AM is for (mopeds) low power motor cycles, quads etc, but I have Full A, B, BE, B1,C1,C1E, D1, D1E. But no AM and neither does my wife, licence renewed 11/7/12. The mud will settle, maybe
Hutch.
Hutch.
As JonnyG and Hutch rightly says, this is very confusing... 
It looks like Mrs paws is licenced to ride a full motor bike Category A although she has never done so and never taken a test on one (I don't think I'll mention this to her though!!!) :woohoo:
I can't really think this is right, but my motto is to leave sleeping dogs lie, so I'll not suggest she takes it up with the licencing people.
She did have a moped (49cc and with pedals) prior to passing her car test, but this may be bit of a red herring as I think mopeds and small scooters are covered by the basic car licence anyway (subject to various limitations)
The good new is as far as I'm concerned is that she (and me as well, post age 70) are licenced to tow a car caravan combo that doesn't limit her or me to only the smaller lighter models... although having said that our car caravan combo is pretty small anyway!
I decided to take a look at the .Gov website that deals with this sort of thing...... consequently I now need to have a lie down in a quiet darkened room, as I'm now suffering from a very sore head, practically square eyeballs and a strong belief that the good folks who are in charge of these sort of rules and regulations are part of some giant job creation scheme, that are committed to producing information and drafting and enacting/the passing of rules and legislation that is masterly in it's grasp of, and display of obfuscation, and practically guaranteed to be of no earthly use at all to a significant proportion of folks who are seeking enlightenment.
I just hope that Mrs paws doesn't read this as other wise she might be tempted to add to her shopping list a nice second hand Royal Enfield Constellation..... just the job for her, when popping down to the supermarket!
The important thing to remember though is very simple... it's just this:
Happy Caravanning!
Regards to all
paws
It looks like Mrs paws is licenced to ride a full motor bike Category A although she has never done so and never taken a test on one (I don't think I'll mention this to her though!!!) :woohoo:
I can't really think this is right, but my motto is to leave sleeping dogs lie, so I'll not suggest she takes it up with the licencing people.
She did have a moped (49cc and with pedals) prior to passing her car test, but this may be bit of a red herring as I think mopeds and small scooters are covered by the basic car licence anyway (subject to various limitations)
The good new is as far as I'm concerned is that she (and me as well, post age 70) are licenced to tow a car caravan combo that doesn't limit her or me to only the smaller lighter models... although having said that our car caravan combo is pretty small anyway!
I decided to take a look at the .Gov website that deals with this sort of thing...... consequently I now need to have a lie down in a quiet darkened room, as I'm now suffering from a very sore head, practically square eyeballs and a strong belief that the good folks who are in charge of these sort of rules and regulations are part of some giant job creation scheme, that are committed to producing information and drafting and enacting/the passing of rules and legislation that is masterly in it's grasp of, and display of obfuscation, and practically guaranteed to be of no earthly use at all to a significant proportion of folks who are seeking enlightenment.
I just hope that Mrs paws doesn't read this as other wise she might be tempted to add to her shopping list a nice second hand Royal Enfield Constellation..... just the job for her, when popping down to the supermarket!
The important thing to remember though is very simple... it's just this:
Happy Caravanning!
Regards to all
paws
Or a nice old Panther 600 combo, with a Wastonian, side car, plenty of room for the shopping. Had one in the days, you bought bikes one week for 10 Quid and sold it the next for 12 Squid. Being a mere 9 stone then had problems starting the beast. Oh what fun.
Hutch.
Hutch.
There was an item on the radio yesterday about a new document relating to data produced by the Home Office.
Under the heading 'data' it said something to the effect of
"data is data that is not necessarily data...."
My darkened room awaits now as well....................
Under the heading 'data' it said something to the effect of
"data is data that is not necessarily data...."
My darkened room awaits now as well....................
Nice bike ,does he let you ride it ,or do you claim parental rights . I sold my CBR600 2 years ago miss it badly but some of my joints had cried "enough" . my mate said I could have a ride on his Kawasaki 1400 thing , had a look on the web and I might not bother , they are so so quick , and my right hand and brain still have hooligan tendencies . I'm 61 so 9 years to start worrying about what to do with entitlements though , DVLA took a lot of entitlements off me when I had an ICD fitted ,that was all the 7500 kg stuff which I don't need . After Profjohn post I checked my licence again to make sure .EH52ARH said:
Yes he will let me ride it, but I have trouble throwing my leg over the high tail seat. Or anything else when it comes to it. hmy:
hmy:
This is the first time I have read this topic so bear with me for replying so long after it was started, but there is one error regarding Category B licence entitlement in the link provided in the original post.
It states, quote:
1. For those drivers who passed their Practical Car Test between 1st January 1997 and 18th January 2013 inclusive:
i. If the towing vehicle has a MAM of 3500kgs then a trailer of up to 750kgs MAM is permitted
OR
ii. If the towing vehicle has a MAM of less than 3500kgs then a trailer can be towed provided that:
a) the towing vehicle MAM and the trailer MAM combined do not exceed 3500kgs
AND
b) the trailer MAM does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.
Paragraph 1.ii.b is not correct. This limitation that was in effect until the 18th January 2013 was removed retroactively also for Category B licences issued between the 1st January 1997 and 18th January 2013.
It states, quote:
1. For those drivers who passed their Practical Car Test between 1st January 1997 and 18th January 2013 inclusive:
i. If the towing vehicle has a MAM of 3500kgs then a trailer of up to 750kgs MAM is permitted
OR
ii. If the towing vehicle has a MAM of less than 3500kgs then a trailer can be towed provided that:
a) the towing vehicle MAM and the trailer MAM combined do not exceed 3500kgs
AND
b) the trailer MAM does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.
Paragraph 1.ii.b is not correct. This limitation that was in effect until the 18th January 2013 was removed retroactively also for Category B licences issued between the 1st January 1997 and 18th January 2013.
Lutz said:
.... and as it happens I was driving behind a training school that does car trailer training and HGV training , whilst it was driving it had car and trailer & all the categories you can gain on the back and it said if you passed your licence after 97 you could not drive a combination that was in front off me ?
I think it was a Galaxy pulling the trailer now I thought you could up to the certain date like Lutz just said ?
( if I read that right ) :blink:
Craigyoung said:
This matter has been perplexing, because whilst several contributors had suggested the paragraph b had been repealed, I had been unable to find the repealing notice in published Acts Of Parliament. At this day I have still failed to find the relevant act or it's amendments, but I have written to the DLVA and received assurances the part b was repealed.
Even with this discrepancy in the linked information, I still believe the link is valid as it is in my view one of the best interpretations of the act for the general public to read and follow. Importantly, the inaccuracy in the Cat B description does not lead anyone into an illegal situation.
I will contact the author to suggest the article needs to be revised.
I have confirmed with the DVLA that the Post 1997 cat B entitlement has been ammended. It is still the case that where a braked trailer with an MTPLM of more than 750kg is being towed, the combined MAM must not exceed 3500kg, but the requirement for the ULW of the tow vehicle to greater than the trailers MTPLM, has been dropped and is applied retrospectively.
As with any person upgrading or adding to their entitlements , within some prescribed limits they can drive a vehicle for which they do not hold a full licence if they are under instruction of a person with the relevant entitlement.
ProfJohnL said:
There is nothing to repeal. The amendment to Category B entitlement requirements, as laid down in The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 which covered the change, merely details the changes to Category B requirements in general and does not state that these changes only apply to licences issued after 18th January 2013. Consequently the extension applies to all Category B licences, regardless of when issued.
Grandfather rights don't enter into the issue here because they are only there to safeguard less stringent requirements in the past which have become more stringent due to later changes in legislation, but not when a relaxation in requirements is involved, as is the case here.
Besides, the old requirement which referenced the unladen weight of the towing vehicle having to be less than maximum allowable weight of the trailer was almost impossible to enforce anyway because the unladen weight of the towing vehicle is not documented anywhere.
So anybody passing their test after 97 on a normal B car licence who thought they could pull a trailer when they could up until 2o13 when it all changed , now can't .. is that right ?
DVLA has to be one of the most complicated things ever !!
DVLA has to be one of the most complicated things ever !!
Prof,
The latest Road Traffic Act I can find was issued and passed by Parliament in 2015. Various Government authorities subsequently seem to have the power to add amendments or deletions. This Imdon’t understand as I thought an Act of Parliament couldn’t be altered??
The 2015 Act is available on the internet. It’s massive and will take some time to read Good luck B)
The latest Road Traffic Act I can find was issued and passed by Parliament in 2015. Various Government authorities subsequently seem to have the power to add amendments or deletions. This Imdon’t understand as I thought an Act of Parliament couldn’t be altered??
The 2015 Act is available on the internet. It’s massive and will take some time to read
Good luck B)
If you have a UK driving license (not Northern Ireland)...... a National Insurance number and a UK postal address.......then you can check the details that the DVLA hold on you and check what you are currently entitled to drive and tow.
Click here
Click here
Craigyoung said:So anybody passing their test after 97 on a normal B car licence who thought they could pull a trailer when they could up until 2o13 when it all changed , now can't .. is that right ?
DVLA has to be one of the most complicated things ever !!
No, it's the other way round. Those with a pre-2013 Category B licence who thought they couldn't tow a trailer weighing more than the unladen weight of the towcar can now.
Dustydog said:Prof,
The latest Road Traffic Act I can find was issued and passed by Parliament in 2015. Various Government authorities subsequently seem to have the power to add amendments or deletions. This Imdon’t understand as I thought an Act of Parliament couldn’t be altered??
The 2015 Act is available on the internet. It’s massive and will take some time to read
The details regarding driving licence entitlement won't be found in any Road Traffic Act but in the relevant Statutory Instruments (or Secondary Legislation as they call it). Old legislation isn't changed, but later amendments can be issued which delete and replace certain passages of previous legislation.
If you look on the CAMH website they give a summary of what you can drive on your licence. It should have enough detail for you to sort out any problem.
Raywood said:
Ironically the CAMH page I found from their webiste
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/advice-for-beginners/driving-licences/
which contains
Towed outfits: you’re restricted to a combined MAM of 3,500kg and the trailer MAM must not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (85% ratio remains strongly recommended). If this MAM is to be exceeded, an additional E Test pass is required.
This is exactly the matter that Lutz has rasied recently.The advice is not legally correct, But of course if by using the CAHM's interpretation the outfit would not be illegal.
Vehicle and Driving Licences Act
Help Prof.
My research to date says the DVLA edicts are based on law passed by Parliament. Not sure what the latest Act is above. They run through to very recently but then I may be wrong...
Help Prof.
My research to date says the DVLA edicts are based on law passed by Parliament. Not sure what the latest Act is above. They run through to very recently but then I may be wrong...
Dustydog said:
The latest amendment to legislation is contained in The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 but there are other amendments to those regulations virtually every year.
The 2018 amendment is to raise the limit what one may drive on a Category B licence from 3500kg to 4250kg provided the vehicle is propelled by alternative fuel (electricity, hydrogen, natural gas or biogas) and it is not towing a trailer. This change applies only to Great Britain but not Northern Ireland.
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