To cut a long story short, Bought a NEW caravan from a repretable caravan dealer, But it was not theres to sell as it still had HP on it, I know i should have done a CRIS check on it but with it been NEW i thought it was OK, Anyway im now sueing the trader. The other thing i am thinking of is sueing the storage company too, The van was taken away by a collection company from the secure storage company 18 days before i found out it had gone without no release notes from the courts or any other official paperwork only a few e-mails between the collection people and the storage company which i now know i should not have got. The problem is all the gear in the van was all stacked up at one end and i cant imagine what the condition of the inside of van is like now. I was paying the storage company good money to take reasonable care of the caravan, Surely i must have had some say in the happenings that morning, Anyone had any simular experiences, Thanks in advance
Could i sue?
- Thread starter yorks
- Start date
Yorkie
This is terrible. In view of the complications I suggest you employ a very good solicitor. I assume you have done this theefore seek Counsel from the Solicitor on suing the Storage Company too if they have breached a contractual arrangement. However if it was a stolen caravan I suspect the storage company had no option but to release the caravan.
To late for you I know but it is essential to ascertain good legal title to any car / caravan before purchase. How did the NEW caravan have someone's else's HP on it??
This is terrible. In view of the complications I suggest you employ a very good solicitor. I assume you have done this theefore seek Counsel from the Solicitor on suing the Storage Company too if they have breached a contractual arrangement. However if it was a stolen caravan I suspect the storage company had no option but to release the caravan.
To late for you I know but it is essential to ascertain good legal title to any car / caravan before purchase. How did the NEW caravan have someone's else's HP on it??
If it had HP on it, then someone else must have owned it previously, in which case it wasn't new. The dealer must surely have known that, seems like they can't be that reputable if they sold you a caravan as new which was in fact previously owned. Did they actually state it was new? Was it written down as new on the invoice? I'm guessing that perhaps the previous owner defaulted on the HP payments, so the loan company took back the caravan (which would have been theirs until the loan was paid off anyway, as far as I know). However, I would have thought the storage facility should have got in touch with you when the loan company contacted them. Out of interest, how did the loan company know where the van was stored?
Yes it stated new on the invoice & you could tell it was brand new even down to the toilet in carboard under a seat, Plastic coating still on the windows etc.
A guy wanted to buy it so he had a engineer down to go over it & also a CRIS check thats when it all came to light, The report came back as HP owing on it so i guess he contacted the HP company and bingo, I could kick myself for not doing a check but when you think your buying new, Ive just got a new car from Fords and it never entered my head to get a check done as its a brand new vehicle from a dealer, surely theres no differance?. And apparantly its 1 of 10 so theres another 9 out there.
A guy wanted to buy it so he had a engineer down to go over it & also a CRIS check thats when it all came to light, The report came back as HP owing on it so i guess he contacted the HP company and bingo, I could kick myself for not doing a check but when you think your buying new, Ive just got a new car from Fords and it never entered my head to get a check done as its a brand new vehicle from a dealer, surely theres no differance?. And apparantly its 1 of 10 so theres another 9 out there.
I don't get it, if it was brand new, who had taken the HP out on it? What have the dealers had to say about it (if anything)?
Are you sure that the Cris number was entered correctly when checked?
Have you any correspondence from the finance company?
This seems extremely bizaar to me, are you sure the buyer / engineer are genuine and not carrying out a scam.
However I do hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction........
Good luck.
Chris - Hyde - Cheshire
Have you any correspondence from the finance company?
This seems extremely bizaar to me, are you sure the buyer / engineer are genuine and not carrying out a scam.
However I do hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction........
Good luck.
Chris - Hyde - Cheshire
Something here does not ring true.If it was a proper bona fide Caravan dealer then no matter what they pass clean title to it and it can not be reclaimed by anyone.If there was a previous owner (which it cant have it was new) then their claim is against the dealer and not to reclaim the van ,to do so is in fact theft and should be reported to the police.
If you bought the van on finance from the dealer then contact your finance company as they are jointly and severally liable under the terms of the consumer Credit Act 1973 section 75.
If you did not buy the van on finance from the dealer (which is called connected lending) then did you pay some or all of the cost on your credit card (deposit maybe)if you did and the amount you paid on the card was £100 or more then the credit card company is liable under the same act.
The storage company is also aiding and abetting 'theft' as the van was legally yours if what you say is correct.
If you bought the van on finance from the dealer then contact your finance company as they are jointly and severally liable under the terms of the consumer Credit Act 1973 section 75.
If you did not buy the van on finance from the dealer (which is called connected lending) then did you pay some or all of the cost on your credit card (deposit maybe)if you did and the amount you paid on the card was £100 or more then the credit card company is liable under the same act.
The storage company is also aiding and abetting 'theft' as the van was legally yours if what you say is correct.
You say it is one of ten,do you mean all from the same dealer if so then I guess they were on what is called a stocking loan whereby a finance company funds the stock on the dealers forecourt.This would explain why the van was actually new and as described.
This however still does not negate the clear title passed by the dealer to a customer buying in good faith.I am still not clear on how they knew where the van was stored?
The only way you wouldnot be covered is if the vendor was not a caravan dealer,for example you get car dealers who sell used caravans that they have taken as deposit,these do not always pass clean title and the dealer can not be held responsible for any faults in the van.
I suggest you or your solicitor (are you a member of the big caravan clubs) contact the HP company involved and demand its return or insist they explain how they claim to have title.
This however still does not negate the clear title passed by the dealer to a customer buying in good faith.I am still not clear on how they knew where the van was stored?
The only way you wouldnot be covered is if the vendor was not a caravan dealer,for example you get car dealers who sell used caravans that they have taken as deposit,these do not always pass clean title and the dealer can not be held responsible for any faults in the van.
I suggest you or your solicitor (are you a member of the big caravan clubs) contact the HP company involved and demand its return or insist they explain how they claim to have title.
go and see the dealer. If the van was on some sort of finance by someone else the dealer had no right to sell the van to you.The dealer has to repay your money. Also , the reposession company must allow you to reclaim your belongings as taking them is now theft. If you are unable to contact the repossession company then you have every right to demand compensation from the dealer.
But this is all appear extremely unusual and somethingdoes not ring true. You say you were selling it, so arranged for an engineer to assess the van on the buyers behalf. Do you have the buyers details and address ? Do you have the engineers details and full address.Who gave the engineer access to the caravan?
You need to visit your local police station and report this. I also believe the repo company legally has to remove your possesions from the caravan and advise you that the caravan is being repossesed. They would also need a court order to repossess the caravan as this is the onlyway that they could gain access to the storage site.
This is very, very fishy. Make an appontment to see a Solicitor... urgently. And report this to your local police and your insurers... urgently.
This must be very trying, godo luck.
This could be a cloned caravan, or mistaken for one .they have appeared in a few places.
But this is all appear extremely unusual and somethingdoes not ring true. You say you were selling it, so arranged for an engineer to assess the van on the buyers behalf. Do you have the buyers details and address ? Do you have the engineers details and full address.Who gave the engineer access to the caravan?
You need to visit your local police station and report this. I also believe the repo company legally has to remove your possesions from the caravan and advise you that the caravan is being repossesed. They would also need a court order to repossess the caravan as this is the onlyway that they could gain access to the storage site.
This is very, very fishy. Make an appontment to see a Solicitor... urgently. And report this to your local police and your insurers... urgently.
This must be very trying, godo luck.
This could be a cloned caravan, or mistaken for one .they have appeared in a few places.
Parksy
Moderator
Are you absolutely certain that it was really a 'collection company' that removed the caravan from the storage yard. Is the storage company a member of the Caravan Storage Site Owners Association (CaSSOA)?
Anybody can cobble together a few emails, these prove nothing. If I were you Yorkie I'd contact your local police immediately, a new caravan is a tempting target for thieves.
Anybody can cobble together a few emails, these prove nothing. If I were you Yorkie I'd contact your local police immediately, a new caravan is a tempting target for thieves.
Like others, I think this just sounds 'fishy'. Has it all been to court - and been decided that it wasn't yours - if so, weren't you there to tell your side of the story? If it's not been to court, and if it's only been 're-possessed' after the visit from the 'buyer' and his 'engineer' then it really does sound dodgy. Have you still got any details - have you checked with CRIS yourself, to make sure that what you've been told is the truth?
Like everyone else, I'd recommend you speak to the police yourself. I would have thought (though I've no legal training) that if you bought in good faith, from a reputable dealer, then the fact that the caravan had HP outstanding wouldn't apply - this is surely only on private deals between individuals. The whole thing sounds really dubious to me.
Like everyone else, I'd recommend you speak to the police yourself. I would have thought (though I've no legal training) that if you bought in good faith, from a reputable dealer, then the fact that the caravan had HP outstanding wouldn't apply - this is surely only on private deals between individuals. The whole thing sounds really dubious to me.
Hi Yorkie.
You need to see a solicitor PDQ.
I presume you do have some paperwork stating who and where you got the caravan and it contains the chassis VIN number.
Did you have the caravan dealer deliver the caravan to the storage yard?
To me this smack's of one almighty scam.
Dealer sell's van to you "brand new", perhaps deliver's the van or advises you of the storage yard. Caravan repossessed without a court order and no recipt left for the storage yard to proove who and why they let your caravan out.
All seem's a bit too good to be true.
If I was running the storage yard for example, I would want to know from anyone visiting:- I D, Proof of entitlement, how they found out the caravan was here. Then I would be ringing their office to check eligability and be taking photo's for reference. In the technological world we live in today even your mobile phone has camera, vidieo and voice record facilities. It is so easy to make an evidence file.
You need to see a solicitor PDQ.
I presume you do have some paperwork stating who and where you got the caravan and it contains the chassis VIN number.
Did you have the caravan dealer deliver the caravan to the storage yard?
To me this smack's of one almighty scam.
Dealer sell's van to you "brand new", perhaps deliver's the van or advises you of the storage yard. Caravan repossessed without a court order and no recipt left for the storage yard to proove who and why they let your caravan out.
All seem's a bit too good to be true.
If I was running the storage yard for example, I would want to know from anyone visiting:- I D, Proof of entitlement, how they found out the caravan was here. Then I would be ringing their office to check eligability and be taking photo's for reference. In the technological world we live in today even your mobile phone has camera, vidieo and voice record facilities. It is so easy to make an evidence file.
I refer back to my previous posts,if the van was sold by a caravan dealer then they pass clean title no matter what the background was.I was the carvan finance manager for a very large bank for more years than I care to remember so I do have some knowledge on this subject.
If the story is absolutely true and not a wind up then in view of the seriousness I believe members on here have a right to know the dealer's identity. Forum rules say the name cannot be published but I'd hate another genuine honest customer to lose so much money so soon after what should be a bona fide purchase. One for the Mods to decide.
Have the local or county press been involved??
What part of the UK are we talking about. What make of caravan?
Have the local or county press been involved??
What part of the UK are we talking about. What make of caravan?
I similar thing happened to friend a few years ago with a car, it turned out that someone went to the dealers, noted the VIN number & registration numbers, got HP or a loan on the car & kept the money.
The car was new but had been pre-registered.
My friend bought the car, only to find it missing from his drive about a year later, a repossession company had lifted it at 3:00 in the morning.
After spending a lot of money on legal fees he discovered:
The repossession company didn't need to contact him, their communications were with the person who took out the loan.
He had no recourse to the dealer, who was also innocent & knew nothing about the HP agreement.
The finance company & repossession company don't need a court order, the vehicle belongs to the finance company & they can do what they like with it.
The car was new but had been pre-registered.
My friend bought the car, only to find it missing from his drive about a year later, a repossession company had lifted it at 3:00 in the morning.
After spending a lot of money on legal fees he discovered:
The repossession company didn't need to contact him, their communications were with the person who took out the loan.
He had no recourse to the dealer, who was also innocent & knew nothing about the HP agreement.
The finance company & repossession company don't need a court order, the vehicle belongs to the finance company & they can do what they like with it.
Parksy
Moderator
Dustydog said:If the story is absolutely true and not a wind up then in view of the seriousness I believe members on here have a right to know the dealer's identity. Forum rules say the name cannot be published but I'd hate another genuine honest customer to lose so much money so soon after what should be a bona fide purchase. One for the Mods to decide.
Have the local or county press been involved??
What part of the UK are we talking about. What make of caravan?
The facts are far from clear at the moment DD.
According to what Yorkie has written he has had no paperwork from anybody, least of all a court, to show that the caravan was definitely repossessed rather than stolen in an elaborate scam.
If the caravan can be shown to have been repossessed because of the reason given (the caravan is the subject of a defaulted hire purchase agreement) then when it is explained how a brand new caravan came to be sold without clear title perhaps the dealer who made the mistake could be named.
Yorkie has stated his intention of wanting to 'sue' the dealer and possibly the storage yard. If the facts are as he stated I'm sure that any legal action taken on his behalf must succeed but no actual names except the make of the caravan and general geographic area can appear on this forum until either the matter is decided by a court or the scam is exposed.
I dont know how long ago the car was 'snatched' but certainly it has been law for well in excess of ten years that a car cannot be repossessed off a private drive/property it can only be taken from ' The Queens Highway' to do otherwise is illegal and a possible case of trespass could ensue if any damage was done.
It was within the last 10 years, having been on the other side of this, I had to repossess a car on behalf of my daughter, it was surprisingly easy, all the repossession company wanted was a letter saying that the car was mine & that I authorised them to recover it.plotter said:
As you said, they can only be done for trespass if thay cause damage to the property.
IMO if teh selling dealer made a mistake the refund to Yorkie should be immediate. There's something not quite right here and I suspect we don't have the full story. Definitely one for a good solicitor.Parksy - Moderator said:Dustydog said:If the story is absolutely true and not a wind up then in view of the seriousness I believe members on here have a right to know the dealer's identity. Forum rules say the name cannot be published but I'd hate another genuine honest customer to lose so much money so soon after what should be a bona fide purchase. One for the Mods to decide.
Have the local or county press been involved??
What part of the UK are we talking about. What make of caravan?
The facts are far from clear at the moment DD.
According to what Yorkie has written he has had no paperwork from anybody, least of all a court, to show that the caravan was definitely repossessed rather than stolen in an elaborate scam.
If the caravan can be shown to have been repossessed because of the reason given (the caravan is the subject of a defaulted hire purchase agreement) then when it is explained how a brand new caravan came to be sold without clear title perhaps the dealer who made the mistake could be named.
Yorkie has stated his intention of wanting to 'sue' the dealer and possibly the storage yard. If the facts are as he stated I'm sure that any legal action taken on his behalf must succeed but no actual names except the make of the caravan and general geographic area can appear on this forum until either the matter is decided by a court or the scam is exposed.
No doubt Yorkie will tell us how things progress??
Parksy
Moderator
I certainly hope that he is refunded one way or another depending on what actually happened. I can't help thinking that the dealer may not be aware of this development and an elaborate theft has been carried out. I hope that Yorkie has an insurance policy, he ought to let the insurers know what happened.
hi all
on the face of it "to use the OP words to cut a long story short" all the facts are not to hand but it smells of a elaborate swindle or con trick or a hoax only time will tell. the reasons I say this is with a great deal of suspicion on having been on the receiving end of reposessions after the miners strike. things just dont happen that way its just too slick and smooth to be true??.
look at it this way "from what we know"
van bought new from dealer but we dont know what the said dealers responce was.
how was the van paid for cash or by HP (if by HP then yorkies finance company have an interest)
was the van insured (if so the insurance company have an interest)
how old is the van (we only know it was new when bought) but not how long ago
the van must have been for sale. ( so how was the buyer contacted and how was accsess to the storage arranged as you can not just go in and poke around)
and lastly it must have been a while ago as action has been started against the dealer so it was not done yesterday and the van will be long gone by now including all the kit inside.
if this was a genuine repossesion which I doubt very much I would be more worried about the knock on the door when the bailiffs arrive for the rest of the money after the sale of the van did not cover the outstanding debt.
like I said been there,
colin
on the face of it "to use the OP words to cut a long story short" all the facts are not to hand but it smells of a elaborate swindle or con trick or a hoax only time will tell. the reasons I say this is with a great deal of suspicion on having been on the receiving end of reposessions after the miners strike. things just dont happen that way its just too slick and smooth to be true??.
look at it this way "from what we know"
van bought new from dealer but we dont know what the said dealers responce was.
how was the van paid for cash or by HP (if by HP then yorkies finance company have an interest)
was the van insured (if so the insurance company have an interest)
how old is the van (we only know it was new when bought) but not how long ago
the van must have been for sale. ( so how was the buyer contacted and how was accsess to the storage arranged as you can not just go in and poke around)
and lastly it must have been a while ago as action has been started against the dealer so it was not done yesterday and the van will be long gone by now including all the kit inside.
if this was a genuine repossesion which I doubt very much I would be more worried about the knock on the door when the bailiffs arrive for the rest of the money after the sale of the van did not cover the outstanding debt.
like I said been there,
colin
If there is any door knocking it will be the door of the person who took out the original HP or loan.colin-yorkshire said:
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