Driving Licence Entitlements, What Can YOU drive?

[ProfJohnL]

Quite frequently the question of what driving licence entitlements you have is raised, and the usual thing to do is to go to a search engine and look for them. Im most cases the search will direct you to a government web site, and you would hope the information it contains would be correct.
Sadly the information about driving licences has been flawed and particularly in the context of caravanning. I have challenged the web master about this and some changes were made, but then they introduced new small errors or misleading information that can lead the unsuspecting caravanner to be driving illegally.

The problem is the actual underlying legislation is very complex, and in trying to make it compact enough for the web site some of the detail is lost. It is further compounded by the fact the details of what each category allows have changed over time, BUT due to the principle of ‘Acquired Rights’ or ‘Grandfather Rights’. the definition of the categories you were awarded when you passed your test remain applicable to you, and the revised definitions are not retrospective. This leads to considerable confusion about the details of what you can and can't drive.

I started to look at producing a readable guide to Driving licence entitlements, but in the course of my research, I found someone else had already come to the same conclusions and has as far as I can see managed it very well.

I have alluded to the fact it is complex, and consequently it is not a short document, but at least it does seem to allow you to navigate through the necessary details in a realistic manner.

I have no connection to this company or website but do applaud the effort they have made .

Please take your time to read it and draw your own conclusions.

http://www.drivex.co.uk/driving-licence-info/#BE

 

[JamesH]

I read the article via the link given and noted that it said if you passed your driving test pre 1997 you would automatically be entitled to drive cats. BE C1 C1E D1 and D1E. BUT you loose these entitlements at the age of 70.
Even more confusing is the fact that on the one hand you loose the above entitlements at 70 but having checked with the DVLA I find I am still entitled to have BE.
Surprisingly, I am still entitled to drive the largest motor cycle available but I don't think I will take that opportunity up at my age.

 

[Parksy]

Thanks Prof, I've made your post into a sticky so that it can easily be linked to.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Wow Steve I feel privileged Thank you.

I am really impressed with the clarity they have brought to the subject, and I do hope it will prevent some of the mistakes we sometime read about.

 

[JonnyG]

good site although it does make you think,why can it not be all straight forward. having said that i noticed an error of sorts under the driver cpc.... taking periodic training to keep your driver CPC.. it gives a cut off date of 10th September 2009.. to have so called acquired rights to a driver CPC, meaning anyone who passed their C class HGV licence after that day would also need to do 35 hours of class room studies prior to being given their C class.
this was actually put on hold, for how long i do not know but as i passed my C class test on the 17th of September
2009 and did no 35 hours of classroom studies but i was always going to be issued my licence,assuming i passed the driving test ,it does raise the issue that September 10th 2009 was originally the offical date, but it was
clearly changed to a later date..

 

[Hutch]

JamesH, please can you point out for me where it shows about loosing the C1 C1E etc at age 70, I can see on the Gov Uk website that you have to reapply every 3 years,. Help please.
Hutch

 

[JamesH]

EH52ARH. Re your question. I phoned the DVLA at Swansea today.

 

[Hutch]

Thanks JamesH, well I have another 6 years to go. Dont really want to lose any entitlments. Even if I dont use them all. And now my youngest son has me on his insurance for his Triumph Street triple, awsome bike.
Hutch.

 

[ProfJohnL]

good site although it does make you think,why can it not be all straight forward. ....

The complexity arises from a combination of the trying to harmonise the licence systems of all EU members, and the legal precedence of grandfather rights, which means revisions to entitlements cannot be retrospective. This effectively means we are running three possibly four different sets of standards at the same time.

ays going to be issued my licence,assuming i passed the driving test ,it does raise the issue that September 10th 2009 was originally the offical date, but it was clearly changed to a later date..having said that i noticed an error of sorts under the driver cpc.... taking periodic training to keep your driver CPC.. it gives a cut off date of 10th September 2009.. to have so called acquired rights to a driver CPC, meaning anyone who passed their C class HGV licence after that day would also need to do 35 hours of class room studies prior to being given their C class.
this was actually put on hold, for how long i do not know but as i passed my C class test on the 17th of September
2009 and did no 35 hours of classroom studies but i was alw

I suggest if you have a query about its content you actually contact the company directly.

 

[JonnyG]

I read the article via the link given and noted that it said if you passed your driving test pre 1997 you would automatically be entitled to drive cats. BE C1 C1E D1 and D1E. BUT you loose these entitlements at the age of 70.
Even more confusing is the fact that on the one hand you loose the above entitlements at 70 but having checked with the DVLA I find I am still entitled to have BE.
Surprisingly, I am still entitled to drive the largest motor cycle available but I don't think I will take that opportunity up at my age.

from what i can see you loose the entitlements that you didn't actually have to pass a test on.they come as a added bonus to you passing your car test. and getting your B, licence. same applies to a A licence you passed a test to ride a motorcycle so no restrictions on CC.

 

[JonnyG]

good site although it does make you think,why can it not be all straight forward. ....

The complexity arises from a combination of the trying to harmonise the licence systems of all EU members, and the legal precedence of grandfather rights, which means revisions to entitlements cannot be retrospective. This effectively means we are running three possibly four different sets of standards at the same time.

ays going to be issued my licence,assuming i passed the driving test ,it does raise the issue that September 10th 2009 was originally the offical date, but it was clearly changed to a later date..having said that i noticed an error of sorts under the driver cpc.... taking periodic training to keep your driver CPC.. it gives a cut off date of 10th September 2009.. to have so called acquired rights to a driver CPC, meaning anyone who passed their C class HGV licence after that day would also need to do 35 hours of class room studies prior to being given their C class.
this was actually put on hold, for how long i do not know but as i passed my C class test on the 17th of September
2009 and did no 35 hours of classroom studies but i was alw

I suggest if you have a query about its content you actually contact the company directly.

i have no query prof.. i merely gave my opinion on a matter of fact..

 

[JonnyG]

I also note that it does not cover breakdown vehicles correctly. ONLY as long as they operate within a 100km radius are they exempt from driver/ tachograph rules..

 

[JamesH]

JonnyG. You are correct but I hadn`t realised that.
EH52ARH. The reason I phoned the DVLA was that I read that you are automatically entitled to drive cats. BE C1 etc. but when I looked at my licence they were not on it. That's when I phoned the DVLA to be told they drop off at 70 years of age.
Re the motor cycle. In 1953 I bought a brand new Triumph Thunderbird 650cc twin, finished in gold colour, for £240. I delighted in being able to overtake the police motor cycle patrols who only had the Triumph 500cc speed twin, finished in maroon, which were only capable of reaching about 90mph with the wind behind. Those were the days when the no speed limit sign meant no speed limit. Getting a bit off subject now.

 

[Hutch]

Ok off thread for a moment, When youngest son worked for Triumph,as exhaust design Engineer, he was requested to take out a new model of the Rocket 3 cruiser, to put miles on it, on the way back from Southampton to Leaminton Spa, on the M40 Two police bike lads stopped him to check what it was. He was then escorted , by them as he said very Quickly, one in front one behind for 10 miles, just what the lads in Triumph wanted prior to strip down.
Lucky lad, now works for Jag LandRover. And he gets cheaper insurance for having advanced motorcycle test./approval. Now have to talk him into doing his B+E test,
Hutch.

 

[Raywood]

As I understand it at age 70 you do not lose the B+E entitlement but you have to pass a medical to get it renewed.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I posted this link principally because based on my own research it explains the situation regarding caravanning very well. I am not overly concerned or familiar with other categories, and I suggest that if you find what you consider to be s discrepancy in the document by all means mention it here but then you should also be pointing it out to the web site owner.

Hopefully the link will remain active even if the site owner revises their page content.

 

[JonnyG]

I posted this link principally because based on my own research it explains the situation regarding caravanning very well. I am not overly concerned or familiar with other categories, and I suggest that if you find what you consider to be s discrepancy in the document by all means mention it here but then you should also be pointing it out to the web site owner.

Hopefully the link will remain active even if the site owner revises their page content.

not to sound rude Prof, i'm a member of this forum and this forum is my only concern if i was to start pointing out to web site owners what i consider so called discrepancies i wouldn't have time to watch only fools and horses. there is an old Chinese proverb that goes something like "never have so many owed to much to so few" i read that 3 decades back in a book ..****** if i can find a link using google.... to be fair when you mentioned previously that the gov.com site had errors where towing regs were concerned i thought, what even they get it wrong! what are you to believe these days ..

 

[Hutch]

Raywood, from looking at the Gov.uk websites, at 70 you lose C1 +e and D1+ e, but if you wish to keep them , thats when you have to have the medical.D4 form, certified. B+E is still valid by just renewing for 3 years, on line.
Where are senior chaps and Ladies on the forum that have renewed their licences, to put us right.
Hutch.

 

[Gafferbill]

......you have got it right Hutch and no I'm not 70 yet!

 

[Raywood]

Raywood, from looking at the Gov.uk websites, at 70 you lose C1 +e and D1+ e, but if you wish to keep them , thats when you have to have the medical.D4 form, certified. B+E is still valid by just renewing for 3 years, on line.
Where are senior chaps and Ladies on the forum that have renewed their licences, to put us right.
Hutch.

Not sure that there is any real difference in what we are saying just the way it is worded. I still have the old green licence, so the categories on it are different. Not sure what the B+E is. I checked my cars gross weight and the MTPLM of the caravan and I am at 1450 kg so not sure what I will do when I reach 70 in September. It strikes me it is probably worth it to take the medical so that when we change the car or caravan we still have the opportunity to go a bit heavier.

 

[Hutch]

Raywood, If you still have the old paper, or Green Parchment licence, you pobably have the automatic B+E when you renew at 70. This website gives you medicals, and sites,
http://www.driversmedicals.com/_locations.html
Not sure how much your local doctor charges for examination and certification.
Hutch

 

[paws]

I thought I would fish out my licence and have a look at it but alas, I can't put my hand on it just at the moment, so I have examined Mrs Paws' licence ( we both took our tests back in the 1960's) and these are the categories listed for her:
AM
A
B1
B
BE
fklnpq
If the catogories are any different on my licence, when it comes to hand (they shouldn't be) then I'll post back in this topic.
So it looks like you guys are absolutely correct, the BE status remains post age 70, but the C etc., cats are lost unless applied for with appropriate medical evidence.
Hope this helps
Regards
paws

 

[JonnyG]

I thought I would fish out my licence and have a look at it but alas, I can't put my hand on it just at the moment, so I have examined Mrs Paws' licence ( we both took our tests back in the 1960's) and these are the categories listed for her:
AM
A
B1
B
BE
fklnpq
If the catogories are any different on my licence, when it comes to hand (they shouldn't be) then I'll post back in this topic.
So it looks like you guys are absolutely correct, the BE status remains post age 70, but the C etc., cats are lost unless applied for with appropriate medical evidence.
Hope this helps
Regards
paws

ok so this is now getting confusing as the categories and the letters associated with them have changed several times in years gone by.. A ] is now a proper motorcycle licence and AM is moped. i wouldn't
expect to find them on the same licence.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

My license has both A and AM but with different start dates:

A 06.03.74
AM 27.01.13

Edit: along with the earlier start date I also have:
B1
B
C1
D1
BE
C1E
D1E

with the same letters as paws. I did pass my motorcycle license before my car licence.

 

[JonnyG]

My license has both A and AM but with different start dates:

A 06.03.74
AM 27.01.13

Edit: along with the earlier start date I also have:
B1
B
C1
D1
BE
C1E
D1E

with the same letters as paws. I did pass my motorcycle license before my car licence.

yes just looking at the back of my plastic card! i dont get it,! mine was updated 15.10.14, due to my driver cpc. and it has that AM on it. from 15.10 14 till 01. 11. 32 . I too have a full bike licence, S0 why the AM? the full bike licence surely covers all bikes?. ok i am waking up is that for car drivers? in the old days you could ride a moped on a car licence without L plates, has that got something to do with it?