For those who've been following,or are interested,it has reached its conclusion on other forum.Go to page 33 and about half way down,read about mr plods phone conversation.
Brasso530 said:
Yes , Brasso I have been following that thread, An interesting outcome from the DVLA.
Brasso530 said:
I do not know which 'other forum' you are referring to!. bearing in mind the nature and importance of the topic, I doubt that actually naming or linking to the relevant page of the would be frowned on by the mods. It's not as if it's a commercial site advertising goods for sale.
ProfJohnL said:
Here you go Prof.
https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/132715-caravan-gross-weight-a-response-from-bailey
Appologise if it's against the rules but as you said it's an important subject.
Mike
P.S. There is a for sale section on the forum
MikeyW said:
Thank you for the link.
Taking a auditors view of the thread, and the information it portrays, all we have is a third party report of a conversation. So if ever anyone was up in court on an driving with out an appropriate licence, and the defence was based on the content of a forum posting, it would be a very sticky wicket.
But having cast that note of caution, the explanation that Plod provides is plausible. However I do fully agree with some other comments that identify the process to identify enforceable weight limits adopted by the caravan industry as unclear and thus unhelpful.
On commercial vehicles the ministry's down trailer plating scheme is well controlled, as each trailer is properly and individually identified registered and recorded in official records. The ministry plates have to be attatchd in a prescribed manner. The authorities can access the details about each trailer with relative ease to verify the displayed plates.
By comparison, here in the UK, whilst caravans should carry a data plate conforming to the EU directives, that includes a 'VIN' the fact the caravan is not officially registered and tested like commercial trailers means actual compliance seems to be hotch potch. In countries where caravans have to be formally registered it may be given more than lip service.
Just as in commercial circles, the down plating of a caravan does answer some issues for users and manufacturers. It makes the product more accesible to a wide customer base. But my biggest gripe with the process for caravans, is the process is not open and clear. Manufactures should not be hiding the facts about it, there is nothing of commercial confidence that should make them be so secretive about it. They should explain the process and how it affects drivers, and what basis in law it relies on.
Perhaps that's the problem! May be there is no case law to validate the process.
Can any one give a lead to any cases where a caravans MTPLM has been contested?
Good Mr Plodd has done a fantastic endeavour with Bailey and the DVLA. , but he outcome is still that there is nothing written down , within Regulations, or law, to state about the placment and legalities of the weights of a caravan.
EH52ARH said:
Not so Hutch,
The weight specifications of a caravan are no different than the weight requirements of any other O2 trailer. The EU directives require the manufacturer to fit the EU VIN plate. What is not clearly stipulated is the necessity or legality of caravan manufacturers MTPLM plate.
Prof under the Goverment info
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-categories-01-02-03-and-04-trailers. See page 5 of 8.
Caravans come under the Special purpose Vehicles, also it a TIN. Trailer Identification Number.
I am not trying to get one up but have been trying to find out why my 2013 Coachman does not have a TIN plate in the gas locker. It seems the caravan manufacturers are governed by all sorts of get out clauses.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-categories-01-02-03-and-04-trailers. See page 5 of 8.
Caravans come under the Special purpose Vehicles, also it a TIN. Trailer Identification Number.
I am not trying to get one up but have been trying to find out why my 2013 Coachman does not have a TIN plate in the gas locker. It seems the caravan manufacturers are governed by all sorts of get out clauses.
[quote="ProfJohnL
Can any one give a lead to any cases where a caravans MTPLM has been contested?[/quote]
Has anyone on the forum been pulled over and had the caravan/car weight checked.
Can any one give a lead to any cases where a caravans MTPLM has been contested?[/quote]
Has anyone on the forum been pulled over and had the caravan/car weight checked.
Hutch
The document you point to is specifically for one off trailers (edit or small production run or imports from outside the EU) hence its title "Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA)"vehicles, the process defined in the doc does not specifically apply to trailers made under a unified type approval such as mass produced caravans.
Whether the identity plate should be called a VIN or TIN is not really relevant. the relevant point is the UK regulations adopt the principle the EU directives on conformance do apply here or for any trailer manufactured for use in the EU (which at today's date still includes the UK), and where a vehicle (Which includes trailers) is produced in a multistage process like caravans, it is the responsibility of the final manufacture to fix the regulation data plate with (VIN OR TIN) to the product.
The missing plate in your caravan does not mean the plate is optional, it could just be an oversight by your manufacturer. What does surprise me is they don't appear to be acknowledging its missing on your van.
Caravans are no different to any other trailer, and they have to conform to the same construction and use regs as far as identification and road going performance is concerned.
The document you point to is specifically for one off trailers (edit or small production run or imports from outside the EU) hence its title "Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA)"vehicles, the process defined in the doc does not specifically apply to trailers made under a unified type approval such as mass produced caravans.
Whether the identity plate should be called a VIN or TIN is not really relevant. the relevant point is the UK regulations adopt the principle the EU directives on conformance do apply here or for any trailer manufactured for use in the EU (which at today's date still includes the UK), and where a vehicle (Which includes trailers) is produced in a multistage process like caravans, it is the responsibility of the final manufacture to fix the regulation data plate with (VIN OR TIN) to the product.
The missing plate in your caravan does not mean the plate is optional, it could just be an oversight by your manufacturer. What does surprise me is they don't appear to be acknowledging its missing on your van.
Caravans are no different to any other trailer, and they have to conform to the same construction and use regs as far as identification and road going performance is concerned.
Isn't the internet amazing.
Times past If the law of the land said this, We complied.
Now because Google can't find it people think it's ok Not to.
Beggers belief
For me it's all very simple.
The manufacturer Construct it. They have the legal right to tell us how to Use it.
Times past If the law of the land said this, We complied.
Now because Google can't find it people think it's ok Not to.
Beggers belief
For me it's all very simple.
The manufacturer Construct it. They have the legal right to tell us how to Use it.
EH52ARH said:
Has anyone on the forum been pulled over and had the caravan/car weight checked.[/quote]
Yes heading east near Ringwood a police motorcyclist overtook me and indicated that I should follow him. Came off the dual carriageway and across and into a DoT testing station. Car, caravan both weighed, axle loads taken too, both car and van checked out for other faults, documents all checked too. Eventually given all okay to leave.
Thank you Clive,
Despite having been pulled over, did the authorities challenge which MTPLM you were using?
Despite having been pulled over, did the authorities challenge which MTPLM you were using?
ProfJohnL said:
No they looked underneath at the axle to determine its load rating and tyre load ratings too. Checked towbar too for noseweight rating. All was okay and within spec.
I think I must have confirmed this activity in 3-4 previous threads.
otherclive said:
The Printed Foil data plate on my tow bar is almost unreadable, as is the one on the Alko hitch ball, I wonder how I would get away with that, i would think a serious look at a modern car and a look at the towball , to see they are not Heath Robinson fits. Might get me away.
EH52ARH said:
Hutch
My MTPLM plate by the door is totally faded and illegible. I keep a new one with my caravan documents that travel in the caravan. Never had a problem with fading on my previous caravans. Shouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to supply a tally plate that has a longer life expectancy. And it’s not that I over wash it.
More often than not you will also find a weight plate which should be readable in the front locker.
Lutz said:
Yes and that’s the one I would always base my loading on. The axle specification and MTPLM both coincide on the locker plate.
Simple_Life said:
Most certainly not!
I do not have time nor choose to constantly spend time searching through other forums, and consequently the details and location of threads elsewhere are not always obvious.
ProfJohnL said:
Checking out other forums can come back with very interesting information,
EDITED[
Ps. Merry Xmas Prof.
Sorry, I apologise.
Parksy
Moderator
Moderators Note
I edited the previous posting in order to remove a barbed comment
Wishing a Merry Christmas at the end of such a comment doesn't make a personal jibe more acceptable
I edited the previous posting in order to remove a barbed comment
Wishing a Merry Christmas at the end of such a comment doesn't make a personal jibe more acceptable
EH52ARH said:
The Prof may post some very informative and good info, but I agree what you said about some of his posts as by the time you finished reading the post you are even more confused!
Thank you Parksy,Parksy said:
But as I did not see the offending comment I do not know what was written.
Whilst I know this is off topic, but as it has just happened, I do wonder why some contributors to this and other forums think it's acceptable to cast personally abusive comments? Is it that anonymity of user names that brings a sender of immunity to them? Would they use the same language and bullying tactics of their full identity were known? Or talking face to face in public?
Unless the writer is particularly adept, the written word is devoid of all the other cues we use when communicating face to face. Intentional humour especially where based on previous correspondence can often be misconstrued, and might illicit the entire opposite reaction from the reader.
Differences of opinion will invariably arise, and that can lead to a healthy debate, but stick to the subject, not the personalities, especially in the technical threads, leave humour and to chit chat, and never even consider demeaning personal statements or cyber bullying tactics. Most of all the world is big enough to allow for many different opinions, sometimes we just have to accept there may be several ways to get from A to B some less direct, but can be more scenic.
Parksy
Moderator
I have nothing informative to add to the caravan weight topic under discussion but I'd like to advise those who are taking an active part that quite often it's better to skim over points that you don't want to read without further comment rather than waste your time adding personal comments that will invariably be edited to remove them .
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