Dead as a Dodo!

[otherclive]

We’re any Technical Bulletins issued by Jeep wrt the alternator diodes. Sometimes TB s instruct dealerships to make changes when the car is next presented. But they are not official recalls. Several sites list TB for various makes. Here is just one

https://www.tsbsearch.com/Jeep

 

[Dustydog]

There are plenty of examples where VAG for example have issued recalls in the USA but not UK or Europe. 🤬
It’s worth checking the DVLA web site . All UK vehicle recalls are listed.

 

[Buckman]

At the moment the Jeep is in for repair, but we are now seriously contemplating selling it and buying a Landcruiser or similar that is capable to towing our 2000kg caravan.
The next time we may not be so lucky and end up being another statistic if it goes totally dead on a busy motorway especially if overtaking as it comes to a stop very quickly and without any warning.
I am unsure how reliable the newer alternators are as now we are unsure if we can trust the Jeep although we really like it. This is the first breakdown we have had on the Jeep since ownership 4 years ago. Although it will be 10 years old later this year it has only done 73k miles.

 

[JTQ]

At the moment the Jeep is in for repair, but we are now seriously contemplating selling it and buying a Landcruiser or similar that is capable to towing our 2000kg caravan.

IMO, best to wait making any decisions until the cause is clearly identified.

Particularly with aging vehicles electrical faults can happen whatever brand of vehicle.
Here with a dead flat battery the cause has to be some load draining it down* for the battery to show a zero reading, not necessarily an alternator issue, but where the alternator could well be part of the following collateral damage.

* Or a battery bus bar going open circuit.

Edit: Buying a good used LC in itself could be a challenge as few are ever going to be purchased for light domestic duties but to be really "used".

 

[Raywood]

Like JTQ I think at ten years old any make will have problems as things deteriorate. Not sure about the Landcruiser as a choice as it is basic in the extreme and got poor reviews for stability in several tow car tests.

 

[otherclive]

IMO, best to wait making any decisions until the cause is clearly identified.

Particularly with aging vehicles electrical faults can happen whatever brand of vehicle.
Here with a dead flat battery the cause has to be some load draining it down* for the battery to show a zero reading, not necessarily an alternator issue, but where the alternator could well be part of the following collateral damage.

* Or a battery bus bar going open circuit.

Edit: Buying a good used LC in itself could be a challenge as few are ever going to be purchased for light domestic duties but to be really "used".

I looked at a Land Cruiser and in Britain most on offer were used for normal car usage, no towbars and generally in immaculate condition. When I went off roading LCs were rare, although one guy did come over from Holland in his Mums which he had protected in a film redone for every visit. What put me off was that the LCs were gettting just as complex as other vehicles with their suite of electronic systems. Doubtless Toyota have a good reputation for reliability but upkeep costs fir routine servicing were high. So I bought a six month old XC70 in 2010 instead. If I were looking just for towing duties I would veer towards Kia, Hyundai and some VAG vehicles given their generally good reputation and a much wider support base.

 

[otherclive]

Like JTQ I think at ten years old any make will have problems as things deteriorate. Not sure about the Landcruiser as a choice as it is basic in the extreme and got poor reviews for stability in several tow car tests.

Land cruiser “ basic in the extreme”. Which models fit that description other than those used by the UN which are very rare in this country. Or neigh on 20 year old models.


A 12 year old low mileage specimen.

Toyota Land Cruiser 3.0 D-4D LC4 5dr

www.theaa.com

 

[Dustydog]

At the moment the Jeep is in for repair, but we are now seriously contemplating selling it and buying a Landcruiser or similar that is capable to towing our 2000kg caravan.

Beware of going from the frying pan into the fire.
I’d wait and see what the Jeep‘s prognosis is.

If you want to change look to South Korea and the big German VAGs. All well engineered and virtually unbreakable.
Not BMW in case you have to lease / buy the extras🤪

 

[Buckman]

Beware of going from the frying pan into the fire.
I’d wait and see what the Jeep‘s prognosis is.

If you want to change look to South Korea and the big German VAGs. All well engineered and virtually unbreakable.
Not BMW in case you have to lease / buy the extras🤪

None of the South Korean vehicles are matched for the Buccaneer at 2000kg. We bought the Jeep when it was 6 years old and if we decided to buy another vehicle we would prefer maximum age to be about 6 years old.
Unfortunately at 6 years old the Landcruiser would be out of our reach and no interest now in any RR!

 

[Buckman]

I am a bit upset now with the dealership. A month ago we complained to the that they had not resolved the issue with the flat spot, Engine Management Light and that we now had dancing rear lights. An appointment was made at that time for the Jeep to be examined today.
Lunch time I phoned to get an update to be told that it has just gone into teh workshop and they will contact me back in 10-15 minutes. Three hours later I phoned them again for an update to be told this time that as it was a recovery my original appointment was cancelled and the repair has been put on the backburner for them to check when they have the time as the Jeep technician is very busy!
Considering I had an appointment booked nearly a month ago and spoke again with them about the issues 2 weeks ago, I would have expected that they would have looked at the Jeep today. There is the possibility that the faults previously reported may be linked to the current issue.
If at the time they had informed me that there would be a delay as it was a recovery I probably would have accepted it.

 

[otherclive]

I am a bit upset now with the dealership. A month ago we complained to the that they had not resolved the issue with the flat spot, Engine Management Light and that we now had dancing rear lights. An appointment was made at that time for the Jeep to be examined today.
Lunch time I phoned to get an update to be told that it has just gone into teh workshop and they will contact me back in 10-15 minutes. Three hours later I phoned them again for an update to be told this time that as it was a recovery my original appointment was cancelled and the repair has been put on the backburner for them to check when they have the time as the Jeep technician is very busy!
Considering I had an appointment booked nearly a month ago and spoke again with them about the issues 2 weeks ago, I would have expected that they would have looked at the Jeep today. There is the possibility that the faults previously reported may be linked to the current issue.
If at the time they had informed me that there would be a delay as it was a recovery I probably would have accepted it.

The dealership really do sound like one that really don’t give much concern about customer service, saying nothing about their technical competence

 

[Dustydog]

There are some very clever car electronic experts out there. You don’t need to be a main dealer to resolve issues. And they are cheaper and moblie😉
Maybe treat your dealer to this:

 

[Buckman]

In all fairness to the the dealer just before 6pm last night I got a call from the service manager explaining the issue with the car.
He basically told me what I already knew and we agreed that best course of action forward would be to put the battery on charge over night to see if it will hold a charge.
He also suggested that instead of buying a Jeep battery at £500 he would source one for about £164 as either way a battery would be required to move forward to resolve the fault or faults.
Thinking back perhaps the persons who took my earlier calls require training in customer relations. If earlier in the day I had been told that as the car was recovered, there would be a delay before the issue was to be investigated, I would have accepted that however being told it had just gone into the workshop at lunch time and I would be contacted in 10 - 15 minutes and then nothing is not acceptable.

 

[Dustydog]

Customer Relations? Humbug.
I’ve been trying to get my Bus pass renewed for four months with our Council. Thanks to intervention from my MP success . It’s on its way. I had two notes from the Council, note the titles and they are gender neutral😵‍💫😵‍💫

Apprentice Office Support Assistant

Education Transport Entitlement Manager

 

[otherclive]

Customer Relations? Humbug.
I’ve been trying to get my Bus pass renewed for four months with our Council. Thanks to intervention from my MP success . It’s on its way. I had two notes from the Council, note the titles and they are gender neutral😵‍💫😵‍💫

Apprentice Office Support Assistant

Education Transport Entitlement Manager

It clearly got elevated from the bottom rung to the top rung, although the titles are somewhat grand for the role, but all sectors seem have been doing that for some years. Cannot see what your comment re gender neutral is, after all Chief Executive Officer, Polive and Crime Commissioner and even Prime Minister are all gender neutral. I have had numerous posts where the title was gender neutral. I thought it was because I had a vasectomy in the mid 1970s 😂😂😂

 

[Dustydog]

I missed out the gender neutral applied to me . I am addressed as Dear Fred Jones not Mr Mrs etc

 

[Buckman]

As there was significant risk to ourselves due to the vehicle stopping unexpectedly once I find out the actual cause, I think it may be time to contact the DVSA regarding their Vehicle Safety process which is a very interesting read.

 

[Dustydog]

Have you checked the U.K. and other Countries Recall lists for your car on the Government sites.
As an example I found this on the U.K. site.

https://www.vehicle-recall.co.uk/recall/R/2018/189.

Maybe not relevant but gives you an insight.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Before over thinking or reacting to this latest problem, wait until the problem has been full diagnosed, then when you have the details consider if it's worth making more of a fuss than it realistically justifies.

A ten year old car will increasingly be prone to developing faults simply becasue things wear out.

 

[Buckman]

Before over thinking or reacting to this latest problem, wait until the problem has been full diagnosed, then when you have the details consider if it's worth making more of a fuss than it realistically justifies.

A ten year old car will increasingly be prone to developing faults simply becasue things wear out.

I have taken your previous advice which is why I waited until I got an update from the dealership. I have now got an update and they have confirmed that it is the alternator that has gone faulty and is a known fault. The replacement cost is eye watering, but needs to be done!

BTW did you read the earlier links that I posted where it was pointed out that the alternator had a worldwide recall for models 2012 - 2014 except for the UK. Apparently the filure was due to heat issues affecting the diodes inside the alternator. The alternators cannot be repaired and need replacement. Maybe the DVSA considers life to be expendable?

 

[otherclive]

I have taken your previous advice which is why I waited until I got an update from the dealership. I have now got an update and they have confirmed that it is the alternator that has gone faulty and is a known fault. The replacement cost is eye watering, but needs to be done!

BTW did you read the earlier links that I posted where it was pointed out that the alternator had a worldwide recall for models 2012 - 2014 except for the UK. Apparently the filure was due to heat issues affecting the diodes inside the alternator. The alternators cannot be repaired and need replacement. Maybe the DVSA considers life to be expendable?

It’s difficult to understand why there wasn’t a UK recall given there were recalls in other countries. I would also levy criticism at Jeep for not taking an initiative in this country. I had changes made to a Volvo that were not recalls via DVSA but initiated by Volvo under Technical Bulletins and their corporate ethos, yet had they not been installed the car would not have been like yours and stopped dead.

 

[Dustydog]

“The replacement cost is eye watering, but needs to be done!”

Is that for one in a “Jeep” box?

At least you know the problem. Alternators are consumables, like starter motors and tyres. Sadly , as with caravans, manufacturers will try and avoid recalls. Very expensive . Their U.K. market share at that time was probably small so they didn’t bother.
I can’t see what the DVSA can do? I thought they had to be informed by the Manufacturer of an issue? I may be wrong.
On the bright side you will have a car back in good working order🤞🤞and not go down the RR or LC route which may have cost you a fortune.😎😎

 

[Buckman]

“The replacement cost is eye watering, but needs to be done!”

Is that for one in a “Jeep” box?

At least you know the problem. Alternators are consumables, like starter motors and tyres. Sadly , as with caravans, manufacturers will try and avoid recalls. Very expensive . Their U.K. market share at that time was probably small so they didn’t bother.
I can’t see what the DVSA can do? I thought they had to be informed by the Manufacturer of an issue? I may be wrong.
On the bright side you will have a car back in good working order🤞🤞and not go down the RR or LC route which may have cost you a fortune.😎😎

There is a link in the article where the consumer can contact the DVSA. Once the car is returned, I will update the DVSA of the circumstances and the potential of loss of life.

 

[Parksy]

Do you really believe that an alternator failure could have led to a loss of life?
If an engine timing belt or timing chain tensioner failed as you were driving along the effect on the power steering would be exactly the same, it's an unforeseeable event.
Components fail, especially on older vehicles.
If heat blew the alternator diodes, maybe there was no UK recall because Britain is not normally a hot country, and the recent hot weather caused the alternator failure?
It's fortunate that no one was hurt when you lost all power on the motorway, but I doubt if the DVLA would be interested if you as the driver coped with this random incident without injury to yourselves or to any other road user.

 

[Buckman]

Do you really believe that an alternator failure could have led to a loss of life?
If an engine timing belt or timing chain tensioner failed as you were driving along the effect on the power steering would be exactly the same, it's an unforeseeable event.
Components fail, especially on older vehicles.
If heat blew the alternator diodes, maybe there was no UK recall because Britain is not normally a hot country, and the recent hot weather caused the alternator failure?
It's fortunate that no one was hurt when you lost all power on the motorway, but I doubt if the DVLA would be interested if you as the driver coped with this random incident without injury to yourselves or to any other road user.

Thank goodness I was not on the motorway as the car would have come to a quick stop in whatever lane I would have been travelling in as the engine would have acted as a brake. On the motorway more than likely I would have been towing the caravan and if travelling at 55mph and stopping without any warning it could have been serious.

The Jeep Grand Cherokee had recalls for the alternator problem for all countries worldwide and included countries within the EU and that probably includes some countries where it does not get warm.

If I notify the DVSA and they do nothing at least I tried and if someone is injured or even killed due to the failure of the alternator, at least there may be some recourse. If the DVSA do react, someone's life may be saved.