Elddis rear panel cracks

[intransient1]

As we cleaned our van we found a crack appearing on the offside rear corner.
After a search on google it is apparent that this is another common fault that is not being addressed by the manufactures.
To make matters worse Glossop caravans are charging me £35 to inspect what will be a warranty claim as they state they are not paid by elddis inspect problems even under warranty.

 

[Damian]

Quote " Glossop caravans are charging me £35 to inspect what will be a warranty claim as they state they are not paid by elddis inspect problems even under warranty"

They are telling you the truth.
None of the manufacturers or component makers will pay for anything except the actual "Fix"

 

[Dustydog]

Quote " Glossop caravans are charging me £35 to inspect what will be a warranty claim as they state they are not paid by elddis inspect problems even under warranty"

They are telling you the truth.
None of the manufacturers or component makers will pay for anything except the actual "Fix"

Damian

Surely it is encumbent upon the dealer to investigate a customer complaint foc?
If it transpires there is a fault then either the dealer pays or the dealer proves it is a manufacturer responsibility?
What does the Prof think?

 

[Damian]

Quote " Surely it is encumbent upon the dealer to investigate a customer complaint foc? "

Nope, it is not.
Only the fix is paid under warranty,not the "How did it happen" or "What is wrong?"

In an ideal world, with customer service being the utmost priority, yes FOC inspection would help to keep customers coming back, but as we all know, once the very large wad of money for a van has been grasped by the dealer, THATS IT!

Customer service has gone , goodwill has pretty much gone, and everything that takes time has to be paid for by someone,,,,,,,,,,,,,probably you or me.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi all.

Whilst we would all like matters to be black and white, and simple and straightforward to resolve, None of us wan't a crack to appear in a caravan panel, its natural for us to be very upset, and of course we want to try and find someone who may be deemed responsible and who will pay to repair it. However we also have to consider the realistic possibility the crack could be the result of damage rather than a design or manufacturing fault.

When the cause of a problem is not fully understood the only way to gather more information so an informed opinion may be made is for the product to be investigated, and that takes time and work, all of which costs money and raises the question of who is going to fund the investigation?

In these situations where liability for the issue has not been established, the party that contracts the investigation is liable for the cost of the investigation.

If it transpires the damage is the result of a design or manufacturing fault and the seller still has a liability for the product either under SoGA or any other guarantee then you may have the opportunity to have your investigation costs covered by them - but its not certain - it will be open to negotiation or the direction of the courts on a case by case basis.

 

[woodsieboy]

Hi Intransient
If you have bought the caravan using a finance agreement i suggest involving the finance company, initially a letter to advise them of the problem, and once you have identified the problem they could help you to get it fixed. When we had a problem they sent an independent assessor to view our van at no cost to us, the assessor provided them with a report and they accepted all but one of his comments.The finance company then put pressure on the dealer to respond to our requests for replacement parts.

 

[Dustydog]

Damian and Prof
I understand your points.
However. If my caravan is well within the guarantee, warranty and Soga time frames why should I pay for an inspection of a failure item?
So my car is running rough. See the dealer. He tests it and tells me an Injector is suspect. Do I pay? No.
Please tell me why a caravan is different?
I appreciate an extraneous damage causing the crack is outside of warranties but surely if what you both say is true then I for one may have to think very carefully from whom I buy my next new caravan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Dusty,

As I pointed out, its not always black and white, and whether the cost of diagnosis is charged separately or not very much depends on the individual circumstances.

I have used garages where they stipulate there is a diagnosis charge, but if the remedial work is carried out by them, the charge is reduced or even waived.

This in my view is a reasonable approach, as in some cases the cause of symptoms may or may not be a warrantable fault.

However, I have also used garages where the technicians and engineers are very well versed with the products they sell, and can accurately identify some faults without recourse to costly investigations. The same is true for caravan faults

But where there is any serious doubt which warrants a more indepth investigation, then costs will always initially fall on the party requesting the investigation.

If the results of the investigation show it to be a warrantable fault, then you may have a good case for the cost of the investigation to be borne by the party responsible for the fault.

Don't forget that after six months of ownership, under SoGA the onus is on the owner to prove the seller is in breach of contract, so you would be liable to fund any investigation or evidence gathering with the hope the courts will award you your costs - but its always judged on a case by case basis with no guarantee the seller will have to cover all your costs.

Also don't forget that manufacturers warranties and guarantees are a contracted gift not a rite, and are controlled by their T&C's where the manufacturers can basically choose what benefits or restrictions that will be applied.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks John

We poor caravanners always seem to be on the back foot. That's life I suppose. Thanks for your further advice.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks John

We poor caravanners always seem to be on the back foot. That's life I suppose. Thanks for your further advice.

This state of play is not unique to caravanners, but to all retail disputes. However and to be fair there are some retailers/manufacturers who are known for their generosity towards customer complaints, and simply do not quibble when a product is reported as faulty.

Businesses have to take a pragmatic view, and balance the cost to of disputing a fault, compared to the financial loss of simply accepting it and replacing or refunding. Unfortunately there can't be generalised approach to this across all retail products as it will depend on the individual circumstances apart from the commercial considerations, with some types of fault there may also be legal implications especially where safety may be called into question.

Where a product is agreed to be faulty, generally from the businesses perspective it is more cost effective to replace a faulty item than to refund it because the loss to the business is the cost of the product. which is partly offset by the profit from the original sale. Also depending on what product and its fault is, it may be recycled in part of full, and offered as a manufacturers second. :dry:

Products with a historic tendency to generate guarantee/warranty claims tend to have an increased element of their sale price budgeted to cover such claims. The caravan industry with its dismal history of faults is a past master at this, and a significant element of the sale price is there to cover claims. This inflates the sale prices, and I know from years ago one manufacture effectively was adding up to 10% to the price of their caravans as a contingency for claims. Sadly the buying public have become conditioned to accept these inflated prices as the norm, which means where a product does not generate any faults, then that contingency is converted to profit.

I should point out I'm not against profit. Profit is essential to keep business afloat and allowing scope for development. I do detest excessive profiteering where that excess is generated out of the misfortune of the customer.

Businesses that look after customers do better. B) There is the intangible value to the business of the "good will" that is generated when a customer is placated quickly at the first attempt. In caravanning circles there is one manufacture of a mover who has played a blinder in this respect, and continually receives glowing praise for their after sales service despite the probability that other manufactures may offer very similar service, or their products may be actually more reliable hmy: Sadly the necessary data to confirm this contention is commercially very sensitive and is not available.

Whilst I have questioned the morality of having a great after sales service, I can't argue about its success, and as long as products have a tendency to fail, it should be beholden of all businesses to try and emulate the quality of service the market leader offers.

 

[intransient1]

As it transpired upon arrival at the dealership 2 quick pics taken no charge as this is a common fault on Elddis vans since Abs plastic replaced grp rear panels.
Although the warranty claim has been put in, it now comes down to waiting for acceptance and the part availability and it will probably be between 3 and 6 months.
My only concern remains that unless the stresses at the fracture points are reduced then this will probably happen again.
Just a pity I can't get any use out of the van as the hospital operated on me and I am not allowed to use my left foot for 6 weeks.
God I'm bored.

 

[intransient1]

Well I took the van in this morning for the rear panel and 3 other recurring faults, only to be told they now fit corner caps over the cracks, obviously because this is a common fault replacing the rear panel must be getting costly.
This is obviously a design fault that should be addressed correctly not covered up.
Made in Britain - - - -.

 

[Raywood]

I am not at all sure this is acceptable. They have admitted the part is faulty and should replace it. Having said that if the design was faulty you may be better off with the repair. It does need some technical advice tobe sure you are getting a fair deal.

 

[Dustydog]

This stinks of a quick cheapo fix.
My main concern is the future residual value of your caravan which in effect has been patched rather than properly repaired with a new panel.
Manufacturers do have the right to make changes and modifications of course.

So will Elddis be adding caps to all previous made units irrespective of failure?
I doubt it very much.

 

[paws]

Elddis have been fitting these corner caps (they are bonded in place using the same bonding agents used for the original bonding) for well over a year now.

i don't know if there has been any negative feedback as a result of this.... has anyone seen any?
Regards
paws

 

[intransient1]

Well that caps have been fitted and what can I say, c - - p comes to mind,
They look like the are cut from a long piece of material with cut marks down the edges which I had to get them to seal correctly and cover the rough edges.
Is there any way of putting pics on here as I would like opinions on the quality of repair.
Needless to say when I signed for the van back I deleted the satisfaction section.
Got yet another reversing light fitted, let's see if this one leaks.
New water pump as the pressure dropped off again.

 

[Sproket]

Well that caps have been fitted and what can I say, c - - p comes to mind,
They look like the are cut from a long piece of material with cut marks down the edges which I had to get them to seal correctly and cover the rough edges.
Is there any way of putting pics on here as I would like opinions on the quality of repair.
Needless to say when I signed for the van back I deleted the satisfaction section.
Got yet another reversing light fitted, let's see if this one leaks.
New water pump as the pressure dropped off again.

First of all have a look at this then it's easy

When you upload a photo to photobucket you then need to click on the link at the side of the word Direct, it will highlight and quickly say copied ..

When you click on the tab to insert a photo you need to remove the htpp:// before you paste your link into that box

The box will then look like this ...

Then put a size into the box for the photo size and past the link into the box below.

Just remember that when you click insert it will put the photo were the cursor is .....

shout up if you need more instructions

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Intransigent,

I am sorry to read of your dissatisfaction with the repair. If it really is a problem to you then you should of course take it up with the manufacturer who is responsible for the repair as they instructed a dealer to carry it out, but don't forget that little sentence in the manufacturers guarantee that should state to the effect that the terms and conditions of the guarantee in no way diminish your statutory legal rights under the sale of goods act. This means that you have not forfeited your right to take action under SoGA against the seller.

In some respects your claim is stronger now, because the manufacturer has undertaken "repairs" under the terms of their agreement, which they would not have done if the cause were abuse or wear and tear, it is tantamount to having an expert witness confirming the fault was either inherent or present at the time of sale.

Under recent changes to the SoGA, the seller has only a limited number of chances to rectify the problem, before more draconian remedies (possible refund) might be directed by a court.

 

[Dustydog]

Would you fly in an aeroplane with a cracked wing patched up with a stick on cap? :woohoo:
Wall papering over the cracks springs to mind hmy:

 

[intransient1]

Hi ProfJohnL,
Thank you for the update regarding Soga,  it is beginning to look as if I am going to have to go down this route.
I waited till my wife returned from a trip abroad to show her the repair before contacting the dealership again.
The following is my email to the dealerships workshop manager and his reply.
 
Hi ( name removed )
To me it looks as if these have been cut down as the edges are all very rough.
I was not happy with the quality of the repair when I collected the van and did cross out the satisfied part of the collection receipt.
When I first reported this fault I was informed that the back panel would need replacing.
when I dropped the caravan off I was then told that now they only fitted end caps, I kept an open mind about it but the finished repair leaves a great deal to be desired
Please see attached photos.
Regards,
 
 
Thank you for your email and pictures. The current situation is that Elddis will not authorise any dealer to replace a rear panel should it have low level cracking. Our instructions are to bond these corner caps over the existing panel. Elddis supply the caps and bonding materials along with a process sheet to instruct the repair.
 
At this point ( name removed ) are not able to offer any other warranty approved solution. With regards to the images sent, it would appear that the finish of the sealing could be improved and we would of course be happy to resolve this.
 
I will continue to feedback our customers (and my own) views on this fix and if Elddis review things and instruct a different repair then we will of course advise accordingly.
 
Kind Regards

 

[woodsieboy]

Hi Intransient
We have had problems with our van and eventually an independent assessor was sent to view the van on behalf of the finance company, he produced a report for them detailing the work needed and we also received a copy, it may be worth you getting an independent assessor to examine the standard of the repair. If you paid all or part of the original invoice by credit card you have rights against the card company too, and if you used a finance agreement then the finance company has obligations to you also. Happily we had our van fixed to our satisfaction and were also paid compensation for loss of use by the finance company,this was calculated using their formula and was at their suggestion.

 

[intransient1]

Hi Sproket,
I have set up photobucket on my tablet and imported the photos but I can't find how to share them.
HELP

 

[Sproket]

What type of tablet have you got ?

 

[intransient1]

Samsung galaxy note 8 android

 

[Sproket]

Samsung galaxy note 8 android

What can you see when you try to copy the link from photobucket does it quickly flash yellow ??