Caravan gross weight.

[Lutz]

I cannot recall of hearing about any caravan manufactured in the UK being subject to a recall for safety reasons. Recalls generally happen if there is an issue with the design or build i.e. heating issue or water leaking through a sky light but certainly not for safety. How would any manufacture trace a caravan that ahs been sold on?

I thought that I had explained that. Knowing over what time period defective caravans were built the manufacturer will have a record of the VIN numbers involved. He will also have a record of which VIN went to which dealer. He can then approach the respective dealer. If that dealer has no direct knowledge of who the current owner is and as the dealer probably carried out the CRIS registration in the first place, he could approach CRIS to assist in establishing current ownership. It shouldn't be an impossible task.

Although I don't know whether Bailey ever did a recall, but I could imagine that the issue of their caravans losing wheels a couple of years ago could have justified carrying out a recall.

 

[Buckman]

I cannot recall of hearing about any caravan manufactured in the UK being subject to a recall for safety reasons. Recalls generally happen if there is an issue with the design or build i.e. heating issue or water leaking through a sky light but certainly not for safety. How would any manufacture trace a caravan that ahs been sold on?

I thought that I had explained that. Knowing over what time period defective caravans were built the manufacturer will have a record of the VIN numbers involved. He will also have a record of which VIN went to which dealer. He can then approach the respective dealer. If that dealer has no direct knowledge of who the current owner is and as the dealer probably carried out the CRIS registration in the first place, he could approach CRIS to assist in establishing current ownership. It shouldn't be an impossible task.

Although I don't know whether Bailey ever did a recall, but I could imagine that the issue of their caravans losing wheels a couple of years ago could have justified carrying out a recall.

Sadly it does not work that way although a good suggestion and which I along with many others wish it was implemented. There is no requirement to CRIS register even a brand new caravan in the UK as CRIS has no legal standing. Many people do not bother with CRIS registration so if the caravan is sold on second hand through a dealer or privately, no need to CRIS registration.
I don't think Bailey issued a recall as they stated that it was up to the customer to check the torque on the wheels after 50 miles. That was their get out clause and you had to claim off the insurance for any damage if you lost a wheel.

 

[Lutz]

I did only suggest that the dealer has the opportunity to contact CRIS to assist in establishing the current owner. If CRIS registration was not carried out, the only option would be to try to create a chain of owners until one can locate the current one. Of course, that would involve a lot of homework and I suspect that the cost and effort involved in such a case would probably not be justifiable. Moreover, caravan manufacturers are probably anxious not to create a precedence of possible recall action. That's probably why recalls for caravans are not done, at least not as a matter of course, but the procedure would be there if needed.

I do, however, think that we are being carried a bit off track from the original topic of this thread in the meantime.

 

[otherclive]

Lutz, caravans in the UK are not subject to recalls like vehicles and there is no national database for caravans. Manufacturers will be aware of the contact details for the first owner and after that it is not their problem.
I would think that all UK manufactured caravans are on an ALKO chassis as far as I am aware and that the chassis will have the ID number stamped on it before delivery to the manufacturer.
When the caravan body is added at every stage there should be a plate with the chassis ID number on it fitted, but we all know that this does not happen in the caravan industry which is why the sticker on the body has a CRIS number.
BTW interesting conversation!

Caravans can be subject to a recall, the same as any item sold, whether it is a vehicle or not, especially if user safety is at stake. The manufacturer will always have a record of which caravan with which VIN went to which dealer. The dealer would then have the task of locating the customer, again using the VIN as a method to ensure traceability.
Not all caravans are built on complete chassis. I am told that some caravan manufacturers build their own chassis from components supplied by AlKo and the suchlike, in which case there will not be a Stage 1 build and consequently no chassis number.
If a caravan manufacturer changes the source of the chassis that he uses he will only be able establish the actual breakpoint by the VIN. That just shows the importance of the VIN.

I cannot recall of hearing about any caravan manufactured in the UK being subject to a recall for safety reasons. Recalls generally happen if there is an issue with the design or build i.e. heating issue or water leaking through a sky light but certainly not for safety. How would any manufacture trace a caravan that ahs been sold on?

I’ve never known of a recall because of a design or build issue as described above. If they cannot do it for safety why would they do it fir leaks? My last two vans have had three new panels between them and although the faults were well known the makers didn’t issue any kind of recall. It was found via damp checks and visual inspection at service time. If they did recall for such issues their parking lots would be overflowing!

Any serious safety issue would have to be dealt with in the same manner as other goods. Adverts in the press a la Hotpoint dryers plus a campaign via caravan service workshops / engineers etc.

 

[Simple_Life]

Well I did say on the other forum they didn't understand the reply from the NTTA, now they have had another.

Basicly saying what I've been saying
That
Manufacturers sticker at the door must be complied with.

 

[Dustydog]

Lutz, caravans in the UK are not subject to recalls like vehicles and there is no national database for caravans. Manufacturers will be aware of the contact details for the first owner and after that it is not their problem.
I would think that all UK manufactured caravans are on an ALKO chassis as far as I am aware and that the chassis will have the ID number stamped on it before delivery to the manufacturer.
When the caravan body is added at every stage there should be a plate with the chassis ID number on it fitted, but we all know that this does not happen in the caravan industry which is why the sticker on the body has a CRIS number.
BTW interesting conversation!

Caravans can be subject to a recall, the same as any item sold, whether it is a vehicle or not, especially if user safety is at stake. The manufacturer will always have a record of which caravan with which VIN went to which dealer. The dealer would then have the task of locating the customer, again using the VIN as a method to ensure traceability.
Not all caravans are built on complete chassis. I am told that some caravan manufacturers build their own chassis from components supplied by AlKo and the suchlike, in which case there will not be a Stage 1 build and consequently no chassis number.
If a caravan manufacturer changes the source of the chassis that he uses he will only be able establish the actual breakpoint by the VIN. That just shows the importance of the VIN.

I cannot recall of hearing about any caravan manufactured in the UK being subject to a recall for safety reasons. Recalls generally happen if there is an issue with the design or build i.e. heating issue or water leaking through a sky light but certainly not for safety. How would any manufacture trace a caravan that ahs been sold on?

Bailey did a few years ago. Their units were losing wheels. A change in the nuts / bolts and torques. It does happen.

 

[Lutz]

Well I did say on the other forum they didn't understand the reply from the NTTA, now they have had another.

Basicly saying what I've been saying
That
Manufacturers sticker at the door must be complied with.

It would be something completely new that a sticker that is totally superfluous and for which there are no provisions in any legislation, must be complied with. The existing statutory plate fulfils all requirements, both Construction and Use-wise and for the purpose of vehicle approval. Besides, if such a sticker served any mandatory function it would be required for all trailers, because the law does not recognise any exception for caravans. Therefore, for what reason should it have any documentary value? The replies that have been posted in that other forum are far from conclusive and I congratulate the original poster for his perseverance until the issue is finally settled.

Those that have stated that the sticker by the door must be complied with have also agreed that the MTPLM on that sticker must be the same as on the statutory plate. There would not be an issue if this were so, but they are obviously unaware that this is not the case.

 

[Simple_Life]

Well I did say on the other forum they didn't understand the reply from the NTTA, now they have had another.

Basicly saying what I've been saying
That
Manufacturers sticker at the door must be complied with.

It would be something completely new that a sticker that is totally superfluous and for which there are no provisions in any legislation, must be complied with. The existing statutory plate fulfils all requirements, both Construction and Use-wise and for the purpose of vehicle approval. Besides, if such a sticker served any mandatory function it would be required for all trailers, because the law does not recognise any exception for caravans. Therefore, for what reason should it have any documentary value? The replies that have been posted in that other forum are far from conclusive and I congratulate the original poster for his perseverance until the issue is finally settled.

Those that have stated that the sticker by the door must be complied with have also agreed that the MTPLM on that sticker must be the same as on the statutory plate. There would not be an issue if this were so, but they are obviously unaware that this is not the case.

The law does make provision for caravans, an example of just a few,
width to height, length, over hang, down plating.

Lets discuss a different weight, that of evidence re door sticker/plate applied by manufacturers.

3 links on this thread all saying the same

Bailey caravans response saying the same

NTTA saying the same, twice!

Enforcement officers from ALL UK regions saying the same.

My little self saying the same.

Comment Removed by Moderator

Make your own mind up folks.

I say follow the door stickers MTPLM.

Merry Christmas.

 

[otherclive]

Well I did say on the other forum they didn't understand the reply from the NTTA, now they have had another.

Basicly saying what I've been saying
That
Manufacturers sticker at the door must be complied with.

It would be something completely new that a sticker that is totally superfluous and for which there are no provisions in any legislation, must be complied with. The existing statutory plate fulfils all requirements, both Construction and Use-wise and for the purpose of vehicle approval. Besides, if such a sticker served any mandatory function it would be required for all trailers, because the law does not recognise any exception for caravans. Therefore, for what reason should it have any documentary value? The replies that have been posted in that other forum are far from conclusive and I congratulate the original poster for his perseverance until the issue is finally settled.

Those that have stated that the sticker by the door must be complied with have also agreed that the MTPLM on that sticker must be the same as on the statutory plate. There would not be an issue if this were so, but they are obviously unaware that this is not the case.

The law does make provision for caravans, an example of just a few,
width to height, length, over hang, down plating.

Lets discuss a different weight, that of evidence re door sticker/plate applied by manufacturers.

3 links on this thread all saying the same

Bailey caravans response saying the same

NTTA saying the same, twice!

Enforcement officers from ALL UK regions saying the same.

My little self saying the same.

Those not saying this, old men spending their retirement getting confused on a forum.

Make your own mind up folks.

I say follow the door stickers MTPLM.

Merry Christmas.

Mines faded and unreadable. What should I do?

 

[Craigyoung]

Well I did say on the other forum they didn't understand the reply from the NTTA, now they have had another.

Basicly saying what I've been saying
That
Manufacturers sticker at the door must be complied with.

It would be something completely new that a sticker that is totally superfluous and for which there are no provisions in any legislation, must be complied with. The existing statutory plate fulfils all requirements, both Construction and Use-wise and for the purpose of vehicle approval. Besides, if such a sticker served any mandatory function it would be required for all trailers, because the law does not recognise any exception for caravans. Therefore, for what reason should it have any documentary value? The replies that have been posted in that other forum are far from conclusive and I congratulate the original poster for his perseverance until the issue is finally settled.

Those that have stated that the sticker by the door must be complied with have also agreed that the MTPLM on that sticker must be the same as on the statutory plate. There would not be an issue if this were so, but they are obviously unaware that this is not the case.

The law does make provision for caravans, an example of just a few,
width to height, length, over hang, down plating.

Lets discuss a different weight, that of evidence re door sticker/plate applied by manufacturers.

3 links on this thread all saying the same

Bailey caravans response saying the same

NTTA saying the same, twice!

Enforcement officers from ALL UK regions saying the same.

My little self saying the same.

Those not saying this, old men spending their retirement getting confused on a forum.

Make your own mind up folks.

I say follow the door stickers MTPLM.

Merry Christmas.

Mines faded and unreadable. What should I do?

Start from the beginning again !!

 

[Parksy]

Lets discuss a different weight, that of evidence re door sticker/plate applied by manufacturers.

3 links on this thread all saying the same

Bailey caravans response saying the same

NTTA saying the same, twice!

Enforcement officers from ALL UK regions saying the same.

My little self saying the same.

Comment Removed by Moderator

Make your own mind up folks.

I say follow the door stickers MTPLM.

Merry Christmas.

I've been reading this thread complete with lengthy previous posts quoted and I'm no wiser but above is a ''quote'' which contains a moderators warning from me.
Please avoid submitting personal jibes or antagonistic comments because the next time the entire post will be removed rather than edited by me.

 

[Lutz]

The law does make provision for caravans, an example of just a few,
width to height, length, over hang, down plating.

Lets discuss a different weight, that of evidence re door sticker/plate applied by manufacturers.

3 links on this thread all saying the same

Bailey caravans response saying the same

NTTA saying the same, twice!

Enforcement officers from ALL UK regions saying the same.

My little self saying the same.

Comment Removed by Moderator

Make your own mind up folks.

I say follow the door stickers MTPLM.

Merry Christmas.

We are talking about statutory plates here, nothing else and there are no special provisions in that respect relating to caravans.

Let's face it, the figure that is shown on the NCC sticker next to the door is arrived at by adding the minimum payload according to BS EN 1645-2 (which is an industry standard, not a legal requirement) to the MIRO. That doesn't fulfil the definition of MTPLM, so it can't be the MTPLM even though it may be called that on the sticker.

There is obviously no problem in using the figure on the door sticker because it will never be higher than the type approved MTPLM, so one will always be on the safe side, but one will most likely be unnecessarily reducing the possible maximum payload compared with what the manufacturer has had type approved and documented in the Certificate of Conformity.

The statutory plate is basically just an abridged version of the Certificate of Conformity and only serves the purpose of displaying pertinent data, thereby avoiding the owner having to carry the CoC on board the vehicle all the time. In cases of dispute, it will always be the CoC which is definitive, not the plate on the vehicle.

 

[Simple_Life]

Lets discuss a different weight, that of evidence re door sticker/plate applied by manufacturers.

3 links on this thread all saying the same

Bailey caravans response saying the same

NTTA saying the same, twice!

Enforcement officers from ALL UK regions saying the same.

My little self saying the same.

Comment Removed by Moderator

Make your own mind up folks.

I say follow the door stickers MTPLM.

Merry Christmas.

I've been reading this thread complete with lengthy previous posts quoted and I'm no wiser but above is a ''quote'' which contains a moderators warning from me.
Please avoid submitting personal jibes or antagonistic comments because the next time the entire post will be removed rather than edited by me.

Just to be clear, the part of the post didn't contain any jibes at a named poster, nor people within this thread or forum.

I can't add anymore to this thread so once again,

Merry Christmas.

 

[Simple_Life]

Mines faded and unreadable. What should I do?

I would email.the manufacturer and see if you can get a new FREE one.

 

[Lutz]

Mines faded and unreadable. What should I do?

I would email.the manufacturer and see if you can get a new FREE one.

Send them a copy of your Certificate of Conformity with your email so that they can copy the MTPLM shown there just in case they don't have the records readily at hand.

 

[otherclive]

Mines faded and unreadable. What should I do?

I would email.the manufacturer and see if you can get a new FREE one.

Send them a copy of your Certificate of Conformity with your email so that they can copy the MTPLM shown there just in case they don't have the records readily at hand.

The CoC didnt get included with the caravan documents

I will just go with the makers plate in the locker which shows MTPLM, axle etc and since the MTPLM and axle are the same no problems there.

 

[Buckman]

Bailey did a few years ago. Their units were losing wheels. A change in the nuts / bolts and torques. It does happen.

I don't think it was an "official recall" and was done mainly word by mouth i.e. forums. Bailey if I remember correctly never admitted to there being a problem.
If a toy or a foodstuff affects your health or safety a notice is published in the newspapers and also a notice is stuck on the door/window of the trader selling the item.
Neither of the above happened with Bailey.

 

[Dustydog]

Bailey did a few years ago. Their units were losing wheels. A change in the nuts / bolts and torques. It does happen.

I don't think it was an "official recall" and was done mainly word by mouth i.e. forums. Bailey if I remember correctly never admitted to there being a problem.
If a toy or a foodstuff affects your health or safety a notice is published in the newspapers and also a notice is stuck on the door/window of the trader selling the item.
Neither of the above happened with Bailey.

According to this ,Bailey wrote a letter to all caravan owners involved requesting they get the wheels etc checked foc by their dealer. I understand the nuts/ bolts were changed. Not a public recall but what else can we call it?
http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/makes/bailey/unicorn/bailey-issues-further-advice-for-unicorn-owners-$21379911.htm

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm disappointed there have been no more deluges of new postings on this thread. Have we come to an agreement?

 

[Simple_Life]

I'm disappointed there have been no more deluges of new postings on this thread. Have we come to an agreement?

Entrenched :dry:

 

[otherclive]

I'm disappointed there have been no more deluges of new postings on this thread. Have we come to an agreement?

After a day in the Midlands and getting bored with the Brexit news on 2200 bulletins I thought I’d see what’s new on PC. Debate on weight plates has morphed into recalls. Oh well over to the Beefeter for first and final pint.

 

[Dustydog]

I'm disappointed there have been no more deluges of new postings on this thread. Have we come to an agreement?

After a day in the Midlands and getting bored with the Brexit news on 2200 bulletins I thought I’d see what’s new on PC. Debate on weight plates has morphed into recalls. Oh well over to the Beefeter for first and final pint.

In one sentence please will someone set out a cogent answer

 

[Craigyoung]

I'm disappointed there have been no more deluges of new postings on this thread. Have we come to an agreement?

After a day in the Midlands and getting bored with the Brexit news on 2200 bulletins I thought I’d see what’s new on PC. Debate on weight plates has morphed into recalls. Oh well over to the Beefeter for first and final pint.

In one sentence please will someone set out a cogent answer

Or lock it !!!

 

[Buckman]

I'm disappointed there have been no more deluges of new postings on this thread. Have we come to an agreement?

There is no definite answer as none of us are really in the know and until I check our caravan's plates no point in commenting any further as I believe the sticker by the door is not a statutory or mandatory plate.

 

[Simple_Life]

I'm disappointed there have been no more deluges of new postings on this thread. Have we come to an agreement?

There is no definite answer as none of us are really in the know and until I check our caravan's plates no point in commenting any further as I believe the sticker by the door is not a statutory or mandatory plate.

Oooo sorry, but I jumped in on this here there and everywhere because of comments regarding ignoring the door sticker.

I would say always follow the lowest weight, unless you are told by authorities not to.
Not a lot else I can add that I havnt posted before.