Dead as a Dodo!

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Mar 14, 2005
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If the alternator is shot, does anyone know if fitting a new battery will allow us to travel the 50 miles home even though the battery is not being charged? ...
I don't think it would be wise to try this. You don't know what has caused the battery to be fully discharged, and how quickly it managed it. Even if it simply the charging system has failed, modern cars have so many systems that need 12V, 5 to 10 miles might be possible but 50 is definitely in the area of grave uncertainty.

With the hot weather we are being warned of, there will be more load on the 12V system running the cooling fans and other ancillaries and. I'm not sure if you were suggesting towing, but that will also add even more load on the 12V system.

Quite simply without knowing what has caused the problem we can't tell you if a fully charged battery would have enough capacity to run your outfit for 50 miles, but given what we do know I don't think it would sensible to even try it.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I don't think it would be wise to try this. You don't know what has caused the battery to be fully discharged, and how quickly it managed it. Even if it simply the charging system has failed, modern cars have so many systems that need 12V, 5 to 10 miles might be possible but 50 is definitely in the area of grave uncertainty.

With the hot weather we are being warned of, there will be more load on the 12V system running the cooling fans and other ancillaries and. I'm not sure if you were suggesting towing, but that will also add even more load on the 12V system.

Quite simply without knowing what has caused the problem we can't tell you if a fully charged battery would have enough capacity to run your outfit for 50 miles, but given what we do know I don't think it would sensible to even try it.
Thanks we have taken your advice on board and the unit is being uplifted tomorrow.
Using a multimeter directly onto the terminals of the battery, the reading is a total zero which to me indicates that the battery has gone walkabout. I would have thought I would have had a reading of a few volts at the very least.
Replacement alternator on a Jeep is an arm and leg and a few holidays!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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We had a similar problem a few years ago in France, alternator stopped charging the battery, battery gave up, we stopped. We ended up having new alternator and battery, both fitted in France, cost was less than in England at the time, insurance arranged collection of the car, and arranged hire car for us during repair period. Car was LR Discovery, hope you manage to get sorted soon.
 
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Nov 16, 2015
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Surely if you have Mayday recovery then they will take you and the caravan home. If the battery at the terminals are reading nothing at all then it means there is a major problem.
I had a Rover 3.5 which had the battery in the boot, had a problem starting one morning , drove into work but the brakes were very inefficeint, turns out the positive lead from the battery had burnt its way through a brake line but had welded the brake line closed again, took me three days to find it.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Surely if you have Mayday recovery then they will take you and the caravan home. If the battery at the terminals are reading nothing at all then it means there is a major problem.
I had a Rover 3.5 which had the battery in the boot, had a problem starting one morning , drove into work but the brakes were very inefficeint, turns out the positive lead from the battery had burnt its way through a brake line but had welded the brake line closed again, took me three days to find it.
Mayday has already been sorted out to get us home, but there has to be a reason why a battery would suddenly die on you. Although not a car electrician or mechanic, if it was the alternator that packed up, surely there would be a warning light on the dashboard?
As said if alternator went faulty I would have thought that there would have been a reading of at least 1v - 5v on the battery and not absolutely zero. When measuring on the actual battery terminals it is as if there is not a battery in circuit.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Yes I would expect some voltage reading at the battery, this is going to be interesting when you find out what the problem is.
Good luck.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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Batteries can fail quickly and catastrophically.

Remember my caravan battey!

1658048096859.jpeg

Not the battery you want under the drivers seat!


However, even looking like that, it was still kicking out 12 volts. ;)


John
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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Waiting for Green Flag to collect us at 11.02am. Just got a text to say it will now be 11.55am. They had 24 hours notice of the collection! Yesterday it took them nearly 3 hours although it was supposed to be a priority call! :mad:
 
May 7, 2012
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Mayday has already been sorted out to get us home, but there has to be a reason why a battery would suddenly die on you. Although not a car electrician or mechanic, if it was the alternator that packed up, surely there would be a warning light on the dashboard?
As said if alternator went faulty I would have thought that there would have been a reading of at least 1v - 5v on the battery and not absolutely zero. When measuring on the actual battery terminals it is as if there is not a battery in circuit.
I have had the alternator pack up on me some years back. I had no warning at all until the car would not start. I cannot see anything in the warning system on subsequent cars that would show up the problem
.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I have had the alternator pack up on me some years back. I had no warning at all until the car would not start. I cannot see anything in the warning system on subsequent cars that would show up the problem
.
We were driving along when the car came to a sudden halt. No power steering and very heavy brakes. Quite frightening to be honest!
The breakdown person who came today to tow the car to the dealership was previously a mechanic by trade so knew the business. He gave it a thorough going over and he agreed with me that there is definitely a short somewhere as it seemed the polarity was reversed. Possibly a dead short in the alternator?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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The breakdown person who came today to tow the car to the dealership was previously a mechanic by trade so knew the business. He gave it a thorough going over and he agreed with me that there is definitely a short somewhere as it seemed the polarity was reversed. Possibly a dead short in the alternator?
That doesn't make sense...

Let's consider what you have told us:-

You were driving when everything stopped working. You could not have started, yet alone driven the car if the there was a reversed polarity situation the car simply would not have worked at all. There is nothing in a car's circuit that could reverse the polarity without human intervention, or some major component failure.

And again if there was a dead short on the electrics, again you could not have started or driven. If there were a dead short the battery or the alternator the power available in the battery would have almost certainly blown some fuses or damaged some wiring.

If there is no visible heat damage to wires or components and no blown fuses, then the load on the battery could not be a dead short, there would have to be some resistance to limit the current to prevent burning or melting of wires etc.

If the battery was not being charged (i.e faulty alternator or voltage regulator) the car might stop eventually, but the battery would still have some voltage and not be totally zero.

Obviously I can't check your vehicle, but if the voltage at the battery terminals is genuinely 0 (zero) volts, even when disconnected from the car, then that points to a seriously damaged battery, but than might be a symptom rather than the cause, so the car does need to be thoroughly checked.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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That doesn't make sense...

Let's consider what you have told us:-

You were driving when everything stopped working. You could not have started, yet alone driven the car if the there was a reversed polarity situation the car simply would not have worked at all. There is nothing in a car's circuit that could reverse the polarity without human intervention, or some major component failure.

And again if there was a dead short on the electrics, again you could not have started or driven. If there were a dead short the battery or the alternator the power available in the battery would have almost certainly blown some fuses or damaged some wiring.

If there is no visible heat damage to wires or components and no blown fuses, then the load on the battery could not be a dead short, there would have to be some resistance to limit the current to prevent burning or melting of wires etc.

If the battery was not being charged (i.e faulty alternator or voltage regulator) the car might stop eventually, but the battery would still have some voltage and not be totally zero.

Obviously I can't check your vehicle, but if the voltage at the battery terminals is genuinely 0 (zero) volts, even when disconnected from the car, then that points to a seriously damaged battery, but than might be a symptom rather than the cause, so the car does need to be thoroughly checked.
Remember I don't have your skills and neither am I not a mechanic or auto electrian by any stretch of the imagination so may have misquoted the mechanic who seemed to know his job.
LOL!
However I do understand polarity and I should have said as if polarity was reversed which would cause a dead short. When he did manage to get the engine running for a brief spell, there was a burning smell and I assume a considerable drain on his battery pack as he switched off the engine immediately.
I am seriously hoping that your last paragraph is the problem as a new alternator is close to £1000 fitted and then there is the cost of a new battery on top, so another £200.
Been a very expensive holiday for us, but life goes on!
 
Nov 16, 2015
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If there is no 12volts at the remote terminals, then possibly the main Fuse, probably about 150 amp, would have blown due to some major short circuit,, positive lead from the battery shorting out some where, just have to trace it all back, good luck.
 
Oct 21, 2020
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Years back, we had a 300tdi Diiscovery.
On arriving at The Black Knowl, Hampshire, the charging light started to glow. I checked battery and alternator output and all seemed well. I used a trickle charger over the 2 week break to keep the charge up on the battery, got home OK so bought a new alternator and fitted it.
Still had the red light flickering so booked it in for diagnostics at a local independent LR garage. He didn't even bother plugging it in but said there was a well known fault with the Disco where the wire from alternator to dash shorted out. Worse case was a dash fire, best case was a trashed alternator..new wire fitted and it gave decent service for a couple more years.
Hope your solution is as easy as a main fuse

Kev
 
Jul 18, 2017
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If there is no 12volts at the remote terminals, then possibly the main Fuse, probably about 150 amp, would have blown due to some major short circuit,, positive lead from the battery shorting out some where, just have to trace it all back, good luck.
Checked directly onto battery terminals and zero reading. No warning from an issue with charging system.
 
Mar 3, 2022
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Recently had the Alternator die on our Volvo while traveling back from Surrey! Mayday came out and quoted us £300 to replace it.
Thought it was a bit steep but agreed to the job being done.
Problem then being they couldn't source the part so got recovered to home address.
Managed to source a brand new Alternator from a company in Plymouth. £125 delivered the very next day.
The Starter Motor & Alternator company.
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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Recently had the Alternator die on our Volvo while traveling back from Surrey! Mayday came out and quoted us £300 to replace it.
Thought it was a bit steep but agreed to the job being done.
Problem then being they couldn't source the part so got recovered to home address.
Managed to source a brand new Alternator from a company in Plymouth. £125 delivered the very next day.
The Starter Motor & Alternator company.
Thanks bookmarked the site in case Jeep come up with really silly prices!
 

Parksy

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Nov 12, 2009
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Everything going off all at the same time and a dead battery suggests a dead short somewhere, maybe in the wiring loom.
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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Everything going off all at the same time and a dead battery suggests a dead short somewhere, maybe in the wiring loom.
Such a sudden cessation of power through a short circuit would almost certainly have some either blown some fuses or have fairly obvious other signs such as smoke or fire. But if it took fuses out, the battery would still have some residual terminal voltage. There is something more subtle going on for Buckman.
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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Such a sudden cessation of power through a short circuit would almost certainly have some either blown some fuses or have fairly obvious other signs such as smoke or fire. But if it took fuses out, the battery would still have some residual terminal voltage. There is something more subtle going on for Buckman.
While searching for alternator issues for Jeep I came across more than one article regarding a worldwide recall for Jeeps 2011-2014 where the diodes in the alternator went faulty and caused the vehicle to come to a sudden halt. A few injuries were reported but no deaths. I keep thinking that we were very lucky it never happened on the M5.

https://mr4x4.com.au/jeep-grand-cherokee-recall-potentially-dodgy-alternator/

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-fiat-chrysler-recall-20170714-story.html

There was never any recall issues in the UK for Jeeps Grand Cherokees. I wonder why as we had the exact symptoms described in the two articles above. I do not know if the petrol Jeep uses a different alternator to the diesel Jeep, but others with the diesel Jeep has experienced the exact same problem?

This issue has the potential to caused deaths if it died on a busy motorway so why no recall in the UK? There are absolutely zero recalls for Jeep built between 2011 and 2014 which seems to be very unusual.

This article also mentions battery drain issues and alternator issues.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/jeep/grand-cherokee/good
 
Nov 11, 2009
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While searching for alternator issues for Jeep I came across more than one article regarding a worldwide recall for Jeeps 2011-2014 where the diodes in the alternator went faulty and caused the vehicle to come to a sudden halt. A few injuries were reported but no deaths. I keep thinking that we were very lucky it never happened on the M5.

https://mr4x4.com.au/jeep-grand-cherokee-recall-potentially-dodgy-alternator/

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-fiat-chrysler-recall-20170714-story.html

There was never any recall issues in the UK for Jeeps Grand Cherokees. I wonder why as we had the exact symptoms described in the two articles above. I do not know if the petrol Jeep uses a different alternator to the diesel Jeep, but others with the diesel Jeep has experienced the exact same problem?

This issue has the potential to caused deaths if it died on a busy motorway so why no recall in the UK? There are absolutely zero recalls for Jeep built between 2011 and 2014 which seems to be very unusual.

This article also mentions battery drain issues and alternator issues.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/jeep/grand-cherokee/good
Daughter had no issues with theirs yesterday. Good job as they were out on forest trails.

C197FE74-963A-4F14-9390-E83ABF1AE1E5.jpeg

The Truedelta reliability website has lots of data. It is US but does take in cars from other countries. Might be worth a look.

 
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Jun 20, 2005
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The mystery here is the zero volts battery.
Initially I thought a battery connection or fuse must have blown.
Will the battery charge up at home?
Are all connections and fuses intact?
I suspect the fault lies within the alternator which may have shorted everything.
There was a time when you could fix the alternator your self , new bearings and diodes etc. Now it is fit a new one at excessive cost🤬
My last port of call would be the ignition switch.

No doubt we will all be enlightened at your expense.🥲
 
Jul 18, 2017
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The mystery here is the zero volts battery.
Initially I thought a battery connection or fuse must have blown.
Will the battery charge up at home?
Are all connections and fuses intact?
I suspect the fault lies within the alternator which may have shorted everything.
There was a time when you could fix the alternator your self , new bearings and diodes etc. Now it is fit a new one at excessive cost🤬
My last port of call would be the ignition switch.

No doubt we will all be enlightened at your expense.🥲
The vehicle was taken to the dealer's yesterday. I am wondering why no recall was ever issued in the UK for the faulty alternators due to potential of a death occurring?
 

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