Flooding

[Buckman]

Had a bad time yesterday with various roads flooded and returning from an appointment. Luckily we were in the Jeep and I knew the back roads. What amazed me is that people with large 4x4s were worried about entering water that was obviously less than 18" deep. We were using B roads which are only just wide enough for two cars to pass and came across a Range Rover abandoned before a flooded area.

A Suzuki Jimny came through and advised people with normal sedans that the road was impassable to them, but obviously we would be okay. The pickup in front of us pulled out and past the queue of cars and the abandoned RR. We had no issue getting through the water, but at the other side of the stretch of water a DPD white was stopped and also a smaller SUV. We managed to get past both and came across a horsebox being towed by a normal car.

They had done the sensible thing and stopped and off loaded the two horses to walk them through the standing water. There was no way they could turn that outfit around and would have it to abandon it as the river Teme had not yet peaked. Unfortunately a queue of mostly normal cars behind the outfit and with no place to turn around. Anyway got through that one area and another area just as bad further down. I am guessing that many people, had to abandon their cars as no way could they get home.

Attached is the picture of the round about just outside Worcester on the way into Malvern using the A44 nine. To attend our appointment we had to travel into Malvern and took about 10 minutes to negotiate the round about to go into Malvern. Cars going into Worcester were backed up all the way to Malvern. A distance of about 7 miles. Sadly today we have another appointment requiring us to use that round about again however this time we go straight across so hopefully not an issue.

Now the weird parts. Despite being forewarned about the storm and flooding, the Environment agency were very slow installing the flood barriers in Bewdley resulting in homes and businesses being flooded. They spent a lot of money i.e. many millions upgrading the road to the roundabout and the road leading off it where all the traffic is at a standstill as only 2 lanes open. The idea that was the once in a lifetime flood would not block the road when the river Severn which is about a mile away floods over its banks. This is the second time since the upgrade in as many years.

As we have go across the round about again I need a recent update as the river Severn is due to peak sometime today and we do not want to be stuck the other side of the river. Sadly the latest updates seem to be for 5pm last night even though the river is supposed to peak today sometime? Oh dear!

 

[Dustydog]

North Wiltshire was horrendous as usual. A number of roads impassable. Rivers Thames, Key and Ray all burst their banks. Fortunately no property damage.

 

[otherclive]

I don’t think I can recall such widespread flooding around the country. Normally it’s confined to a geographic area. We got caught in the summer 2007 floods in the Severn basin. Travelling from Coventry down the Fosse it was clear Moreton was a no go so we headed west towards Evesham. The Sorento did great and we went on to the M5 southbound only to find the motorway closed just before Strensham services. It was run off from the fields into lanes 1 and 2. Lane 3 would have been passable in a normal car. So we were having an unscheduled overnight stopover. Local radio just couldn’t keep up with the situation as it was dynamic and widespread. Around 0300 the HA started to dismantle the central barrier. Then the police came along instructing drivers to move onto the northbound carriageway head back north. Universal dissent as no one moved as the purpose of such an instruction wasn’t at all clear. Eventually the barrier was replaced.
The M5 opened at around 0700 and traffic started moving south. Except for many lorries where the drivers were fast asleep so the police had to go around trying to wake up the truck drivers as Lanes 1-3 worked their way around the static HGVs.

 

[Parksy]

We're seeing the results of years of poor water management, with vast housing estates being built on flood plains, streams being blocked, hedgerows being ripped out, lack of river dredging and local councils failing to keep drains clear.
There's nowhere for the water to go, even old style front gardens are being block paved to create off road parking.

 

[Paullus1959]

What never ceases to amaze me is how many people think it's the right way to negotiate flooded roads is to do it at speed. If you've got ten minutes to spare take a look at videos of Rufford Ford on YouTube.
The number of cars with flooded engines and broken front and rear bodywork is staggering.
I was taught and used to teach a method of negotiating flooded roads if it was absolutely necessary.
Firstly, consider the height of your vehicle and know where the air intake for the engine is located, many cars, BMW's and some Vauxhalls to name two, have the air intake below the radiator grill which means they can't go through water any deeper than a few inches, especially at any speed. Obviously, the air intakes on 4x4s, SUV's and commercial vehicles are higher than on cars.
Water can't be compressed so any water entering the engine via the air intake is immediately going to cause hydraulic lock resulting in catastrophic engine damage.
Then ascertain just how deep the water is. If it's likely to be deeper than the height of the wheels, don't attempt it. Then select first gear and gently slip the clutch to keep the engine revs high and the speed low. This prevents the exhaust from filling with water and stalling the engine. Low speed prevents a bow wave from forming at the front of the vehicle which may swamp the engine. This can be a problem in an automatic unless you can hold a low gear. Even if the water in the engine bay doesn't reach the air intake it can still cause the engine to stop due to electrical shorts.
Something else to consider is that to a certain degree, cars can float in deeper water which adds the risk of them being washed away if there is a current e.g. where a river or stream has burst its banks.
Finally, try to negotiate the flood in the centre of the road or crown where the water should be shallower.
I would always advocate finding an alternative route if at all possible though but, sometimes that just isn't an option

 

[Buckman]

We're seeing the results of years of poor water management, with vast housing estates being built on flood plains, streams being blocked, hedgerows being ripped out, lack of river dredging and local councils failing to keep drains clear.
There's nowhere for the water to go, even old style front gardens are being block paved to create off road parking.

I agree 100%. Environment agency say no need to dredge rivers, but if rivers become shallow the water has to go elsewhere. On river Severn there are numerous "barriers" and boats have to use the locks to by pass the man made barrier. It is behind these barriers that the silt builds up!

Around Worcester we were astonished to see houses built on what was previously a flood plain and these housing estates are just up the road from the round about in the picture. Even with the floods in 2007 that road one could still use those roads around the round about in question as never got flooded!

 

[Parksy]

I agree 100%. Environment agency say no need to dredge rivers, but if rivers become shallow the water has to go elsewhere. On river Severn there are numerous "barriers" and boats have to use the locks to by pass the man made barrier. It is behind these barriers that the silt builds up!

Around Worcester we were astonished to see houses built on what was previously a flood plain and these housing estates are just up the road from the round about in the picture. Even with the floods in 2007 that road one could still use those roads around the round about in question as never got flooded!

It's the same around Evesham.
When homes there were flooded, new estates continued to be built on the flood plain.
To make matters worse, many new estates have totally inadequate drainage, connected to existing main drains that are already overwhelmed before the estates are finished .

 

[otherclive]

What never ceases to amaze me is how many people think it's the right way to negotiate flooded roads is to do it at speed. If you've got ten minutes to spare take a look at videos of Rufford Ford on YouTube.
The number of cars with flooded engines and broken front and rear bodywork is staggering.
I was taught and used to teach a method of negotiating flooded roads if it was absolutely necessary.
Firstly, consider the height of your vehicle and know where the air intake for the engine is located, many cars, BMW's and some Vauxhalls to name two, have the air intake below the radiator grill which means they can't go through water any deeper than a few inches, especially at any speed. Obviously, the air intakes on 4x4s, SUV's and commercial vehicles are higher than on cars.
Water can't be compressed so any water entering the engine via the air intake is immediately going to cause hydraulic lock resulting in catastrophic engine damage.
Then ascertain just how deep the water is. If it's likely to be deeper than the height of the wheels, don't attempt it. Then select first gear and gently slip the clutch to keep the engine revs high and the speed low. This prevents the exhaust from filling with water and stalling the engine. Low speed prevents a bow wave from forming at the front of the vehicle which may swamp the engine. This can be a problem in an automatic unless you can hold a low gear. Even if the water in the engine bay doesn't reach the air intake it can still cause the engine to stop due to electrical shorts.
Something else to consider is that to a certain degree, cars can float in deeper water which adds the risk of them being washed away if there is a current e.g. where a river or stream has burst its banks.
Finally, try to negotiate the flood in the centre of the road or crown where the water should be shallower.
I would always advocate finding an alternative route if at all possible though but, sometimes that just isn't an option

A neighbour of ours had a bmw 7 series and went to follow a Nissan Micro ( Noddy model) through a flooded section of road. The Nissan had gone through successfully, so away he went. Net outcome was a wrecked engine as the intake was very low.

In. Bradford on Avon where we lived the town Center regularly flooded. One day as the flood was receding the police started to let traffic through the of the town and were telling drivers to drive right through the Center of the flooded area that resembled a large pond. One driver started off fine then fear overcame him and he steered right towards a factory entrance. . The camber dropped away and his car came to a dead stop. Fortunately he hadn’t blocked traffic from continuing to cross straight ahead and over the crown of the road profile. I was okay anyway as my Citroen BX16 went through with its suspension lifted to the high setting, and rock solid with no suspension give at all. But ample ground clearance.

 

[Jcloughie]

A neighbour of ours had a bmw 7 series and went to follow a Nissan Micro ( Noddy model) through a flooded section of road. The Nissan had gone through successfully, so away he went. Net outcome was a wrecked engine as the intake was very low.

In. Bradford on Avon where we lived the town Center regularly flooded. One day as the flood was receding the police started to let traffic through the of the town and were telling drivers to drive right through the Center of the flooded area that resembled a large pond. One driver started off fine then fear overcame him and he steered right towards a factory entrance. . The camber dropped away and his car came to a dead stop. Fortunately he hadn’t blocked traffic from continuing to cross straight ahead and over the crown of the road profile. I was okay anyway as my Citroen BX16 went through with its suspension lifted to the high setting, and rock solid with no suspension give at all. But ample ground clearance.

I once successfully drove through a flood in my Citroen C5. And totally forgot to raise the suspension. Doh.

John

 

[Buckman]

Why is it that people who owned an expensive 4x4 i.e. a RR that is more than capable of wading through flood water simply abandon the vehicle and leave it blocking the road?

 

[Hutch]

Why is it that people who owned an expensive 4x4 i.e. a RR that is more than capable of wading through flood water simply abandon the vehicle and leave it blocking the road?

Because they probably don't know how to drive correctly in those situations, my Santa Fe has a wading depth of 50 cm, but how many people know the wading depth of their cars.

 

[Dustydog]

Because they probably don't know how to drive correctly in those situations, my Santa Fe has a wading depth of 50 cm, but how many people know the wading depth of their cars.

580 mm , 23” for mine. But at a very sensible crawl.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Why is it that people who owned an expensive 4x4 i.e. a RR that is more than capable of wading through flood water simply abandon the vehicle and leave it blocking the road?

Did you speak to the owner of the RR, and find out why they had stopped? I'm guessing you didn't and your just assuming it had been abandoned. Perhaps they had deliberately parked it to prevent others trying to ford the flood.

A about 50m from where I live there is a dip in the road, and when it rains particularly heavily it floods. It may only be 8 inches deep, limited by the height of other drainage points, so the affected owners have installed suitable flood defences to prevent the flood affecting them.

However last year it happened again, and it was just a little deeper so even the wash from vehicles fording the flood even at sensible speed over topping the defenses, but to make it worse, an idiot in a 4x4 was observed at driving through the flood so fast that a big spray washed over properties on either side of the road, and the wash inundated the two properties again.. And the idiot obviously liked it so much he came back three more times to do the same again!

The house holders in the area were abhorred by this senseless action/vandalism and parked their cars either side of the flood to block the road. As it happens there is an easy diversion around the affected section of road.

 

[trevormonty]

Most vehicles including SUVs aren't designed to wade through water. In lot cases water can enter transmission via breather holes.
Couldn't find a wading depth in Vitara manual but it did mention getting car serviced afterwards because water could enter via breathers.

4x4 on the other other hand will typically have wading depth eg 300mm for Jimny. More likely sealed transmission as wading is expected part of offroading.
Exceed recommended wading depth and you need to know where that water can end up as making it through doesn't mean long term damage won't happen.

I'd avoid driving through flooded city streets as manhole lids can pop from storm water pressure . With country roads danger is road be undercut by flowing water. This is especially true if water is flowing across road, also risk getting sweeped away in this case.

Unless someone is in serious danger just sit it out on high ground. Most flooding will subside in 24hrs.

 

[RogerL]

Because they probably don't know how to drive correctly in those situations, my Santa Fe has a wading depth of 50 cm, but how many people know the wading depth of their cars.

Most cars, as opposed to 4wd SUVs, don't have their wading depth quoted by the manufacturer - more useful would be the flotation depth, ie depth at which car starts to float, as that's a serious problem for many cars.

 

[Parksy]

Did you speak to the owner of the RR, and find out why they had stopped? I'm guessing you didn't and your just assuming it had been abandoned. Perhaps they had deliberately parked it to prevent others trying to ford the flood.

We'll never know so don't nit pick to add alternative scenarios.
It causes unnecessary arguments.

 

[otherclive]

Most cars, as opposed to 4wd SUVs, don't have their wading depth quoted by the manufacturer - more useful would be the flotation depth, ie depth at which car starts to float, as that's a serious problem for many cars.

Guess you’ve just mentioned one plus point for an electric car😱

 

[Dustydog]

Did you speak to the owner of the RR, and find out why they had stopped? I'm guessing you didn't and your just assuming it had been abandoned. Perhaps they had deliberately parked it to prevent others trying to ford the flood.

A about 50m from where I live there is a dip in the road, and when it rains particularly heavily it floods. It may only be 8 inches deep, limited by the height of other drainage points, so the affected owners have installed suitable flood defences to prevent the flood affecting them.

However last year it happened again, and it was just a little deeper so even the wash from vehicles fording the flood even at sensible speed over topping the defenses, but to make it worse, an idiot in a 4x4 was observed at driving through the flood so fast that a big spray washed over properties on either side of the road, and the wash inundated the two properties again.. And the idiot obviously liked it so much he came back three more times to do the same again!

The house holders in the area were abhorred by this senseless action/vandalism and parked their cars either side of the flood to block the road. As it happens there is an easy diversion around the affected section of road.

Probably not good for their vehicles parked in flood water good intentions or not??

 

[DeauxChevaux]

Quote -Had a bad time yesterday with various roads flooded and returning from an appointment. Luckily we were in the Jeep and I knew the back roads. What amazed me is that people with large 4x4s were worried about entering water that was obviously less than 18" deep. We were using B roads which are only just wide enough for two cars to pass and came across a Range Rover abandoned before a flooded area.-!!!

Sorry but don't you know that a car of any sort will get dragged away by water of only 30cm deep!

 

[Paullus1959]

I remember Barmouth in Mid Wales flooding in 2014. There is a pub there called the Last Inn which is near the harbour and a listed building with original wooden framed single-pane windows. The water level was lapping the window sills but, planks and sandbags had prevented the pub from flooding so far. (There are actually pictures of this online).
That was until a twerp (polite term) in a LR Discovery ploughed through the water causing a wave which broke a couple of panes of glass and flooded the pub.
My youngest son had his first car, a Renault Clio written off by another twerp in a 4x4 who raced through an easily negotiable flood causing a wave that completely engulfed his car and swamped the engine.
There are plenty of clowns out there who know the capabilities of their vehicles but don't give a damn for anyone else and then there's the clueless!

 

[otherclive]

I remember Barmouth in Mid Wales flooding in 2014. There is a pub there called the Last Inn which is near the harbour and a listed building with original wooden framed single-pane windows. The water level was lapping the window sills but, planks and sandbags had prevented the pub from flooding so far. (There are actually pictures of this online).
That was until a twerp (polite term) in a LR Discovery ploughed through the water causing a wave which broke a couple of panes of glass and flooded the pub.
My youngest son had his first car, a Renault Clio written off by another twerp in a 4x4 who raced through an easily negotiable flood causing a wave that completely engulfed his car and swamped the engine.
There are plenty of clowns out there who know the capabilities of their vehicles but don't give a damn for anyone else and then there's the clueless!

Totally agree. If I have to negotiate a flooded section I will wait until oncoming traffic has gone or stopped. Especially large SUV or WVM. If possible i the use the Center of the road benefitting from the crown and hopefully deterring idiots ploughing towards me.

 

[Buckman]

Did you speak to the owner of the RR, and find out why they had stopped? I'm guessing you didn't and your just assuming it had been abandoned. Perhaps they had deliberately parked it to prevent others trying to ford the flood.

A about 50m from where I live there is a dip in the road, and when it rains particularly heavily it floods. It may only be 8 inches deep, limited by the height of other drainage points, so the affected owners have installed suitable flood defences to prevent the flood affecting them.

However last year it happened again, and it was just a little deeper so even the wash from vehicles fording the flood even at sensible speed over topping the defenses, but to make it worse, an idiot in a 4x4 was observed at driving through the flood so fast that a big spray washed over properties on either side of the road, and the wash inundated the two properties again.. And the idiot obviously liked it so much he came back three more times to do the same again!

The house holders in the area were abhorred by this senseless action/vandalism and parked their cars either side of the flood to block the road. As it happens there is an easy diversion around the affected section of road.

Why should we as the drivers of other cars run around looking for the owner of the vehicle in question?

If smaller SUVs like the Jimny were able to ford the water, what right did the driver of the RR have to prevent others from crossing the ford. If the driver of the RR was so concerned about the safety of people why didn't they walk back to advise that the road was not passable and suggest that an alternative route is found?

 

[Beachball]

We also don"t live to far from the River Trent like what someone said surface water flooding happens when rainwater cannot drain away through normal drainage i even brought some Gravitas hydrosnake expanding water barrier x4 in case we need it .

 

[Buckman]

Quote -Had a bad time yesterday with various roads flooded and returning from an appointment. Luckily we were in the Jeep and I knew the back roads. What amazed me is that people with large 4x4s were worried about entering water that was obviously less than 18" deep. We were using B roads which are only just wide enough for two cars to pass and came across a Range Rover abandoned before a flooded area.-!!!

Sorry but don't you know that a car of any sort will get dragged away by water of only 30cm deep!

It was standing water and not a flowing river. I was trained on 4x4s in Africa by professionals so hopefully I am well aware of what dangers could be lurking. Many cars can ford standing water with no issue. Flowing water is the danger.

 

[Buckman]

4x4 on the other other hand will typically have wading depth eg 300mm for Jimny. More likely sealed transmission as wading is expected part of offroading.
Exceed recommended wading depth and you need to know where that water can end up as making it through doesn't mean long term damage won't happen.

The maximum wading depth of the Jeep Grand Cherokee is about 24" or 61cm. The RR which is higher would not have had a problem. I think the water was about 18" which would cause a problem for a normal sedan.

Someone in another post mentioned that people use cars for block off a road due to flooding however that is illegal if the people do not have the authority even if there is some idiot causing bow waves. They could be blocking off an ambulance or fire engine going to an emergency both of which may have been able to ford the water.