Energy prices

[otherclive]

Energy bills include all the costs of the energy company plus the costs forced upon them as surcharges and levies to pay for political good causes - paying the bills of defaulters who have their human rights protected, the cost of the money often squandered on daft projects. This lot is more than the VAT and adds up to a big percentage of our bills.

Here’s a breakdown of costs associated with the average energy bill. Don’t see anything about political causes, or paying defaulters bills to protect their human rights. But unfortunately there will always be people who perhaps through unavoidable circumstances who may default on bills. But I know from the experience of my brother that the utility companies are not a soft touch, but they do provide assistance to help in resolving issues, for the vulnerable.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-advice-households/costs-your-energy-bill

 

[woodsieboy]

Surely, if energy companies were to offer a price inclusive of overheads, that the standing charge is supposed to cover , it would be fairer on the low usage customers and they would be contributing to the fixed costs, each customer would be paying on the basis of energy used, using the daily standing charge model penalise the low usage customers. For example a landlord with empty property is obliged to pay standing charges when the property is using no or minimal energy, a person living in a small flat pays the same standing charge as a 4/5 bedroom house.
The network costs and operating costs have stayed roughly the same for 10 years, the wholesale cost has gone down in that time, the biggest increase has been environmental costs, according to Ofgem website, so now the wholesale price is increasing, why should network and operating costs increase as well ?

 

[RogerL]

Surely, if energy companies were to offer a price inclusive of overheads, that the standing charge is supposed to cover , it would be fairer on the low usage customers and they would be contributing to the fixed costs, each customer would be paying on the basis of energy used, using the daily standing charge model penalise the low usage customers. For example a landlord with empty property is obliged to pay standing charges when the property is using no or minimal energy, a person living in a small flat pays the same standing charge as a 4/5 bedroom house.

Business models vary for different products - many things are fixed cost per month/year with no usage charge - eg, Council Tax, mobile phone contracts.

At the end of the day it's the total cost that matters.

 

[Jcloughie]

I put a separate thread for this as it‘s a bit different that the one already running under ‘Energy Prices.

My gas and electricity costs are around the average for a 3 bed house according to official figures. And I fully expect them to rise to around £1900 in the autumn. And probably a lot more later on. A neighbour though has been very worried about their bills for about two years, and now that concern has grown.

They have queried their bills in the past but without success. This week I suggested we try a comparison. We compared my yearly estimated kWh with theirs. Their electricity is 51% more and the gas 26%.

Gas:
The two houses are similar. Mine is a bit bigger having been extended from and back. We have identical boilers fitted at the same time. On the face of it we should pay more but they have a gas hob and keep their living room at a higher temperature, also, they like a cold bedroom so have a window open all night and often during the day.

This probably explained the difference.

Electricity:
On the face of it, they should use similar or less as we have an electric hob. So why are they 51% higher.

The question is. How can the excess be explained and proven?

Any ideas

John

 

[otherclive]

You don’t say how to what temperature other rooms are heated. This last three week I’ve been looking at our Hive which logs boiler time on burn. One day we went to just over 3 hours when most other days it can be anywhere between 2 hrs 10 min to 2 hours 35 min. The day it was on for longer was one where we turned it on mid afternoon and the lounge had dropped to just over 15 deg C. Whereas if the heating is turned on earlier in the day at a desired thermostat temperature of 17 deg the time the boiler is firing is less.


So all I’m saying is that bolier run time can be very much influenced by how the house is used, desired temperature and scheduled programme times. We tend to run the system manually rather than to set schedule programmes. The only scheduled programme is 2 hours for hot water between 0730-0930.

Electric could be the size of the oven(s), age of cooker, how much cooking they do, and lighting. Fridge/ freezer size, location, age……. etc. By discarding an old range with gas hob and electric ovens for all gas, our overall electric consumption has dropped markedly. The new all gas cooker will pay for itself within 5 years.

 

[malcolmlj]

All very interesting, but what does it have to do with Motor Caravanning ?

 

[Hutch]

All very interesting, but what does it have to do with Motor Caravanning ?

It is in General Chit chat, on the forum, and can help some folk. Some folk may gain some information thats helpfull for them.

 

[RogerL]

All very interesting, but what does it have to do with Motor Caravanning ?

There's a Motorhome sub-section for those issues - but all caravanners and motorhomers will be affected by the high cost of energy.

 

[Jcloughie]

All very interesting, but what does it have to do with Motor Caravanning ?

Absolutely nothing, also nothing to do with caravanning. But this is the chit chat section. So within the criteria.

You don’t say how to what temperature other rooms are heated. This last three week I’ve been looking at our Hive which logs boiler time on burn. One day we went to just over 3 hours when most other days it can be anywhere between 2 hrs 10 min to 2 hours 35 min. The day it was on for longer was one where we turned it on mid afternoon and the lounge had dropped to just over 15 deg C. Whereas if the heating is turned on earlier in the day at a desired thermostat temperature of 17 deg the time the boiler is firing is less.


So all I’m saying is that bolier run time can be very much influenced by how the house is used, desired temperature and scheduled programme times. We tend to run the system manually rather than to set schedule programmes. The only scheduled programme is 2 hours for hot water between 0730-0930.

Electric could be the size of the oven(s), age of cooker, how much cooking they do, and lighting. Fridge/ freezer size, location, age……. etc. By discarding an old range with gas hob and electric ovens for all gas, our overall electric consumption has dropped markedly. The new all gas cooker will pay for itself within 5 years.

I think we have our heating much warmer than yours, but their living room is even warmer than ours. Also ours are all smart rads and theirs are conventional rad stats. But we think the gas consumption is explainable.

The question is in relation to the electricity and the best way to get this validated. They need to know that their meters are accurate.


John

.

 

[Ern]

Here’s a breakdown of costs associated with the average energy bill. Don’t see anything about political causes, or paying defaulters bills to protect their human rights. But unfortunately there will always be people who perhaps through unavoidable circumstances who may default on bills. But I know from the experience of my brother that the utility companies are not a soft touch, but they do provide assistance to help in resolving issues, for the vulnerable.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-advice-households/costs-your-energy-bill

"Social and environmental cost obligations.
Larger suppliers have to help pay for government energy policies. These costs could cover schemes to support energy efficiency improvements in homes and businesses, help vulnerable people and encourage take-up of renewable technology. "

 

[otherclive]

"Social and environmental cost obligations.
Larger suppliers have to help pay for government energy policies. These costs could cover schemes to support energy efficiency improvements in homes and businesses, help vulnerable people and encourage take-up of renewable technology. "

Thank you for the quotation from the link that I posted, I had read the link, but I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[otherclive]

Absolutely nothing, also nothing to do with caravanning. But this is the chit chat section. So within the criteria.



I think we have our heating much warmer than yours, but their living room is even warmer than ours. Also ours are all smart rads and theirs are conventional rad stats. But we think the gas consumption is explainable.

The question is in relation to the electricity and the best way to get this validated. They need to know that their meters are accurate.


John

.

I think prior to seeking meter checks an audit of electrical appliances and usage patterns comparing your home and theirs might be useful in highlighting differences.

 

[Hutch]

There could be several "thing" contributing to the differences.
ie. We have economy 7 , night electricity, we use our dishwasher, washing machine and tumbledrier all at night time.
In the summer we run an inflatable hottub, we power this all the time, as it uses less electricity to maintain a temperature than to heat it from say 20c to 34c every 3rd day.

I have recently tried using our immersion heater from 6am to 7 am, to off set the gas heating the water, ( not sure if that really works )

But all little thing like that may contribute to the cost. I have just checked , with the TV on fridges x2 Frezzers x2, 4 lights on in the lounge and 6 out side security lights, out Smart meter display , shows our usage as 0.10 pence an hour.

 

[Jcloughie]

I think prior to seeking meter checks an audit of electrical appliances and usage patterns comparing your home and theirs might be useful in highlighting differences.

Done that but in very unscientific way. We have far more gadgets and tech and appliances than they do. But point taken.

John

 

[otherclive]

Surely, if energy companies were to offer a price inclusive of overheads, that the standing charge is supposed to cover , it would be fairer on the low usage customers and they would be contributing to the fixed costs, each customer would be paying on the basis of energy used, using the daily standing charge model penalise the low usage customers. For example a landlord with empty property is obliged to pay standing charges when the property is using no or minimal energy, a person living in a small flat pays the same standing charge as a 4/5 bedroom house.
The network costs and operating costs have stayed roughly the same for 10 years, the wholesale cost has gone down in that time, the biggest increase has been environmental costs, according to Ofgem website, so now the wholesale price is increasing, why should network and operating costs increase as well ?

Im not sure that your approach would work in the same way that a business accounts for overheads in its pricing structure. Customers of a business have choice whether to use that business services or products, go elsewhere or just decide against purchasing that product or service. On services or products like energy or water they are essential needs for all, and spreading those charges across all users is a fairer approach. Even so some users will have difficulty paying their bills and the pre payment meters are offered, but even those are not a panacea for everyone with financial difficulties.

 

[Buckman]

Come April when the new rates start hitting hard coupled with other world issues sadly going to hit some very hard .... Lets hope the Budget keeps this in mind.....👀

GAS

As it is coming into summer we will be using less fuel and many energy companies will probably not increase the monthly DD b y very much. The general public will then say what a nice company and stay with the supplier for another year.
At that point the supplier will rack up the DD as the consumer is now in contract and the supplier now has the consumer by the shorts as suddenly the unwary consumer will find themselves in huge debt to the current supplier and cannot change supplier anyway!
Many suppliers use very underhand but legal tactics to keep customers.

 

[otherclive]

As it is coming into summer we will be using less fuel and many energy companies will probably not increase the monthly DD b y very much. The general public will then say what a nice company and stay with the supplier for another year.
At that point the supplier will rack up the DD as the consumer is now in contract and the supplier now has the consumer by the shorts as suddenly the unwary consumer will find themselves in huge debt to the current supplier and cannot change supplier anyway!
Many suppliers use very underhand but legal tactics to keep customers.

Isn’t the increase likely to happen with a new company when the likely even higher tariff cap comes along in October? Whichever way it’s not easily avoided other than going for a fixed deal if any are even being offered, and they would probably be even higher than the capped tariff.

 

[Parksy]

All very interesting, but what does it have to do with Motor Caravanning ?

If you go to the forum topic list, under 'Chit Chat' which is the heading for this message board, is a faint strap line that reads:
'For non caravan nattering- jokes, trivia, gossip and much more.'
We host many lengthy and detailed discussions about caravanning and motorhomes, some of them highly technical on various message boards.
This Chit Chat message board provides an outlet for other issues. 😊

 

[Buckman]

Isn’t the increase likely to happen with a new company when the likely even higher tariff cap comes along in October? Whichever way it’s not easily avoided other than going for a fixed deal if any are even being offered, and they would probably be even higher than the capped tariff.

Sorry I am missing the point of your post as I made no reference to a new company? However you are correct about any new deals being offered higher than the capped rate.
At present we are on a capped rate and if we moved supplier we would be £150 worse off a month even though at present we are already paying £140 per month as it is estimated on Martin's website that our DD should be £350 per month or £4200 annually if we changed to SSE?
For example if the standing charge is 0.50p per day that means a kw will be costing £0.53p. If standing charge is lower cost of kw increases.
That is probably unsustainable for the majority of the population.

 

[Dustydog]

Looking at the Prof’s last post reminds me of the Poll Tax. Look what happened there. Best stick to a fixed standing charge per property..

 

[Dustydog]

Two years ago my son fitted a new Vaillant gas boiler and a Hive. Boiler is rated at A+++ for efficiency. Original was 20:years old and D rated. We noticed a significant reduction in our costs. And dare I say the Vaillant is as green as you can go with a gas boiler. Maybe it’s worth looking at a new boiler which may save you money in the long term

 

[otherclive]

Two years ago my son fitted a new Vaillant gas boiler and a Hive. Boiler is rated at A+++ for efficiency. Original was 20:years old and D rated. We noticed a significant reduction in our costs. And dare I say the Vaillant is as green as you can go with a gas boiler. Maybe it’s worth looking at a new boiler which may save you money in the long term

Our daughters boiler is 7 years old so we take a keen eye out for what future legislation may require and how it may affect the availability of a new replacement boiler circa 2025. But her gas usage has dropped as has her electric too by fitting one of these small electric water heaters under the sink. It only holds 2.5/litres but that is enough for washing up. It also allows tea to be made direct from the heater hence saving wastage on a kettle. The gas boiler a combi is at the front of the house so even though it is a powerful unit it takes quite a while for hot water to reach the sink at the rear of the house. So in reality the boiler only tends to fulfil heating duties now.

 

[otherclive]

Looking at the Prof’s last post reminds me of the Poll Tax. Look what happened there. Best stick to a fixed standing charge per property..

Good point, and as with other services all account holders contribute. I don’t use swimming pools, gyms, library etc but recognise that Council Tax makes those facilities available to all at either no charge or reasonable charge.

 

[Buckman]

I put a separate thread for this as it‘s a bit different that the one already running under ‘Energy Prices.

My gas and electricity costs are around the average for a 3 bed house according to official figures. And I fully expect them to rise to around £1900 in the autumn. And probably a lot more later on. A neighbour though has been very worried about their bills for about two years, and now that concern has grown.

They have queried their bills in the past but without success. This week I suggested we try a comparison. We compared my yearly estimated kWh with theirs. Their electricity is 51% more and the gas 26%.

Gas:
The two houses are similar. Mine is a bit bigger having been extended from and back. We have identical boilers fitted at the same time. On the face of it we should pay more but they have a gas hob and keep their living room at a higher temperature, also, they like a cold bedroom so have a window open all night and often during the day.

This probably explained the difference.

Electricity:
On the face of it, they should use similar or less as we have an electric hob. So why are they 51% higher.

The question is. How can the excess be explained and proven?

Any ideas

John

We had the same with the elderly neighbours across the road. They had their heating on far too high as it was set to 23C 24/7. I reset the temperature and also the timing. Their electric bill nearly halved. Neither of us have gas.

We have again changed our timing. At 6am heating is on to 20C. At 9am thsi is switched down to 18C until 5pm when it goes up to 20C until 10pm. between 10pm and 6am it is turned down to 17C.
Also we have have a number of Eco friendly machines. Our Dec and Jan consumption not much of a difference although lower. Feb a distinct drop in consumption however we altered the heating timinggs etc.

 

[Dustydog]

Confession time! We and some of our friends use wraps or lighter duvets , covering us up whilst watching TV in the lounge. Defo saves on the heating bills😉