogas purchase their bulk gas.

There is a significant difference between Bottled gas (LPG) and Natural gas, LPG is a derivative of the oil industry, and yes we have seen prices rising there, but NG seems to be skyrocketing on the markets at the moment - not sure why unless its the countries that have it deciding to squeeze everyone else.

 

[Ern]

The risk with carrying Vapour take off VTO cylinder's horizontally , is if the valve is opened or it gets damaged it will vent Liquefied gas, not vapour, and it can cause cold burns. It will also turn into a very large volume of gas as the liquid vaporises with a massive potential for fire or explosion.

Also allowing the liquefied content to splash around the neck of the bottle and valve, might wash contaminants into the vapour ways which might block burner injectors, or compromise the correct operation of vapour valves.

VTO cylinders should be transported and stored in the correct upright orientation at all times in a secured carrier in a well ventilated purpose designed space.

Agree. There are idiots about unaware of the danger. Is it possible though that the bottle seen in a caravan front locker by otherclive was actually a forklift truck bottle? The company I once worked for used to get them borrowed.

 

[Jcloughie]

I once read, and this may well be totally wrong, that forklift trucks, where you see the bottle laid horizontally, use standard bottles by with a totally different take off than used in caravans.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I once read, and this may well be totally wrong, that forklift trucks, where you see the bottle laid horizontally, use standard bottles by with a totally different take off than used in caravans.

Not quite right.

If you used a Vapour Take Off (VTO) cylinder on its side. once the liquified gas volume reduced to below the level of the valve it would no longer deliver Liquified Gas.

Many forklift truck use liquid take off (LTO) which means the the pickup point in the cylinder must always be at the bottom of the cylinder where the liquid is. Lift truck with bottles apparently on there side will have a dip tube inside that will naturally fall to the bottom of the cylinder.

Using LTO cylinders where VTO is expected is very dangerous. It could inject liquid into the installations pipework and appliances rendering the normal gas regulator non functional, allowing some very high pressures to arise in the gas carcase. It could compromise and damage some regulators, valves and control gear, and the appliances would certainly be dangerous and unsafe not to mention Illegal!

 

[Jcloughie]

Not quite right.

If you used a Vapour Take Off (VTO) cylinder on its side. once the liquified gas volume reduced to below the level of the valve it would no longer deliver Liquified Gas.

Many forklift truck use liquid take off (LTO) which means the the pickup point in the cylinder must always be at the bottom of the cylinder where the liquid is. Lift truck with bottles apparently on there side will have a dip tube inside that will naturally fall to the bottom of the cylinder.

Using LTO cylinders where VTO is expected is very dangerous. It could inject liquid into the installations pipework and appliances rendering the normal gas regulator non functional, allowing some very high pressures to arise in the gas carcase. It could compromise and damage some regulators, valves and control gear, and the appliances would certainly be dangerous and unsafe not to mention Illegal!

Thanks, so clearly then (I gather). Specific bottles for forklift use but with a very different method of using the gas or liquid produced.

John

 

[Buckman]

There is a significant difference between Bottled gas (LPG) and Natural gas, LPG is a derivative of the oil industry, and yes we have seen prices rising there, but NG seems to be skyrocketing on the markets at the moment - not sure why unless its the countries that have it deciding to squeeze everyone else.

Does any of our natural gas come from Russia?

 

[otherclive]

Does any of our natural gas come from Russia?

Yes. The BBC link explains, and on Wikipedia there an excellent article on where the EU gets its gas from and the interconnection of pipelines.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business... 1,36% comes from Russia and 21% from Norway)