before you ask craig and i worked for years before we had no choice but to give up work. actually craig used to work at castle brom.
jo
jo
OMG. Tony . You are in deep guano, upsetting Jo-anne!!
There's a bloke in my little town who is an alcoholic, bashes women, and is now banned from all the pubs. Sober he's a nice bloke, drunk he's an animal.
His rent is
There's a bloke in my little town who is an alcoholic, bashes women, and is now banned from all the pubs. Sober he's a nice bloke, drunk he's an animal.
His rent is
Andrew said.
"21 Dec 2008 08:04 PM Shady Sadie, Having just read your first post on this thread I hope your business does go bust so you can see what it would be like to live on the dole like the workers at Jaguar and Land Rover not forgeting to mention all their outside suppliers, maybe your outside suppliers could manage fine. Now't as stupid as folk.
Andrew."
Andrew ,
That is below the belt mate. You have to ask yourself whyJLR are in trouble in the first place. If the Government bale everyone out who will pay? There just isn't enough to go round. Also JLR is an Indian firm. Why should we bale them out when they are so cash stinking rich??
As for the dole, I guess we should count ourselves lucky it does exist in this country.
Cheers
Alan
"21 Dec 2008 08:04 PM Shady Sadie, Having just read your first post on this thread I hope your business does go bust so you can see what it would be like to live on the dole like the workers at Jaguar and Land Rover not forgeting to mention all their outside suppliers, maybe your outside suppliers could manage fine. Now't as stupid as folk.
Andrew."
Andrew ,
That is below the belt mate. You have to ask yourself whyJLR are in trouble in the first place. If the Government bale everyone out who will pay? There just isn't enough to go round. Also JLR is an Indian firm. Why should we bale them out when they are so cash stinking rich??
As for the dole, I guess we should count ourselves lucky it does exist in this country.
Cheers
Alan
You have to ask yourself why JLR are in trouble in the first place. If the Government bale everyone out who will pay ???
The Alternative is a Communist style Goverment. The Goverment and Party own everything. We wouldn't have the worry of Social Housing v Private Housing it would ALL be State Owned.
I am amazed at the level of this debate no wonder the country is in such a state. Does no one have any answers to what's gone/going on ???
The Alternative is a Communist style Goverment. The Goverment and Party own everything. We wouldn't have the worry of Social Housing v Private Housing it would ALL be State Owned.
I am amazed at the level of this debate no wonder the country is in such a state. Does no one have any answers to what's gone/going on ???
Gumbo
The Government own one hell of a lot of our banks!!
We tax payers can only sustain so many people on state benefits never mind ailing companies who make products most people don't want .
If JLR improved their products and made them more affordable then I think they will see an upturn.
Steve was right. We need a "Great Britain"
Remember the 1970s slogan " I'M BACKING BRITAIN".
Cheers
Alan
The Government own one hell of a lot of our banks!!
We tax payers can only sustain so many people on state benefits never mind ailing companies who make products most people don't want .
If JLR improved their products and made them more affordable then I think they will see an upturn.
Steve was right. We need a "Great Britain"
Remember the 1970s slogan " I'M BACKING BRITAIN".
Cheers
Alan
We tax payers can only sustain so many people on state benefits never mind ailing companies who make products most people don't want .
That's why Russia failed, they had everyone on state benefits. It didn't matter that they worked in a Tractor Factory the wages at the end of the day came from the State. We can't let JLR go at this time, or mayhem may start across the Country. This could happen any day now, you only need to look within the EU at Greece to see it only needs a catalyst.
The Goverments of the " Free World " have failed us all, but the alternative is everything being State run, which I feel Mandleson and Brown both have a leaning towards.
That's why Russia failed, they had everyone on state benefits. It didn't matter that they worked in a Tractor Factory the wages at the end of the day came from the State. We can't let JLR go at this time, or mayhem may start across the Country. This could happen any day now, you only need to look within the EU at Greece to see it only needs a catalyst.
The Goverments of the " Free World " have failed us all, but the alternative is everything being State run, which I feel Mandleson and Brown both have a leaning towards.
I have a suspicion that if JLR is bailed out, then there will be mayhem all over the UK. Every other Company in trouble will expect the same, or does it only apply to those areas where the Labour Party have the MP's??
One has to look back and ask why Ford decided to sell it off if it was so profitable? Tata only bought it so they could ship the lot to India and build cheapie copies. Bluntly let it go under and use the expertise, if there is any, for something more useful.
One has to look back and ask why Ford decided to sell it off if it was so profitable? Tata only bought it so they could ship the lot to India and build cheapie copies. Bluntly let it go under and use the expertise, if there is any, for something more useful.
SL
Fully agree. Do remember the Labour govenment let the Austin at Longbridge go.
I look back at my first motor bikes, all oil leakers and unreliable and then the the row of Hondas I had in the 70s 250n , 400s. My Suzi GSX 750 from the late 80s was a dream.
What the hell are we still doing wrong???
I want to back Britain but please give me something I can back!!
Cheers
Alan
Fully agree. Do remember the Labour govenment let the Austin at Longbridge go.
I look back at my first motor bikes, all oil leakers and unreliable and then the the row of Hondas I had in the 70s 250n , 400s. My Suzi GSX 750 from the late 80s was a dream.
What the hell are we still doing wrong???
I want to back Britain but please give me something I can back!!
Cheers
Alan
Alan I'm sorry if you feel that my comments were below the belt, but having read Shadie Sadies thread regarding lorry drivers I feel that she only thinks of herself. The oppertunity to save Jag and Land Rover and even possibly Rover was available to our useless goverment, but oh no let it go abroad, let foreign companies benefit instead of keeping it British sorry if I'm being patrionic, but I'm totaly fed up with labour.
Andrew.
Andrew.
Scotch Lad
Ford had to sell it because they needed the cash but if us as tax payers bail it out then I would like a Land Rover Sport as a company car please!!
Lee.C
Ford had to sell it because they needed the cash but if us as tax payers bail it out then I would like a Land Rover Sport as a company car please!!
Lee.C
Hi Andrew,
We have enough problems in this country at the moment without you wishing Sadie's business goes bust. Sorry mate that was just a bit too personal for me . The "Knights etc" thread has nothing to do with this one.
As for labour why not start a new thread. I'll have a lot to say as I am sure others will!
Cheers
Alan
We have enough problems in this country at the moment without you wishing Sadie's business goes bust. Sorry mate that was just a bit too personal for me . The "Knights etc" thread has nothing to do with this one.
As for labour why not start a new thread. I'll have a lot to say as I am sure others will!
Cheers
Alan
This all comes down to which came first, the chicken or the egg.
If we let JLR go to the wall 14,000 JLR staff PLUS the 10,000 who who make the parts go on the dole.
Q. Who is then going to pay the dole money for these people?
A. The tax payer.
Q. If we bail out JLR, where does the money come from?
A. The tax payer.
Would it then be better for all of us to keep all these people in work & paying tax?
I only hope that JLR is kept in this country, as I believe that there is an agreement that keeps them here for only two years !!!
If we let JLR go to the wall 14,000 JLR staff PLUS the 10,000 who who make the parts go on the dole.
Q. Who is then going to pay the dole money for these people?
A. The tax payer.
Q. If we bail out JLR, where does the money come from?
A. The tax payer.
Would it then be better for all of us to keep all these people in work & paying tax?
I only hope that JLR is kept in this country, as I believe that there is an agreement that keeps them here for only two years !!!
Would it then be better for all of us to keep all these people in work & paying tax?
NO They will go on producing vehicles that No One wants. Lame Ducks can't be saved you have to put them down. Sorry but that's the way it is.
NO They will go on producing vehicles that No One wants. Lame Ducks can't be saved you have to put them down. Sorry but that's the way it is.
Gumbo,
My apologies , too much mulled wine dulled the old mince pies.
The deficit was millions, ie
My apologies , too much mulled wine dulled the old mince pies.
The deficit was millions, ie
I see that 30000 Woolies jobs will go and plenty of others in retail, how will those people feel when signing on and getting the 3rd degree over job hunting if the motor industry gets bailed.
LR and Jag are down to Tata now.
LR and Jag are down to Tata now.
What I would like to see is the following.
A total restructure of Jag/Landrover, to produce vehicles for the majority and not the minority of the british public.
A buy locl policy for all the parts for the production line.
Perhaps a workers co-operative to ensure every worker has a focused attitude.
Then perhaps a loan in place to finance this revival.
As for the management. Cap the wages at 100K perannum max and make it results based. Then we should scrap all golden hello's, bonuses and hand shakes.
The only award for poor performance should be the DCM (Don't come monday).
At present there are far too many bosses being rewarded for failure with a fat golden handshake when they depart before being fired.
As a self employed contractor, I'm only paid on results!!
Steve L.
A total restructure of Jag/Landrover, to produce vehicles for the majority and not the minority of the british public.
A buy locl policy for all the parts for the production line.
Perhaps a workers co-operative to ensure every worker has a focused attitude.
Then perhaps a loan in place to finance this revival.
As for the management. Cap the wages at 100K perannum max and make it results based. Then we should scrap all golden hello's, bonuses and hand shakes.
The only award for poor performance should be the DCM (Don't come monday).
At present there are far too many bosses being rewarded for failure with a fat golden handshake when they depart before being fired.
As a self employed contractor, I'm only paid on results!!
Steve L.
"At present there are far too many bosses being rewarded for failure with a fat golden handshake when they depart before being fired"
Bosses lead you can't do without them, or the workers will sit on their butts all day
"The only award for poor performance should be the DCM (Don't come monday)"
Try that with the Trade Unions or even the EU directives
"As a self employed contractor, I'm only paid on results"
May work, but would like to see you negotiate the removal of Pension Provisions from the staff. Remember You are a contractor by Choice.
Just Forget LRJ, let it go don't bother trying to restructure it. To much past baggage to take it forward.
Bosses lead you can't do without them, or the workers will sit on their butts all day
"The only award for poor performance should be the DCM (Don't come monday)"
Try that with the Trade Unions or even the EU directives
"As a self employed contractor, I'm only paid on results"
May work, but would like to see you negotiate the removal of Pension Provisions from the staff. Remember You are a contractor by Choice.
Just Forget LRJ, let it go don't bother trying to restructure it. To much past baggage to take it forward.
While Steve is expressing opinions with which many of us would share, unfortunately in the real world it won't work out like he states.
As a self employed person he ges paid on results, which is true. However, the majority of us are either employees or consultants where we do not necessarily get paid on results, but paid on time expended. In other words we get paid for a 40 hour working week, or whatever. In most of our cases what we do has little bearing on the final results of the Company or enterprise.
Workers cooperatives only work in very limited circumstances, and usually require some external 'force' to keep them going.. I am thinking here of communities such as the Amish who do work in cooperatives, but use their religion as the 'glue'. Even so called 'partnerships' such as John Lewis are anything but. No employee actually owns any part of the Company and can only change the management philosophy in an extremely small way, and usually only then because it is what management wanted to do anyway. Some people think a Trade Union can offer such a way forward, but as we all know they can be even more disastrous than management. We also all know what happened to the cooperatives of the Soviet empire.
As to JLR building cars that the majority want, well, they actually do. They build the style of cars that the market expects them to make. If you want a bog standard box then buy a Ford or Japanese. If you want a sports saloon then the Jaguar is the name that you associate with that type of car. The same argument holds for Landrover. So their customers go to them expecting what they get. Would anyone buy a Landrover that looked like a Mondeo?? What would be the point?
We would all wish for management to get paid salaries equivalent to the shop floor, but in a commercial world that will not happen. If the market rate for the position is
As a self employed person he ges paid on results, which is true. However, the majority of us are either employees or consultants where we do not necessarily get paid on results, but paid on time expended. In other words we get paid for a 40 hour working week, or whatever. In most of our cases what we do has little bearing on the final results of the Company or enterprise.
Workers cooperatives only work in very limited circumstances, and usually require some external 'force' to keep them going.. I am thinking here of communities such as the Amish who do work in cooperatives, but use their religion as the 'glue'. Even so called 'partnerships' such as John Lewis are anything but. No employee actually owns any part of the Company and can only change the management philosophy in an extremely small way, and usually only then because it is what management wanted to do anyway. Some people think a Trade Union can offer such a way forward, but as we all know they can be even more disastrous than management. We also all know what happened to the cooperatives of the Soviet empire.
As to JLR building cars that the majority want, well, they actually do. They build the style of cars that the market expects them to make. If you want a bog standard box then buy a Ford or Japanese. If you want a sports saloon then the Jaguar is the name that you associate with that type of car. The same argument holds for Landrover. So their customers go to them expecting what they get. Would anyone buy a Landrover that looked like a Mondeo?? What would be the point?
We would all wish for management to get paid salaries equivalent to the shop floor, but in a commercial world that will not happen. If the market rate for the position is
Scotch Lad wrote
"As to JLR building cars that the majority want, well, they actually do. They build the style of cars that the market expects them to make. If you want a bog standard box then buy a Ford or Japanese".
Surely if the majority wanted JLR products then JLR would not be in the mess they are. No way would BMW or Ford have sold JLR on if their products attracted the "majority" demand suggested.
Most unfortunately the JLR brands are out of sink with the majority's wallet and will probably not survive. I really don't want my tax wasted on a compay whose products are not easily within the financial reach of the average person.
Cheers
Alan
"As to JLR building cars that the majority want, well, they actually do. They build the style of cars that the market expects them to make. If you want a bog standard box then buy a Ford or Japanese".
Surely if the majority wanted JLR products then JLR would not be in the mess they are. No way would BMW or Ford have sold JLR on if their products attracted the "majority" demand suggested.
Most unfortunately the JLR brands are out of sink with the majority's wallet and will probably not survive. I really don't want my tax wasted on a compay whose products are not easily within the financial reach of the average person.
Cheers
Alan
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