Caravan design, fittings and safety.

[richard11]

Having recently returned to caravanning after many years away, I have checked out dozens of new caravan models at dealers and shows.
Four things puzzle me about many of the designs now on sale. 1) Why have a wardrobe installed inside a shower room? Nobody wants damp clothes.
2) Why have a toilet bowl positioned so that your feet are in a shower tray?
3) Why are three front windows considered to be a good feature? It can't be a structural thing because certain Sprites have one large window, whereas the Sterling with the same layout but higher quality interior has three. Surely if you are on a site with a good view of the countryside, you want to have a panoramic view unobscured by the pillars and curtains that go with the design. There must be more risk of leaks as well. I would never buy a three window style.
Most importantly. The position of many Microwave ovens in caravans is dangerous. You cannot see into the high level microwaves in many models. It is essential that you can see the plate or package before you attempt to move it. There could be a spillage or the hot contents could be spead to the edges of the plate.
The possibility of scalding - too high to justify putting microwaves high up. How did they ever pass these on Health and safety grounds?
At least if you drop something coming out of a traditional low level oven the reflex is to move your feet out of the way. If you drop a plate of hot food from head height you could cause serious burns/scalds to face, arms, chest, abdomen, groin area, legs and feet.

 

[prjohns]

Totally agree with the microwave defiantly a lethal combination above head and sight. I wonder when Health and Safety will get involved. Probably after a serious accident.

After considering the other issues I would agree.

 

[Parksy]

Caravan design is out of necessity based on a series of compromises Richard.
In our caravan, an Abbey 620, we have a reasonably sized separate end washroom and the walk in shower is at the other side of the washroom to the toilet. The wardrobe is opposite the fixed bed which can cause difficulty because of the narrow space between bed and wardrobe so space is compromised there rather than in the washroom but the clothing is always bone dry.
To accommodate the fixed bed and end washroom the caravan had to be made longer and is heavier, it rides on twin axles so there is a weight and cost penalty both in the purchase price and in the running costs of the heavier towing vehicle needed.
To have a smaller lighter caravan (of which we have owned 5 prior to our current t/a) space for such things as showers and toilet space is severely compromised, remember that there still needs to be sufficient space for the kitchen and lounge areas which is why many caravans incorporate the toilet and shower into one small area away from the kitchen and living space.
I'd agree that microwaves are poorly positioned and potentially dangerous, this is beginning to be addressed on the latest models where the microwave is lower down.
If I'd known when we chose our caravan that we were going to eventually become commited weekend ralliers who often pitch where there is no ehu I doubt if I would have opted for a microwave which we rarely use, I'd have happily swapped it for a pre installed solar panel!
When we do use the microwave we (more often me) use a small lightweight plastic step which elevates us to a safer position.

I personally prefer the three front windows having owned an ABI Viceroy years ago which had one large front window. On hotter days the larger window meant that we were sometimes uncomfortably warm when sitting inside the caravan. With the triple window it's possible and very easy to open just one or two if needed rather than the 'all or nothing' provided by a single window but e.t.t.o. and you should buy whichever caravan suits your own personal preferences as I did.
Some UK caravans utilise the single window but the preference shown by buyers so far in the UK appears to have been for the triple window design and the risk of leaks might be offset by the cost of replacing a single window in the event of stone damage.

 

[Lutz]

Interesting. Our caravan didn't come with a microwave, but my wife wanted one, so I asked her where to put it. In a flash she said, "at eye level, I don't want to stoop to see what's inside". So in an overhead locker is where it went. On second thoughts, it was a question of either there or below the sink. Without sacrificing the TV on the other side there just wasn't an alternative location between those two levels. Had I installed the microwave below the sink, she would have to bend over to open the door and probably bump into the cupboard on the other side of the aisle in the process. As Parksy says, it's all a compromise.

 

[RickStevens]

Must agree regarding the height of the microwaves. SWMBO, for want of a better phrase is, somewhat vertically challenged, and she cannot see into the microwave in our S6 Pageant Burgundy. Luckily the new van we have ordered, has the microwave at an ideal height for her.

I much prefer the 3 window layout, not just for the option of opening 1 or 2 windows when it gets hot, but also for the fact that we've often been blinded by the sun setting, and the 3 windows means we can just close 1 blind to block it out, and still have plenty of natural light coming through the front, instead of closing one big blind and making it rather dark at the front.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Richard
Good observations. Do you have a particular layout in mind?
After many years of compromises we were finally able to buy the caravan that suited our needs. Prior to owning our own car the caravan had to fit the company car .
Our first requirement was a comfortable fixed double bed closely followed by a decent bathroom. We then wanted parallel front seats with a centre chest of drawers, the kitchen came last. Our microwave is at eye level and does equire extra care when removing hot food. So we ended up with a similar layout to Parksy ,the Bailey Senator Wyoming.
Personally I prefer the triple front windows for their versatility and indeed strength.

Don't be in a rush to mak eyour decision and use this forum for as many questions you may have.

 

[ValA.]

Our caravan has a large front window, and we love it! It makes the van much lighter, and in the hot sun in southern France having the large front window open brings a welcome draught into the van. Apart from the Sprites I think you may struggle to find many with just one window. Bailey did have them on their cheaper ranges at one time - not sure about the current models though. Mind you, we had to have a replacement six foot window made a couple of years ago, and it wasn't cheap!
Our toilet is in the shower cubicle, but as we have never used the shower in this van, I'd rather the shower and the shower tray weren't fitted either! The shower tray cracked and was replaced under warranty, and cracked again shortly afterwards, so was replaced again! It would be much nicer to just have a vinyl floor and not have to worry about the fragile shower tray.
Our wardrobe is opposite the kitchen, and as we have a wider van (2.29 metres) it doesn't restrict access at all and our clothes never get damp.
We also don't have a microwave in our van - but then we don't have a microwave at home either! When I first saw a microwave fitted above eye level I was horrified (especially as my son suffered very nasty scalds as a small child so I've seen the end results of a scalding incident) and immediately wondered how it hadn't been condemned by 'Health and Safety'.
Finding your ideal layout, which doesn't compromise space (or health and safety) isn't easy. We spent a couple of years looking for a new replacement for our van, and in the end decided to keep it as we couldn't find one:
a) as light to tow for a similar layout
b) without an oven
c) without a microwave
Obviously if b) and c) were not fitted in the first place the caravan would immediately be lighter. When we bought our first new caravan in 1994 we were able to choose a basic model, without frills, and the frills could be added as extras. In the case of our first van, the frills included an oven (which we didn't choose to have, even way back then). Now that production line manufacturing is so standardised this is sadly no longer an option - and you get what you pay for, even if you don't want it or never use it!
However, with fuel costs becoming ever higher, perhaps manufacturers will have another look at the weight of vans, and 'trim' the spec, so that the basic model is lighter and can be towed with a smaller-engined, more fuel efficient towcar, and those who want extras can choose to add them when ordering the van.

 

[Lutz]

Obviously if b) and c) were not fitted in the first place the caravan would immediately be lighter.

It would reduce the MIRO, but not necessarily the MTPLM which, after all, is what determines the weight ratio. I have yet to come across a caravan which has a higher MTPLM if fitted with oven and/or microwave, assuming the layout is otherwise identical. Usually such equipment comes out of the payload.

 

[DavidKlyne]

1) Why have a wardrobe installed inside a shower room? Nobody wants damp clothes.
We had two caravans with an end bathroom which included the shower/toilet/wardrobe and the onboard shower was use virtually every day we used the caravan over an eleven year period and we never experienced damp clothes. Providing you make sure the bathroom is ventilated it should not be a problem.

2) Why have a toilet bowl positioned so that your feet are in a shower tray?
Surely that can only be due to lack of overall room in that layout of caravan. Some fixed bed designs do have a corner bathroom where the toilet is located to the back of the shower which makes maximum use of space. You do have a choice.

3) Why are three front windows considered to be a good feature?
We have had this style of caravan in the past but personally prefer the three separate windows as it gives more choice of ventilation.

4) Most importantly. The position of many Microwave ovens in caravans is dangerous.
In use not found that to be a problem. Before we had one we didn't think a microwave was a worthwhile item but have to say we now find it very useful. The beauty of having it in an overhead locker is that it frees up space elsewhere.
David

 

[Mel]

I am seriously vertically challenged so the microwave is always a test of dexterity, however I don't use it to warm liquid in any quantity. I could also live without the shower, but am happy with the bijou wet room as it gives me a lovely fixed bed, a dinette and a lounge on a single axle. Never really thought about the windows.
However on my eldis there is an external electric socket in the battery/hook up compartment. Fantastic. Until you discover that it is behind the hook up connector so you have to unplug the hook up cable to plug anything in then replug in the hook up. Barmy.
mel

 

[Lutz]

My wife is also 'vertically challenged', but what did she marry me for anyway? Besides, she always reckons that I've got asbestos hands.

 

[Parksy]

Both Herself and me are vertically challenged as well, she more so than me and this was a factor for Herself when we chose our caravan.
Coachmans seem to have low worktops which are good for those of us who are not very tall and we considered buying but the the Abbey won in the end for us because it is still practical and useable and the vanity mirrors are at the right height for us, we use a step for the microwave and for Herself our shower is just the ticket.
She hates having to use onsite shower blocks designed with Amazons in mind, mirrors which only show the top of her head and shower heads way out of her reach.
Our end washroom with it's walk in shower complete with the servant who puts the heater on, fetches the water, empties the grey waste and provides total security (guess who?

) is very suitable for Herself, she wouldn't change a thing.
No mater which caravan seats we tried out her feet never touch the floor when she sits upright but the front benches in our Abbey are comfortable and she is always happy to sit with her feet up. The double wardrobe is the right size for us and the length of the bed was never going to be an issue

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi to you all out there. Vertically challenged !!!,now come on and no cheating Stilleto Shoes and Cowboy Boats off. Now that you are all in your stocking feet,what is vertically challenged?. Try 4' 10&1/2" (1.485mtrs).
Can we start a Vertically Challenged Register?.
Never mind:- What's Love Got to do with it,being Vertically Challenged has a lot more to answer for that most designers give a thought towards.
To mention but one,Microwave Ovens at a stupid height and I haven't even started on hotels and urinal bowl positioning.
When outside in the public domain,thank God for McDonalds,KFC & Burger King and the little boys that they cater for.

 

[Parksy]

....................However, with fuel costs becoming ever higher, perhaps manufacturers will have another look at the weight of vans, and 'trim' the spec, so that the basic model is lighter and can be towed with a smaller-engined, more fuel efficient towcar, and those who want extras can choose to add them when ordering the van.

I haven't seen one yet but from what I've been reading in the May edition of Practical Caravan Magazine (First Look Bailey Orion 400-2 page 69) Bailey have gone some way toward addressing the heavy caravans and high fuel prices issue with their back to basics approach introduced with the Orion range.

 

[Mel]

Hi to you all out there. Vertically challenged !!!,now come on and no cheating Stilleto Shoes and Cowboy Boats off. Now that you are all in your stocking feet,what is vertically challenged?. Try 4' 10&1/2" (1.485mtrs).
Can we start a Vertically Challenged Register?.
Never mind:- What's Love Got to do with it,being Vertically Challenged has a lot more to answer for that most designers give a thought towards.
To mention but one,Microwave Ovens at a stupid height and I haven't even started on hotels and urinal bowl positioning.
When outside in the public domain,thank God for McDonalds,KFC & Burger King and the little boys that they cater for.

You win. I tower over you by half an inch. Fortunately I don't stand to pee, although my feet may not touch the ground when seated.

mel