Comments Appreciated

[Val & Frank]

Hello Frank,

*Sarcastic comment edited by Mod2*

Yes you are correct the KW of my car is lighter than the MTPLM of caravan it is 65KG short of the MTPLM.

We do not very often reach the total MTPLM of caravan only when we go to Cornwall for 2 weeks in the summer. I always load it carefully with heavy items over the axles etc. Also by the time me the wife 2 kids, 2 bikes on the roof of the car and other items loaded in the car, the car actually weighs then well over 1750KG. Before you comment back i do know you are only supposed to take the KW of the car which doesnt even include the driver??? I never understand this as a car fully loaded increases the weight & so makes the towcar heavier.

I have been towing for 16 years & this outfit is the most stable outfit i have had. Prior to this i always had single axle caravans.

I always drive sensible never exceeding 60MPH like some people.

Mostly around the 55 mark om motorways

Regards

David

 

[Val & Frank]

I didn't post this to be smart, I am just confused to the reply

Frank

 

[JeremyClarksson]

You are not the only one(two)????

 

[RogerL]

In Towcars, David thinks his Volvo V70 AWD is the bee's knees, even though his towing ratio is over 100%

 

[JeremyClarksson]

I was sure there was something like that in the background but why or how is David posting with Franks forum ID?

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Eureka moment!!!

Frank has posted Davids post here to invite comments

I understand now.

If David is towing over 100% isn't he inviting attention from the police or highways agency (I understand they are particularly keen on this).

I am popping out for a drink tonight with a mate who is a motorway police driver, will ask him and post his view.

I have to admit using MTPLM and unloaded KW my outfit comes to 95% and is very stable.

However I do not think we ever approach the MTPLM and always put heavy stuff in the car.

When picking the van up from storage everything we have bought in the car remains in the car until the destination.

 

[RogerL]

It's not illegal to tow above 100%, in the UK, provided that the total outfit weight is within the towcar's Maximum Train Weight, assuming that both car and trailer are within their own respective maximum weights.

 

[Lutz]

Slight correction here. If he passed his driving test after the 1st January 1997 and he only has a category B and not a category B&E licence, it would be illegal. But then it would be illegal everywhere, not just in the UK.

 

[RogerL]

Yes Lutz, I always forget the "youngsters".

 

[Val & Frank]

Is Insurance not an issue if towing above 100% ratio??.I was under the impression that it may invalidate your insurance.

David I am still new to all this, but I am trying to fully understand what's correct, or what is just good practice. I bought a big 4x4 to ensure I had very near to the 85 % ratio.

Frank

 

[RogerL]

A vehicle is insured to be driven within the limits imposed by the manufacturer. I'm not aware of insurers who impose more restrictive conditions.

Some vehicle can legitimately tow much more than their kerbweight. Early Range-Rovers had towing limits of 4000kg to enable them to pull agricultural trailers and would have been insured to do so.

 

[RogerL]

85% is the RECOMMENDED towing ratio, defined in The Towing Code, produced by the NCC.

Up to vehicle and licence limits, there is no upper LIMIT to the towing ratio, in the UK, but 85% remains the recommended ratio for drivers of all levels of experience.

 

[Val & Frank]

Thank you Roger

Rest my case.

Really don't understand why some people get so upset when not following a recomendation. Now if I was reading this for the first time I would assume to tow at over 100% is fine afterall david does so why does everyone else look to the 85% guideline. Goose and Gander.

Frank & Val

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Frank,

The maximum any vehicle can tow is designated by the vehicle manufacture. The figure is not a simple percentage applied to all vehicles but is derived from a series of tests that evaluate the performance of the vehicle through a range of conditions, which include repeated hill starts, braking and engine cooling - amongst other factors.

The results vary between models, and in some case the MTPLM of the trailer can be less than the kerb weight and in others it can be greater than the kerb weight. Even different versions of the same model will have different trailer MTPLM's.

From the mechanical point of view one other major factors comes into play and that is the gross train weight which must not be exceeded.

Both these figures are based upon factual model specific tests and should be reliable in terms of towing capability, and apply to all type of trailers.

It is incumbent on all drivers to allow for particular features and characteristics of a trailer that may require the capability of the vehicle to be de-rated.

The true characteristic of any out fit cannot be predicted with 100% accuracy, because we all load our vehicles and trailers differently, so to help the Caravan Council and other interested parties undertook a study, which tried to establish the highest common ratio of KW: caravan trailer MTPLM that gave stable results at normal speeds in the UK. They found that 85% was the preferred highest value. But this applies only to caravans; other type of trailer on the same vehicle can have very different results.

Whilsty 85% is a conservative value, in some cases even this is not a good match, and conversely some outfits can be perfectly manageable at over 100%.

Because there is so much variation, you cannot apply a blanket figure which guarantees and acceptable match.

Whilst the mechanical limits are very variable. Technically what you can tow may be determined by the categories you are accredited with on your driving licence.

 

[Lutz]

I would like to add that car manufacturers do not normally distinguish between types of trailer when specifying maximum permissble towloads. Caravans are big and boxy and are therefore more critical when it comes to instability. If the spec allows more than 100%, then it would be foolish to tow a caravan at such a weight although a low loader trailer could still be quite safe.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

"I am popping out for a drink tonight with a mate who is a motorway police driver, will ask him and post his view"

Very straightforward, not interested in towing ratios.

He would only pull any vehicle in if it looked unsafe or illegal or was being driven in a way it shouldn't be (i.e. speeding, weaving through traffic, too close to vehicle in front etc).

He had never pulled a caravan over although he had attended quite a few accidents where outfits had lost control.

If they did pull in an excesively snaking oufit or a "down at the back towcar" it would probably go to the weighbridge with the highways agency where they would sort out the details.

I should point out that Motorway patrol was a secondary function for his car, so anything more than a quick pull would be passed to someone else anyway.

His overall view was common sense really "if it doesn't feel safe don't drive it"

 

[PaulCopaul]

there are two factors to take note of one is the car manufactorers max tow limit the second being the gross train weight exceed either of these and you are in it up to your *****

 

[Lutz]

As far as weights are concerned, there are more than the above two specs to watch:

1.) The maximum permissible GVW of the towcar

2.) The maximum permissible rear axle load of the towcar (theoretically the max front axle load, too, but this is hardly going to be an issue when towing)

3.) The maximum allowable noseweight of both car and caravan.

4.) The tyre load rating of all tyres, especially those on the caravan