Feeling vindicated..................

[Vic_5039745]

Often in the past I have been villified and even censured for expressing my views and support of the "Adults Only" sites concept. A letter was even published in PC a few months ago where a woman saw fit to round on me and accuse me of lying.

Now, in the letters section of the November issue of The Caravan Club Magazine, there are three letters all supporting pretty much what I have said all along. One of them was even sent in by a CC site warden.

Perhaps if everyone was to read these letters, those who have been so ready to round on me and others might be able to see the other point of view and be less intransigent about the concept.

I knew I wasn't a lone voice in the wilderness but it just needed for people to stand up and be counted.

Cheers!

Vic

 

[Val & Frank]

No problems for us Vic we try to book sites that don't have the entertainment for children. Conversely our Son Looks for commercial sites that have all the whistles and bells. Good job we are not all the same. Please keep posting your views a lot of people agree, and a lot disagree. That's what being democratic is all about.

Val & Frank

 

[Guest]

We caravan with our little granddaughters quite often and the thought of Adult only sites with some of the moaners and groaners we've come across is as abhorent as kids being left to run riot on family sites.

It's about time Brits stood up to ignorant kids and parents rather than all the PC tosh.

Whilst here in the summer we stayed at a site that will go un-named and ended up in a carner plot with older middle aged couples around us who obviously would have liked it to be adult only.

The first thing my wife heard when she exited the car was rude comments about our van being a twin axle and then the size of it, my regular cheerie Hello to new neighbours received just about audible grunts from 4 couples as I unhitched and leveled the van.

Conversation levels grew louder from the two couples my wife overheard when they were joined by one of the couple friends from the next van.

"can't believe why these people have such ridiculous big vans" and off they went as so we didn't exist. Then I moved the car and they noticed the 4.8s, well that was to much for them. Full sized Awning was also a no no and with the car and big van they found it hilarious that I wound the steadies down by hand rather than battery drill. That was a very funny point apparently! "maybe they can't afford a battery drill" or like comment was made!

Comment on me using a laptop was again quite rude the next morning, obviously couldn't leave my work at home! They obviously were unaware of 3G connection laptop card when I was infact booking our next site on line and transfering money to my UK account and paying some bills.

Our worst crime was the arrival of our granddaughters, I think rabid dogs may have been more welcome. Both girls are very quiet and have very good manners, their polite "good morning" to the couple upposite as they walked hand in hand to the reception shop just got a two blank stares.

I could continue, but the old farts in my book are as just as bad as some unruly families. But at least kids have some life in them rather than the moaners old before their time whingeing and griping about their lot in life and sat around like Derby and Joan hiding behind some trash reading running others down.

Each to their own seems to be this sites motto! And me, I'll keep to family sites when I can where at least kids have a bit of get up and go and they are not some kind of mobile drive in centre as a training ground to the old folks home and where the excitement of the day is if the signal is good enough for Coronation ST, Emerdale and Beast Enders

But you ENJOY Vic ;-) if you feel vindicated that is a positive start to your week.

 

[Val & Frank]

We caravan with our little granddaughters quite often and the thought of Adult only sites with some of the moaners and groaners we've come across is as abhorent as kids being left to run riot on family sites.

It's about time Brits stood up to ignorant kids and parents rather than all the PC tosh.

Whilst here in the summer we stayed at a site that will go un-named and ended up in a carner plot with older middle aged couples around us who obviously would have liked it to be adult only.

The first thing my wife heard when she exited the car was rude comments about our van being a twin axle and then the size of it, my regular cheerie Hello to new neighbours received just about audible grunts from 4 couples as I unhitched and leveled the van.

Conversation levels grew louder from the two couples my wife overheard when they were joined by one of the couple friends from the next van.

"can't believe why these people have such ridiculous big vans" and off they went as so we didn't exist. Then I moved the car and they noticed the 4.8s, well that was to much for them. Full sized Awning was also a no no and with the car and big van they found it hilarious that I wound the steadies down by hand rather than battery drill. That was a very funny point apparently! "maybe they can't afford a battery drill" or like comment was made!

Comment on me using a laptop was again quite rude the next morning, obviously couldn't leave my work at home! They obviously were unaware of 3G connection laptop card when I was infact booking our next site on line and transfering money to my UK account and paying some bills.

Our worst crime was the arrival of our granddaughters, I think rabid dogs may have been more welcome. Both girls are very quiet and have very good manners, their polite "good morning" to the couple upposite as they walked hand in hand to the reception shop just got a two blank stares.

I could continue, but the old farts in my book are as just as bad as some unruly families. But at least kids have some life in them rather than the moaners old before their time whingeing and griping about their lot in life and sat around like Derby and Joan hiding behind some trash reading running others down.

Each to their own seems to be this sites motto! And me, I'll keep to family sites when I can where at least kids have a bit of get up and go and they are not some kind of mobile drive in centre as a training ground to the old folks home and where the excitement of the day is if the signal is good enough for Coronation ST, Emerdale and Beast Enders

But you ENJOY Vic ;-) if you feel vindicated that is a positive start to your week.

Euro wrote " Derby and Joan hiding behind some trash reading running others down ".

Sorry but your comment is trash, how do you know what they are reading ?? you must have been very close.

Now that is tounge in cheek,but the point is Choice if you want Adult Only then Book Adult Only. If you want children running round, albeit well behaved grandchildren then book accordingly.

Val & Frank

 

[Guest]

Ho Ho Frank, some of us older ones can still see quite well and I don't need to be to close to spot a nosy neighbour reading Harold Robbins or Jilly Cooper or using them to hide behind when they are being nosy ;-) My hearing is stiil good enough to hear across a site drive way from my pitch to theirs as they hold a conversation about you behind books as so they cut down the level of their voices.

Have you tried Specsavers Frank, they spend a fortune on advertising as well ;-)

We've met some great people over the years on sites and I don't want to turn into a Victor Meldrew like some we've come across Frank.

A lot of younger caravanners are darn sight friendlier and open minded than some of the old gits and Mike and Jane and Bo and Erin who we met with their young families in Ireland were a prime example of young family caravanners.

"Each to their own" though as the motto goes ;-)

 

[Val & Frank]

Euro

Have you tried Specsavers Frank, they spend a fortune on advertising as well ;-)

How old fashioned of you, do you not know you can have Laser Treatment now to correct your vision ??

My point must have stung a little, if you have to reply in such a vein so quickly !!!

Val & Frank

 

[Guest]

You actually missed by a mile Frank.

Laser surgery is not the cure all that some believe>

I'm still able to get the facts straight on some things ;-)

 

[Val & Frank]

Hi Euro

Just woke after your afternoon nap ??

Val & Frank

 

[Guest]

As you show such concern Frank, we had just got back from lunch at Hampton Court. I was just checking flight details for our flight home as we may want to make a change and go to France on route.

 

[Vic_5039745]

We caravan with our little granddaughters quite often and the thought of Adult only sites with some of the moaners and groaners we've come across is as abhorent as kids being left to run riot on family sites.

It's about time Brits stood up to ignorant kids and parents rather than all the PC tosh.

Whilst here in the summer we stayed at a site that will go un-named and ended up in a carner plot with older middle aged couples around us who obviously would have liked it to be adult only.

The first thing my wife heard when she exited the car was rude comments about our van being a twin axle and then the size of it, my regular cheerie Hello to new neighbours received just about audible grunts from 4 couples as I unhitched and leveled the van.

Conversation levels grew louder from the two couples my wife overheard when they were joined by one of the couple friends from the next van.

"can't believe why these people have such ridiculous big vans" and off they went as so we didn't exist. Then I moved the car and they noticed the 4.8s, well that was to much for them. Full sized Awning was also a no no and with the car and big van they found it hilarious that I wound the steadies down by hand rather than battery drill. That was a very funny point apparently! "maybe they can't afford a battery drill" or like comment was made!

Comment on me using a laptop was again quite rude the next morning, obviously couldn't leave my work at home! They obviously were unaware of 3G connection laptop card when I was infact booking our next site on line and transfering money to my UK account and paying some bills.

Our worst crime was the arrival of our granddaughters, I think rabid dogs may have been more welcome. Both girls are very quiet and have very good manners, their polite "good morning" to the couple upposite as they walked hand in hand to the reception shop just got a two blank stares.

I could continue, but the old farts in my book are as just as bad as some unruly families. But at least kids have some life in them rather than the moaners old before their time whingeing and griping about their lot in life and sat around like Derby and Joan hiding behind some trash reading running others down.

Each to their own seems to be this sites motto! And me, I'll keep to family sites when I can where at least kids have a bit of get up and go and they are not some kind of mobile drive in centre as a training ground to the old folks home and where the excitement of the day is if the signal is good enough for Coronation ST, Emerdale and Beast Enders

But you ENJOY Vic ;-) if you feel vindicated that is a positive start to your week.

You see - this is EXACTLY what I mean. Tou've got it into your head that Adults Only means that the sites are for the elderly only and you couldn't be further from the truth.

Bah!!!!! I give up, I really do.

Vic

 

[Guest]

Sorry to upset you Vic. We have stayed on adults only sites and one in Devon with a wide variety of age groups.

Age aside I would still lump some and the attitudes to that of Old Farts.

Nice site that changed to adult only from when we were there before, so that leaves you a better chance of getting in Vic as we will not be visiting again.

I started life like most of us being very young and as a kid, kids are the future and a little more give and take from kids and those that never wanted to have them or those that have got theirs to adult hood and then want to hide from them is a little sad to me.

Children should learn that some adults are not impressed with their ways and that even if their families sanction certain behaviour kids should respect that others do not and have other standards. It's a shame that we can no longer take our little girls to a site and families here and adult only there remains a sad state of affairs to me be the adults 25 , 45 or 65.

I guess we just fall more into French, Italian and Spanish ways where families lives revolve around kids.

 

[Val & Frank]

One of us is very much off track here Euro,

You don't go away for a weekend or a holiday to teach other peoples children, how to behave. That is a Parent or Grandparent role.You don't want your van dented by a football so you go to an Adult Only site. No one is asking parents with children not to have holidays, what some people are saying is that, they don't want them staying on the same site. Adult only sites should be cheaper than family orientated sites simply from the point of view that play equipment does not need to be supplied. We can't wait to take our grandaughter away with us and we will choose a family orientated site. Horses for courses as they say. hope you enjoyed your lunch !!

Val & Frank

 

[chelsea1]

my hubby and I are both in our early 30's (no kids yet/1 dog) and we LOVE the adult only sites and will continue to use them.

We use adult only in the summer and tend to go to quieter non adult only sites in the winter.

we like kids, but with our dog we prefer a quieter/walking site where we can relax.

 

[allen1]

more and more site owners are changing to adult only sites,not because there is a demand for them (which there is)but because there is far less damage caused to the facilities and far less clearing up to do.This keeps there costs down and increases there profits.My wife and I love to take our 5 year old grandaughter with us for the w/end and term breaks and the squeals and giggles and laughter from children of that age a real pleasure to me and the wife.But I can understand the need for some people to have peace and quiet and thats where the adult only sites are a godsend.When our grandaughter is not with us we use CLs and adult only,its great to have the choice..

allen

 

[Vic_5039745]

more and more site owners are changing to adult only sites,not because there is a demand for them (which there is)but because there is far less damage caused to the facilities and far less clearing up to do.This keeps there costs down and increases there profits.My wife and I love to take our 5 year old grandaughter with us for the w/end and term breaks and the squeals and giggles and laughter from children of that age a real pleasure to me and the wife.But I can understand the need for some people to have peace and quiet and thats where the adult only sites are a godsend.When our grandaughter is not with us we use CLs and adult only,its great to have the choice..

allen

My sentiments entirely, Allen.

Gawd bless ya!!!!!

Vic

 

[Guest]

I don't think we have to go around as teachers tutoring others children, but children are a large part of society.

Adults seperating themselves from children does not exactly help child behaviour especially with all the moans and groans about the bahaviour of UK youth.

It seems like many want to moan about the kids of today including the press and many parents would happily join people on adult only sites if they could abandon kids on family sites up the road a bit.

 

[Moonstone1]

I fully support the freedom of being able to choose which type of site you would like to use. What I object to is that anyone with children is generally tarred with the same brush as someone who kicks the children out 1st thing in the morning leaving them to roam the site destroying other peoples property. This is not the case in 99.9% of caravanners with kids. We caravan as a family and do things as a family and I get fed up with people looking on my children (11 and 14) as the spawn of satan! I believe I have brought my children up well and to respect other peoples property, but occasionally they may or may not always behave, after all they are children. Everyone has been one once and if children receive negative attitutde all the time, they will feel that they can't do anything right at all.

As for adult only sites, can you imagine the hoo-ha there would be if someone opened a 'family-only' site, one which didn't allow singles, couples, or people over 50! Wouldn't happen would it!

 

[CliveV]

I think there is a common thread here that has been missed!

Lord knows I too was hung drawn and quartered in the past for daring to put my head above the Politically Correct Parapet and say that I was feed up with my pitch being invaded by ****** ***'s. (I have blanked this out as some individuals can get rather emotional) This was because a have a dog who is very well behaved but IS territorial. I do not want any sort of accident because it would always be the Dogs fault never the invading child or its head in the sand parent.

The response was as if I had suggested a return to sending children down coal mines at age 7.

I agree with Vic, BUT I also agree with Euro. Having camped, Gite'd and caravaned throughout Europe, most European kids are extremely well behaved. The contrast to the foul mouthed individuals we have come across in the UK is marked.

Only a while ago there was a report that the children in the UK were reckoned to be the worst behaved in Europe. I can believe it based upon my experience.

So when camping abroad - I choose anything but a Brit owned site - in fact I will avoid them like the plague - just in case.

When camping in the UK - I choose adult only sites in the main or a CL - anything to try to ensure that we also have a "good time" rather than just the hooligans some of us seem to be breeding.

Sits back and waits for the verbal "brick" from the "It's Societies Fault - not mine" brigade"

 

[Guest]

The site I mentioned previously had nothing on the site for kids really before it bacame adilt only, our granddaughters love open spaces and enjoy a simple field type site as well as sites with other kids and kids entertainment.

They are happy to sit and paint and read and tramp with us and their dogs on country walks.

Try being a young adult and turning up on on some adult only sites with jet ski, surfing gear etc. My daughter and son inlaw lent their van to his nieace who's a legal legal and their professional friends and they were made to feel most unwelcome at two adult sites.

You can't tar all with the same brush, but being lucky enough to look younger than we are and also being retired we have had experiences that equate to the younger couples.

 

[Moonstone1]

Hi Clive - I am one one of the brigade you refer to, but I must admit I always take responsibility for my childrens actions. We always use CL's ourselves as we don't like the all singing/dancing sites, because they don't suit our lifestyle, and we are seeing more and more families using these. I too don't like children running around vans/pitches and quite understand that dogs are territorial and have advised my children accordingly to value other vanners spaces.

I also agree that British children are some of the worst in Europe and it doesn't surprise me either.

I once saw on a CL, a group of children from 2-3 vans, chase some chickens around the field, in front of another van with a dog, which jumped out of the awning, caught the chicken and killed it. Very sad, (dogs owners so apologetic) but the worst of it was - the parents of the children, sat in their group, drinking and laughing at the whole scene.

 

[Moonstone1]

Hi Clive - I am one one of the brigade you refer to, but I must admit I always take responsibility for my childrens actions. We always use CL's ourselves as we don't like the all singing/dancing sites, because they don't suit our lifestyle, and we are seeing more and more families using these. I too don't like children running around vans/pitches and quite understand that dogs are territorial and have advised my children accordingly to value other vanners spaces.

I also agree that British children are some of the worst in Europe and it doesn't surprise me either.

I once saw on a CL, a group of children from 2-3 vans, chase some chickens around the field, in front of another van with a dog, which jumped out of the awning, caught the chicken and killed it. Very sad, (dogs owners so apologetic) but the worst of it was - the parents of the children, sat in their group, drinking and laughing at the whole scene.

Ooops - meant to say NOT one of the brigade you refer to!!!!!!!!

 

[baxtjhn@aol.com]

Being a parent of 2 and grandparent of 3 children and have been caravanning for 30+years I have seen good and bad with regards to childrens behaviour.

Our own children have nothing but happy memories of the caravan holidays and likewise our grandchildren who join us on about 10 trips per year,we had to change our van to suit the grandchildren.

But.........we have met some kids from hell on several occasions,even had our van damaged due to the dreaded football.

Now my middle grandaughter plays football with her school team and always takes a football on holiday but we make sure she plays in the park and not between caravans.

I feel you cannot blame the children for bad behaviour its the parents to blame,can't be bothered or basically do not give a damn.

Children have to be shown and taught reasonable behaviour and respect for others not just their property..does that make me an old fart,well I would rather be that than the the place it comes out of...(my best effort of being PC).

Thankfully there are loads of normal decent children who go on holiday and have a great tme without spoiling others holiday and I do not mean sitting in the caravan all day and not out playing games and generally having fun.Kids scream and shout when they are having fun ,thats normal.

I remember a few years ago we were on a site on North west Scotland and I had just returned from the shower block when the young boy from the van next door asked if I wanted anything from the site shop as he was heading over to get his dad a newspaper,

I was so taken aback as its pretty rare you get that nowadays,

mind you we had been playing football the previous day just a spur of the moment thing,all us dads and the kids,the young lads team had beat us 2 nil so maybe he was feeling sorry for me.

Sorry for rambling on but feel that one family with mental kids can spoil your holiday but it only takes one small gesture as mentioned above to reinforce your faith in the youth of today..

until the next time that is...regards john.b.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

CliveV I have to agree with some of what you say.

As a nation we have become way too liberal in our treatment of prisoners, drug addicts, terrorists and other people who believe they have an entitlement to rights.

Also our acceptance of bad behaviour in city centres, housing estates even down to the prolific littering that seems to be rife amonst our schoolchildren.

As a parent of 2 young girls I am worried as to what the future holds for them when they are bought up amongst all this.

However there is only one way to deal with this and that is not to except it but to complain diplomatically to the people involved or to higher authorities (parents/wardens/rally officers).

If people do nothing about it than they are actually adding to the problem.

As a rallier with a centre with lots of children, I have to say I have seen little bad behaviour but that is because the kids are told quickly what they are doing wrong by anyone who sees it and they stop.

If the parents are there but do not see what happened they do not launch into defensive mode but find out exactly what happened.

If someone chooses to go to an adult only site - fine, but if they go to a family site and do not inform parents when there are problems - they are, in my mind adding to the problem.

If my kids are misbehaving I want to know about it, please do not be frightened to tell me.

Adults are shaped by what happens to them in their previous life and if they are allowed to stray as kids they will be poorer adults for it.

The worst behaviour I have ever seen has always come from adults - seen the TV programme ASBO OAPs? and I would bet they did not have decent guidance from their peers when they were growing up.

End of sermon!

 

[Guest]

I ended up as goalie at one site so kids could have a game. Where were the parents ?

The next day my wife was asked if I could come out to play, after lunch I went to go wind surfing but was followed by eleven kids who wanted to have a go!

My wife found it hilarious and ended up the next day with kids in our awning painting and drawing with her. She likes a slice of Lemon in her mineral water and two young girls assumed it had to be Vodka she was drinking, now where did that idea come from?

In our experience if you engage children rather than ignore them you find they are not half bad and do have manners and can behave well.

The trouble is UK is so PC crazy you are likely to have some booze soaked salad dodger staggering drink in hand from a lounger worried that showing a polite interest in there kids for the sake of harmony you are something that should be locked up!

And, nice one CliveV.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Sorry I have just thought of an example.

About 5 years ago we had a labrador X who would bark at kids playing on our fence, a 6YO boy threw cement dust over the dog (it burns) I showered the dog off, calmed down and quickly found the boy as he was still covered in cement dust.

I made him take me back to his parents while he told me how his dad was going to knock 7 bails out of me, when we got to the door he ran inside and tried to kick the door shut to stop me talking to his father.

The father came outside and shut the door while I explained the problem to him. 15 minutes later and I got a knock on the front door and the boy apologised for what he had done.

About 6-12 months later the boy ran up to me in the street (off his own back and on his own) and said something like "I am really really sorry for what I did to your dog, is he OK".

I see the boy and father frequently and always get a friendly hello from both now.

I think perhaps the boy is a better person for the experience now but what might have happened if I had ignored it?