I have not seen any statement from Bailey to say they recommend Cara-van product of Fenwick is detrimental to their caravan. until I see something in writing from Bailey I will continue to use Fenwick.
Seems like a lot of Hoo-Hah about this - a veritable storm in a teaspoon 
I've found a big container of Asda's own-brand 'wash & wax', liberally slopped into a bucket of nice warm water does the job very well indeed!
I bought a few of those 'Flash' cleaning kits when they were being sold for next to nothing and I'm gong to give that a go when the weather warms up
I have to say - I used it (the Flash 'no streak' gadget) on the car and it produced *the* best finish I've ever seen, so I see no reason why it won't do the same on the caravan.
Mind you, it's a dour German van with no fancy flimsy ABS fol-de-rol's -and it'll take rather more than the wrong brand of cleaner to upset it!
I've found a big container of Asda's own-brand 'wash & wax', liberally slopped into a bucket of nice warm water does the job very well indeed!
I bought a few of those 'Flash' cleaning kits when they were being sold for next to nothing and I'm gong to give that a go when the weather warms up
I have to say - I used it (the Flash 'no streak' gadget) on the car and it produced *the* best finish I've ever seen, so I see no reason why it won't do the same on the caravan.
Mind you, it's a dour German van with no fancy flimsy ABS fol-de-rol's -and it'll take rather more than the wrong brand of cleaner to upset it!
Further to James's post above here are the posts from www.soapysmiths.com
I hope that due to the concerns raised here that the mods run with this, and I'm sure Soapy Smiths will be happy to get some of the facts further out in the open.
"James at 14:27:44 on 01/03/2008 asks:
"Soapy, can you shed any light on the Bailey / Care-avan saga as many members on many web site forums would be most interested. James"
Soapy Says:
Hi James,
With reference to claims and statements made by a certain supplier of caravan cleaning products, Soapy Smiths would comment as follows:
It has been implied as a statement of fact that the use of Fenwick's products on Bailey caravans will invalidate the manufacturer's warrantee.
If this where true, it would be such an important issue that surely Bailey's would have issued a written statement to all their existing customers for whom they have a full data base. They would also have made this issue clear in the official handbook provided with all new units. To our knowledge no such statement has been issued by Bailey's to their customers, therefore there can be no truth in the implied statement.
It has been implied as a statement of fact that Bailey Caravans have only approved the use of one specific brand of cleaner and that the use of any other brand will have a damaging effect on a Bailey unit leading to the invalidation of the manufacturers warrantee. A letter dated 4th September 2007 from Chris Harvey - Financial Director of Bailey Caravans has been posted on the certain suppliers web site in suport of this implied statement.
As above, if this where true then the statement would have been made by Bailey Caravans themselves. Existing customers would have been contacted directly or via the dealer network, new customers by mention in the official Bailey handbook (to our knowledge no such statement or recomendation appears in this handbook). Also one would assume that, if true, such an important issue would have been covered in leading periodicals. Soapy Smiths would also recommend reading the actual wordage of the Chris Harvey letter. See for yourself what this says, there is no condemnation of other brands and no sugestion that to use alternative brands invalidates the units warrantee.
It has been claimed as a statement of fact, via the Practical Caravan web site forum, 17 FEb 2008, 10.16 PM posted by The Polish King, that, to quote The Polish King "..both The Caravan Club and Camping & Caravaning Clubs are recommending Care-avan Cleaning Products to All Members...". Reference has also then been made specifically to page 98 of the March issue of the Caravan Club magazine.
The Caravan Club and the Camping & Caravaning Club are both impartial and independant organisations. As such it is our understanding that they do not make recomendations to their many members regarding specific individual suppliers or specific individual products. A quick look at the mentioned article clearly reveals there is no recomendation and to claim it does is, in the opinion of Soapy Smiths, an insult to such a highly respected organisation and its members.
It is clear, in the opinion of Soapy Smiths, that a certain supplier is trying to promote their own products via, among other avenues, web site forums by "having a go" at their competitors and by making unsubstantiated claims on behalf of major caravan manufacturers. This certain supplier has already had postings removed from such forums for blatant advertising. It is the considered opinion of Soapy Smiths that this method of marketing shows a distinct lack of confidence in the suppliers own product. Using scare tactics to try to force customers to use specific product, "to use any other cleaner will invalidate the warrantee", especially when not true, is not a road down which Soapy Smiths or any other reputable supplier would want to go.
Soapy Smiths would say quite clearly to all existing and potential customers:
"Use whichever product suits your individual requirements and standards. If it works for you and you are happy with the results then fine. Don't let any supplier scare you into using their particular brand. Use your own considered judgement based on true facts and all the available information. Don't rely on claims made by suppliers on behalf of major unit manufacturers, especially when the unit manufacturers makes no such claims themselves.
If you want to question a specific products effect on the warrantee of your unit, ask the unit manufacturer directly, they are the only ones qualified to make a firm statement on the invalidation of their warrantee. No third party can make such unilateral statements or claims.
Does using Fenwick's products invalidate your unit manaufacturer's warrantee ?
Don't take the word of one specific supplier as the gospel truth, ask your units manufacturer for a written statement of fact."
Omf at 20:49:34 on 31/07/2007 asks:
" would it be possible to see Fenwick's statement re Bailey's"
Soapy Says:
Yes certainly,and here it is short and sweet.
"Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner does not cause damage to acrylic capped ABS as used by Bailey Caravans. This has been proved by Fenwick's own testing and also by independent testing carried out by Hull University and Geocel Ltd. Thompson Plastics (the manufacturer of the material used by Bailey Caravans) also commissioned independent testing, which found that "the material (Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner) is not deleterious to capped ABS in the relaxed condition".
After many years using this capped ABS material, Bailey Caravans have been unable to provide any evidence that Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner has caused any damage to their caravans. Despite the limited amount of warranty problems encountered by Bailey Caravans, not a single one has been found to be caused by Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner or other associated FEnwick's products.
In fact Fenwick's products fully comply with Bailey's warranty information, Thompson Plastics (materials moulder) warranty information and the material manufactures warranty information.
So if anyone beleives that Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner could viod the warranty of a correctly manufactured and fitted part, they are sadly mistaken"
Statement from Jonathon Smith B.Eng Director
Fenwick's Ltd."
Seems sad to me that someone who claims to be religeous acts in such a strange way.
Jason
I hope that due to the concerns raised here that the mods run with this, and I'm sure Soapy Smiths will be happy to get some of the facts further out in the open.
"James at 14:27:44 on 01/03/2008 asks:
"Soapy, can you shed any light on the Bailey / Care-avan saga as many members on many web site forums would be most interested. James"
Soapy Says:
Hi James,
With reference to claims and statements made by a certain supplier of caravan cleaning products, Soapy Smiths would comment as follows:
It has been implied as a statement of fact that the use of Fenwick's products on Bailey caravans will invalidate the manufacturer's warrantee.
If this where true, it would be such an important issue that surely Bailey's would have issued a written statement to all their existing customers for whom they have a full data base. They would also have made this issue clear in the official handbook provided with all new units. To our knowledge no such statement has been issued by Bailey's to their customers, therefore there can be no truth in the implied statement.
It has been implied as a statement of fact that Bailey Caravans have only approved the use of one specific brand of cleaner and that the use of any other brand will have a damaging effect on a Bailey unit leading to the invalidation of the manufacturers warrantee. A letter dated 4th September 2007 from Chris Harvey - Financial Director of Bailey Caravans has been posted on the certain suppliers web site in suport of this implied statement.
As above, if this where true then the statement would have been made by Bailey Caravans themselves. Existing customers would have been contacted directly or via the dealer network, new customers by mention in the official Bailey handbook (to our knowledge no such statement or recomendation appears in this handbook). Also one would assume that, if true, such an important issue would have been covered in leading periodicals. Soapy Smiths would also recommend reading the actual wordage of the Chris Harvey letter. See for yourself what this says, there is no condemnation of other brands and no sugestion that to use alternative brands invalidates the units warrantee.
It has been claimed as a statement of fact, via the Practical Caravan web site forum, 17 FEb 2008, 10.16 PM posted by The Polish King, that, to quote The Polish King "..both The Caravan Club and Camping & Caravaning Clubs are recommending Care-avan Cleaning Products to All Members...". Reference has also then been made specifically to page 98 of the March issue of the Caravan Club magazine.
The Caravan Club and the Camping & Caravaning Club are both impartial and independant organisations. As such it is our understanding that they do not make recomendations to their many members regarding specific individual suppliers or specific individual products. A quick look at the mentioned article clearly reveals there is no recomendation and to claim it does is, in the opinion of Soapy Smiths, an insult to such a highly respected organisation and its members.
It is clear, in the opinion of Soapy Smiths, that a certain supplier is trying to promote their own products via, among other avenues, web site forums by "having a go" at their competitors and by making unsubstantiated claims on behalf of major caravan manufacturers. This certain supplier has already had postings removed from such forums for blatant advertising. It is the considered opinion of Soapy Smiths that this method of marketing shows a distinct lack of confidence in the suppliers own product. Using scare tactics to try to force customers to use specific product, "to use any other cleaner will invalidate the warrantee", especially when not true, is not a road down which Soapy Smiths or any other reputable supplier would want to go.
Soapy Smiths would say quite clearly to all existing and potential customers:
"Use whichever product suits your individual requirements and standards. If it works for you and you are happy with the results then fine. Don't let any supplier scare you into using their particular brand. Use your own considered judgement based on true facts and all the available information. Don't rely on claims made by suppliers on behalf of major unit manufacturers, especially when the unit manufacturers makes no such claims themselves.
If you want to question a specific products effect on the warrantee of your unit, ask the unit manufacturer directly, they are the only ones qualified to make a firm statement on the invalidation of their warrantee. No third party can make such unilateral statements or claims.
Does using Fenwick's products invalidate your unit manaufacturer's warrantee ?
Don't take the word of one specific supplier as the gospel truth, ask your units manufacturer for a written statement of fact."
Omf at 20:49:34 on 31/07/2007 asks:
" would it be possible to see Fenwick's statement re Bailey's"
Soapy Says:
Yes certainly,and here it is short and sweet.
"Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner does not cause damage to acrylic capped ABS as used by Bailey Caravans. This has been proved by Fenwick's own testing and also by independent testing carried out by Hull University and Geocel Ltd. Thompson Plastics (the manufacturer of the material used by Bailey Caravans) also commissioned independent testing, which found that "the material (Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner) is not deleterious to capped ABS in the relaxed condition".
After many years using this capped ABS material, Bailey Caravans have been unable to provide any evidence that Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner has caused any damage to their caravans. Despite the limited amount of warranty problems encountered by Bailey Caravans, not a single one has been found to be caused by Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner or other associated FEnwick's products.
In fact Fenwick's products fully comply with Bailey's warranty information, Thompson Plastics (materials moulder) warranty information and the material manufactures warranty information.
So if anyone beleives that Fenwick's Caravan Cleaner could viod the warranty of a correctly manufactured and fitted part, they are sadly mistaken"
Statement from Jonathon Smith B.Eng Director
Fenwick's Ltd."
Seems sad to me that someone who claims to be religeous acts in such a strange way.
Jason
Seems sad to me that someone who claims to be religeous acts in such a strange way.
Jason
For those (like me) who haven't been following this 'soap' (boom-boom!) opera, where does the religion come in?
Not that I'm complaining - when discussions start to tire, the injection of religion and/or politics can make an old thread sparkle like new
Jason
For those (like me) who haven't been following this 'soap' (boom-boom!) opera, where does the religion come in?
Not that I'm complaining - when discussions start to tire, the injection of religion and/or politics can make an old thread sparkle like new
Would have thought if Baileys felt thatFenwicks or Autoglym damaged panels they would have looked at recovering via their legal dept.Careaven have spent money having tests done and are aggressively recovering that money but have overstepped the mark imo.Dropping the price a little might do more good
At the risk of getting off topic,the front and rear panels on most caravans are vacuum formed from acrylic capped ABS plastic.
Although the panels look so hard and shiny,the plastic will actually absorb certain aromatic chemicals,which alters the materials properties.In the main it increases brittlesness,which results in stress and vibration cracks over time.
The golden rule is wash with water and polish with "pure" polishes if you have to.I use Mer on mine,which seems to be water soluble.Never use chemicals like white spirit to remove squashed flies etc,which I have seen done on site after a summer journey.Never use household cleaning agents (did for 3 mira shower bodies before I sussed what the wife was cleaning the shower with)as these can contain ammonia and other active de-greasers.
My authority for this is 30 years in the vacuum forming industry,moulding products such as mobility scooter bodies.Over the years I had to deal with a number of problems caused by incorrect cleaning materials.I still remember losing
Although the panels look so hard and shiny,the plastic will actually absorb certain aromatic chemicals,which alters the materials properties.In the main it increases brittlesness,which results in stress and vibration cracks over time.
The golden rule is wash with water and polish with "pure" polishes if you have to.I use Mer on mine,which seems to be water soluble.Never use chemicals like white spirit to remove squashed flies etc,which I have seen done on site after a summer journey.Never use household cleaning agents (did for 3 mira shower bodies before I sussed what the wife was cleaning the shower with)as these can contain ammonia and other active de-greasers.
My authority for this is 30 years in the vacuum forming industry,moulding products such as mobility scooter bodies.Over the years I had to deal with a number of problems caused by incorrect cleaning materials.I still remember losing
A statement from Bailey on another forum.
Hi
I can confirm that the following caravan cleaning products have been tested by our component supplier and their raw material manufacturer:-
Care-avan Hi Tech Shampoo
Care-avan Caravan Polish
Both items have successfully passed tests relating to compatibility with Acrylic Capped ABS panels and therefore we can confirm that it is acceptable to use either of these two cleaning products on Bailey caravans without invalidating the warranty.
To date no other cleaning products have passed the relevant test procedures and consequently we cannot give any guarantee on the effect they may have on our caravan components.
Best Regards
Nick Howard
Managing Director
Hi
I can confirm that the following caravan cleaning products have been tested by our component supplier and their raw material manufacturer:-
Care-avan Hi Tech Shampoo
Care-avan Caravan Polish
Both items have successfully passed tests relating to compatibility with Acrylic Capped ABS panels and therefore we can confirm that it is acceptable to use either of these two cleaning products on Bailey caravans without invalidating the warranty.
To date no other cleaning products have passed the relevant test procedures and consequently we cannot give any guarantee on the effect they may have on our caravan components.
Best Regards
Nick Howard
Managing Director
Beej wrote:
Just wondering what you all use to clean your caravans after a winter on the driveway.⇦br/>
I must be slipping!! - I got so caught up in the 'damage' debate that I forgot the simple and obvious answer to the original question!
Which is, of course, 'The Wife'........
Just wondering what you all use to clean your caravans after a winter on the driveway.⇦br/>
I must be slipping!! - I got so caught up in the 'damage' debate that I forgot the simple and obvious answer to the original question!
Which is, of course, 'The Wife'........
Yungshian
I hope you are not The Polish King in cognito???
See Rob T's post 17.2.2008 7.30pm.
My 2008 Wyoming handbook says exactly that. It does NOT recommend any particular brand nor have Bailey nor my dealer made it known to me about Care-avan.
I know nothing about all these "tests" and cannot find any reference document to such test.
Because something is approved DOES NOT mean everything else is disapproved.
Cheers
Alan
I hope you are not The Polish King in cognito???
See Rob T's post 17.2.2008 7.30pm.
My 2008 Wyoming handbook says exactly that. It does NOT recommend any particular brand nor have Bailey nor my dealer made it known to me about Care-avan.
I know nothing about all these "tests" and cannot find any reference document to such test.
Because something is approved DOES NOT mean everything else is disapproved.
Cheers
Alan
Hi.
I am part owner of a company that supplies all sorts of cleaning equipment including pressure washers and chemicals.
Best thing I have found so far is, TFR6 then a wash & wax, used together comes up like new. Autoglym is also very good but 10x the price, I know that does not help, but most people seeking help need to know they can buy the items being recommended. I would say this stay clear of anything that contains salts, also pressure washers along with rough pads, finally use the best polish you can get
I am part owner of a company that supplies all sorts of cleaning equipment including pressure washers and chemicals.
Best thing I have found so far is, TFR6 then a wash & wax, used together comes up like new. Autoglym is also very good but 10x the price, I know that does not help, but most people seeking help need to know they can buy the items being recommended. I would say this stay clear of anything that contains salts, also pressure washers along with rough pads, finally use the best polish you can get
Recently contacted Polish king for a sample of Care-avan polish. Received by return post, thanks P.K. very efficient and generous.
Tried on one half of the car bonnet with Turtle wax on the other half a few weeks ago.
For minor reasons the Care-avan was marginally better than Turtle wax.
My local caravan dealer sells the stuff but at a substantially higher price than the Care-avan site.
As I own a 1 year old Bailey I think I'll use the product as there seems to be no reason to risk using something which just might invalidate a warranty claim.
I'd wager anyone reading this or similar threads on other forums will claim they only ever used Car-avan if they need to make a Bailey warranty claim on a plastic panel.
Reckon Bailey need to train a new breed to poish sniffing dogs
to check the truth :0)
Tried on one half of the car bonnet with Turtle wax on the other half a few weeks ago.
For minor reasons the Care-avan was marginally better than Turtle wax.
My local caravan dealer sells the stuff but at a substantially higher price than the Care-avan site.
As I own a 1 year old Bailey I think I'll use the product as there seems to be no reason to risk using something which just might invalidate a warranty claim.
I'd wager anyone reading this or similar threads on other forums will claim they only ever used Car-avan if they need to make a Bailey warranty claim on a plastic panel.
Reckon Bailey need to train a new breed to poish sniffing dogs
to check the truth :0)
hi.i posted a message on another forum a few weeks ago about CARAVAN products.I have been caravaning for over 30 years now and have always polished my vans twice a year with many products.In jan i won a pack of Caravan products.Have only used the wash and wax so far.After a winter on my drive the van was mucky.washed with caravan and no hard work rubbing came up nice and clean.The wax was very easy to use and buffed up very nicely.i waxed the van roof as well in less than 3 hours never been so quick and the end result was fantastic.It may be on the dear side but when you pay 1000s of pounds for a van whats a tenner or so.I have enough for another waxing and when its gone will be getting some more.Dont knock it till you try it.
hi alan.Have used autoglym in the past.Very good.But still like caravan better.Still think car waxes are to harsh for caravans.
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