I'm so sorry Colin but I'm lost for words for once in my life. All I can say is I'm surprised your college wasn't shut down.
I'm so sorry.
Lisa
I'm so sorry.
Lisa
I think their is an office of one upmanship somewhere with a few people with to much time on their hand comimg up with rules for who can be called what just so they can have a down on some of us.
It's a pity people are so bothered about policing how others describe one another rather than just getting on with life and helping those in need or with special needs.
I'm sure my late father would rather have had money and time spent researching his illness and disability rather then someone spend money on debates and staff training as to if he were a wheel chair user or was wheel chair bound.
And I'm sure my late mother in-law would have given little thought to if she was termed deaf, hard of hearing or hearing challenged if she could have been afforded the help she needed that she got far to late.
Of course she would not have heard what she was being called for many years as not enough NHS money was in the budget to help her! No doubt staff training budgets ran to training and hand outs about the correct terms to use when addressing her and others.
Sorry if I seem aged in fashion, please do not use the -ld word as I find that so rude ;-)
It's a pity people are so bothered about policing how others describe one another rather than just getting on with life and helping those in need or with special needs.
I'm sure my late father would rather have had money and time spent researching his illness and disability rather then someone spend money on debates and staff training as to if he were a wheel chair user or was wheel chair bound.
And I'm sure my late mother in-law would have given little thought to if she was termed deaf, hard of hearing or hearing challenged if she could have been afforded the help she needed that she got far to late.
Of course she would not have heard what she was being called for many years as not enough NHS money was in the budget to help her! No doubt staff training budgets ran to training and hand outs about the correct terms to use when addressing her and others.
Sorry if I seem aged in fashion, please do not use the -ld word as I find that so rude ;-)
here we go off at a tangent again but thats what forums do is it not.
however I do agree with jason in one respect and that is a open day in a factory is no in no way representative of the way products are normally made. I was in manufacturing for many years after leaving the pit and was present at quite a few open days the difference is unbelievable I have seen firms employ outside contractors and image consultants to spruce up the place just to make an impression, once a team of cleaners spent 4 days steamcleaning every inch of the factory floor just so that if one of the kiddies fell on the floor they did not get there clothes dirty and put on a free buffet that would have made harrods proud all from a canteen that normally only served up egg and chips or beans on toast.
open days are for attracting new customers to their products shown in the best possible surroundings, sorry people but thats how it is I do not belive swift is any different go on any normal day and you won't get into the carpark never mind the factory.
colin
however I do agree with jason in one respect and that is a open day in a factory is no in no way representative of the way products are normally made. I was in manufacturing for many years after leaving the pit and was present at quite a few open days the difference is unbelievable I have seen firms employ outside contractors and image consultants to spruce up the place just to make an impression, once a team of cleaners spent 4 days steamcleaning every inch of the factory floor just so that if one of the kiddies fell on the floor they did not get there clothes dirty and put on a free buffet that would have made harrods proud all from a canteen that normally only served up egg and chips or beans on toast.
open days are for attracting new customers to their products shown in the best possible surroundings, sorry people but thats how it is I do not belive swift is any different go on any normal day and you won't get into the carpark never mind the factory.
colin
ps.
Lisa if you referred to our friend Sarah who was born in Reunion as Black she would not be happy and her two sons would be likely to give you a rather stronger reply. Sarah is a senior medic in the NHS. It would be the same from friends of Indian ancestory who are Malayan and my cousins who are mixed race Indonesians.
Lisa if you referred to our friend Sarah who was born in Reunion as Black she would not be happy and her two sons would be likely to give you a rather stronger reply. Sarah is a senior medic in the NHS. It would be the same from friends of Indian ancestory who are Malayan and my cousins who are mixed race Indonesians.
Ken went to some trouble to give the dictionary definition of forum, but whilst this PC site has become known as a forum, it does not actually conform fully to the definition.
Strictly speaking this is not a public discussion, as you have to register and join before your contributions can be added to the text. This makes it a private discussion, but open to public scrutiny. I believe the legal view is that whilst you have to register with the site owner, the site owner is deemed to be the the editor, and thus all posted material is under their control. Hence it is possible for an aggrieved party to sue the site owner for libel, or to have an injunction raised against them
Unlike parliament where the members are afforded protection from prosecution for slanderous statements, this forum has no exemption from the laws of libel. Older members will recall that in the early days all posts were vetted before being posted on the pages. Understandably, as the forum was operated by volunteers it could take several days before some posts would appear. This was frustrating for posters, as answerers to problems were taking longer to be posted, and the impetuous of a thread could be lost. On the plus side defamatory statements were filtered out, and debates rarely became heated.
The owners took the decision a few yeas ago to allow members direct access to the posting engine. They took the sensible steps of laying out the rules for posting as the etiquette. They hoped that members would take a responsible attitude to posting and self regulate, Sadly some members took the opportunity to abuse the trust they had been given, and started to post unacceptable material and to conduct personal attacks on other members.
As a result more extensive and tougher moderation was introduced. It is regrettable that some members continue to overstep the 'envelope of acceptance' , and then they may feel agreived when their posts are subsequently censured.
We do not have a right to "total Free Speech" on this forum. We are guests, and as such we should observe the wishes or rules laid down by our hosts. There is sufficient tolerance to allow reasoned discussion on most caravan related subjects and a few others without resorting to innuendo or peddling unsubstantiated 'facts'.
Strictly speaking this is not a public discussion, as you have to register and join before your contributions can be added to the text. This makes it a private discussion, but open to public scrutiny. I believe the legal view is that whilst you have to register with the site owner, the site owner is deemed to be the the editor, and thus all posted material is under their control. Hence it is possible for an aggrieved party to sue the site owner for libel, or to have an injunction raised against them
Unlike parliament where the members are afforded protection from prosecution for slanderous statements, this forum has no exemption from the laws of libel. Older members will recall that in the early days all posts were vetted before being posted on the pages. Understandably, as the forum was operated by volunteers it could take several days before some posts would appear. This was frustrating for posters, as answerers to problems were taking longer to be posted, and the impetuous of a thread could be lost. On the plus side defamatory statements were filtered out, and debates rarely became heated.
The owners took the decision a few yeas ago to allow members direct access to the posting engine. They took the sensible steps of laying out the rules for posting as the etiquette. They hoped that members would take a responsible attitude to posting and self regulate, Sadly some members took the opportunity to abuse the trust they had been given, and started to post unacceptable material and to conduct personal attacks on other members.
As a result more extensive and tougher moderation was introduced. It is regrettable that some members continue to overstep the 'envelope of acceptance' , and then they may feel agreived when their posts are subsequently censured.
We do not have a right to "total Free Speech" on this forum. We are guests, and as such we should observe the wishes or rules laid down by our hosts. There is sufficient tolerance to allow reasoned discussion on most caravan related subjects and a few others without resorting to innuendo or peddling unsubstantiated 'facts'.
Exactly Colin!
In reality, supplies run short and the glue is spread a little thinner, or the workman had deadlines to meet and used less to save time. Battery power tolls run low on power and something is not tightened fully.
Or on the other hand someone just can't be bothered to do the job correctly.
There are far to many scenarios within manufacturing to put faith in an open day being a guide to product quality and reliability.
Would Swift or any other manufacturer be open to on the spot inspections from customers at date day and time of their own choice and un-announced.
I doubt it very much.
In reality, supplies run short and the glue is spread a little thinner, or the workman had deadlines to meet and used less to save time. Battery power tolls run low on power and something is not tightened fully.
Or on the other hand someone just can't be bothered to do the job correctly.
There are far to many scenarios within manufacturing to put faith in an open day being a guide to product quality and reliability.
Would Swift or any other manufacturer be open to on the spot inspections from customers at date day and time of their own choice and un-announced.
I doubt it very much.
John L
So how many forums have been sued as posters have stated their problems with a product!
Why do other forums place waivers to cover themselves for what posters place on the site?
If manufacturers turned out quality all the time they would have no worries. Fact is that they do not and this site appears to prevent caravanners raising that point at times.
So how many forums have been sued as posters have stated their problems with a product!
Why do other forums place waivers to cover themselves for what posters place on the site?
If manufacturers turned out quality all the time they would have no worries. Fact is that they do not and this site appears to prevent caravanners raising that point at times.
Damian
Moderator
Hello Jason,
Clearly you are angry with the actions that have taken place with your posts.
Because I did not see the posts that have been pulled and I cannot make a judgement call on whether the moderation is morally right or wrong. It is legally right simply because the the sites owners have control as sheriffed by the moderators.
Let me take your latest points one at a time.
I do not know how many sites have been sued, but there have been sites that have been forced to change or close because of the threat of or actual legal action. This forum was threatened by an insurance company, such that if the company name appeared in contributors postings in a negative context, legal action would follow. Haymarket in their wisdom decided that the threat was sustainable, and consequently all posts with negative reference to the company involved were pulled and the members were asked not to name them in future.
The legal position of waivers is unclear. A waiver is rather like the notice in a car park, where the site operator may try to limit their liability, but if they FAIL to take reasonable care of the vehicles in their spaces, the waiver has no standing.
The forum is like a magazine or newspaper. These latter two publications are edited, and thus the content is clearly the responsibility of the editor and owner. Consequently they do control the content before it is published. This forum is also owned (by Haymarket),. This imposes similar responsibilities on the them to ensure the content of postings is appropriate. If the owner fails to take reasonable care to ensure postings are satisfactory, like the car park operator they are are arguably culpable. Under these circumstances a waiver is not likely to provide any protection to the site's owner.
Previously this forum was fully regulated and submissions were fully vetted before being posted. This was becoming unmanageable for the editor on a voluntary basis. Now Haymarket exercise control by only allowing registered members to post. Membership implies control, and that impresses responsibilities on both the owner and the individual members. If members do not follow the rules set by the owners they must expect sanctions.
We must not forget that Haymarket is also a commercial organisation. They have responsibilities to their shareholders, suppliers and customers. They allow us to use this forum like guests, but if postings on it begin to impinge on the viability of their core activity, guess which will take priority? And they are fully within their rights to do so.
Like you I believe that the manufactures could do a lot more to improve the quality, reliability and fitness for purpose of their products. I have made extensive postings on some of the issues, I have been very critical of some of their design and production methods, and I have issues with their habit of ignoring best practice established in parallel applications.
Perhaps I have been lucky, but none of my postings have been singled out for deletion.
Clearly you are angry with the actions that have taken place with your posts.
Because I did not see the posts that have been pulled and I cannot make a judgement call on whether the moderation is morally right or wrong. It is legally right simply because the the sites owners have control as sheriffed by the moderators.
Let me take your latest points one at a time.
I do not know how many sites have been sued, but there have been sites that have been forced to change or close because of the threat of or actual legal action. This forum was threatened by an insurance company, such that if the company name appeared in contributors postings in a negative context, legal action would follow. Haymarket in their wisdom decided that the threat was sustainable, and consequently all posts with negative reference to the company involved were pulled and the members were asked not to name them in future.
The legal position of waivers is unclear. A waiver is rather like the notice in a car park, where the site operator may try to limit their liability, but if they FAIL to take reasonable care of the vehicles in their spaces, the waiver has no standing.
The forum is like a magazine or newspaper. These latter two publications are edited, and thus the content is clearly the responsibility of the editor and owner. Consequently they do control the content before it is published. This forum is also owned (by Haymarket),. This imposes similar responsibilities on the them to ensure the content of postings is appropriate. If the owner fails to take reasonable care to ensure postings are satisfactory, like the car park operator they are are arguably culpable. Under these circumstances a waiver is not likely to provide any protection to the site's owner.
Previously this forum was fully regulated and submissions were fully vetted before being posted. This was becoming unmanageable for the editor on a voluntary basis. Now Haymarket exercise control by only allowing registered members to post. Membership implies control, and that impresses responsibilities on both the owner and the individual members. If members do not follow the rules set by the owners they must expect sanctions.
We must not forget that Haymarket is also a commercial organisation. They have responsibilities to their shareholders, suppliers and customers. They allow us to use this forum like guests, but if postings on it begin to impinge on the viability of their core activity, guess which will take priority? And they are fully within their rights to do so.
Like you I believe that the manufactures could do a lot more to improve the quality, reliability and fitness for purpose of their products. I have made extensive postings on some of the issues, I have been very critical of some of their design and production methods, and I have issues with their habit of ignoring best practice established in parallel applications.
Perhaps I have been lucky, but none of my postings have been singled out for deletion.
I would just like to put the record straight about our visit days.
The visits in the production area are carried out on a normal working day. It is not an open day it is simply a guided tour around the factory to observe the caravans being built. We have had a couple on a saturday but these visits are not as interesting as it is a factory without people so a bit boring.
Our people do not wear uniforms, in fact this has been commented on by visitors, suggesting there should be a corperate uniform for the people on the shop floor.
Some of our customers have also been shown around the factory on an individual basis without prior notification.
The production managers are informed that visits are taking place so that they are aware for security reasons.
Of course, you dont have to beleive me but I have no reason to lie. Perhaps the cynics should come for a visit.
Regards
Kath
The visits in the production area are carried out on a normal working day. It is not an open day it is simply a guided tour around the factory to observe the caravans being built. We have had a couple on a saturday but these visits are not as interesting as it is a factory without people so a bit boring.
Our people do not wear uniforms, in fact this has been commented on by visitors, suggesting there should be a corperate uniform for the people on the shop floor.
Some of our customers have also been shown around the factory on an individual basis without prior notification.
The production managers are informed that visits are taking place so that they are aware for security reasons.
Of course, you dont have to beleive me but I have no reason to lie. Perhaps the cynics should come for a visit.
Regards
Kath
Facebook
Twitter