Gas boilers may not be phased out , they are starting to introduce hydrogen into the gas line in certain locations and modern boilers can be programmed to burn hydrogen and it can be produced carbon neutral, thats my hope.
- Jul 18, 2017
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I am very surprised that you state there is "a growing body of irrefutable evidence that Heat Pumps can work" when clearly they do not even when they are set up to the correct parameters. A vented or condenser tumble dryer takes 90 minutes to properly dry clothes. A heat pump dryer takes double the amount of time so does it really use less electric?
If we had our heat pump set to 20C it would be running all day to keep the temperature at 20C and it would have to work harder on really cold days. On really cold days it resembles a block of ice and goes into defrost mode. When running in defrost modem the heating in the home shuts down same as when the hot water is being heated up. When the defrost has finished, the home is a lot cooler and again the machine has to work twice as hard to bring the temperature back up again.
How is that efficient as that applies to all heat pumps? In the meantime your electric bill is rocketing. We are looking at an electric bill that is going to be north of £300 for this month! Remember that we only have the temperature at 20C between 6-9am and 4-10pm. The rest of the time it is at 17C. In summer our electric bill averages at about £100 per month.
You have just talked me around, plus we could use the heat pump dryer off peak.
If it uses less than half the power during the running period it uses less "energy" & that's what you are charged for on domestic tariffs. So that would be "less electricity".
This to an extent implies the unit is undersized for the application as it is forced to drop to a low evaporating temperature. There however has to be some drawback with air sourced heat pumps in environs that are simultaneously high humidity and near freezing, where to counter icing up unit size would grow significantly.
Secondly if the house temperature drops "a lot cooler" during the defrost period so quickly, then the house is poorly insulated, suggesting not a suitable candidate for heat pump technology. But, also one that would have required more gas than a more insulated home.
Being "efficient" is not the same as being "effective".
The cost depends on how much we pay for energy we need to buy in.
If you were heating on gas, then presently we pay considerably less for daytime energy quantity than we do for electricity.
With a heat pump, it gathers a significant part of the energy needed to heat the home from outside, thus requiring buying less energy in, however its the more expensive per unit electrical.
With gas all the energy needed has to be purchased.
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- Nov 11, 2009
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There seem to be differences of opinion wrt the effectiveness of heat pumps. They are widely used in Scandinavia where they are replacing electric heating. In Germany 74% of new builds have heat pumps, although the take up in existing properties is around 4%. One significant reason being that the cost and disturbance to install an effective heat pump system in existing properties can be too high for owners to bear. If the heat pump system isn’t designed and installed correctly with regard to the characteristics of existing properties it will fail to work properly, or be very expensive to run. A majority of British properties are notoriously poorly insulated and that makes them ill suited to heat pumps. Ours is very well insulated (EPC at C) but the constraints on water supply to the house currently rule out either a heat pump, or an upgrade to an unvented gas boiler system. Our next door neighbour (85) went through this 2-3 years back and decided just to replace the boiler, whilst a younger family in the close who WFH are moving to a new build with heat pump, and they will have solar panels and batteries installed. They felt they had reached the end of the road as far as upgrading their home without disproportionate expense and dislocation, for no real gain in capital value.
www.bbc.co.uk
Which European nations are winning the heat pump race?
Nordic countries are way ahead when it comes to installing energy efficient heat pump systems.
www.bbc.co.uk
- Mar 14, 2005
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We need to understand that "efficiency" of a system is not the same thing as its "effectiveness". It is entirely possible to have a system that is highly efficient in terms of its energy handling, but if it under sized for the task its effectiveness will be low.
An 1.5kW electric convector heater is 100% efficient at converting the electrical power it uses to heat. But it would not be effective at heating Wembley stadium , but it could be very effective in a caravan.
An 1.5kW electric convector heater is 100% efficient at converting the electrical power it uses to heat. But it would not be effective at heating Wembley stadium , but it could be very effective in a caravan.
- Jun 20, 2005
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That’s spot on Clive and pretty well confirms everything for and against noted over the last 181 posts👍
Our house just isn’t designed for the Air heat pump. To make it work will cost an inordinate amount of money and energy to achieve success.
I find it inequitable that any HMG is trying to force people to buy AHP s by loading the cost of gas boilers and banning them in a few years time.
A time and a place perhaps😉
Our house just isn’t designed for the Air heat pump. To make it work will cost an inordinate amount of money and energy to achieve success.
I find it inequitable that any HMG is trying to force people to buy AHP s by loading the cost of gas boilers and banning them in a few years time.
A time and a place perhaps😉
- Jul 18, 2017
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Thanks as I have been using the incorrect term and you are correct that "effectiveness" should have been used. All heat pumps work with in the parameters of their design therefore cannot be faulty in the eyes of the law or others.
Many would face substantial upheaval to have a heat pump system installed - our house is almost 50 years old, insulated to the standard of the day and "improved" with cavity wall insulation, loft insulation and double glazing - but the radiators would need replacing to cope with the lower flow temperature of heat pump systems and the pipework would also need replacing as it's a mixture of copper microbore and steel small bore - in practice it won't happen until my wife and I pop our clogs and the house gets emptied.There seem to be differences of opinion wrt the effectiveness of heat pumps. They are widely used in Scandinavia where they are replacing electric heating. In Germany 74% of new builds have heat pumps, although the take up in existing properties is around 4%. One significant reason being that the cost and disturbance to install an effective heat pump system in existing properties can be too high for owners to bear. If the heat pump system isn’t designed and installed correctly with regard to the characteristics of existing properties it will fail to work properly, or be very expensive to run. A majority of British properties are notoriously poorly insulated and that makes them ill suited to heat pumps. Ours is very well insulated (EPC at C) but the constraints on water supply to the house currently rule out either a heat pump, or an upgrade to an unvented gas boiler system. Our next door neighbour (85) went through this 2-3 years back and decided just to replace the boiler, whilst a younger family in the close who WFH are moving to a new build with heat pump, and they will have solar panels and batteries installed. They felt they had reached the end of the road as far as upgrading their home without disproportionate expense and dislocation, for no real gain in capital value.
Which European nations are winning the heat pump race?
Nordic countries are way ahead when it comes to installing energy efficient heat pump systems.
I suspect most retired people are in a similar position - which is a big chunk of the housing market.
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- Nov 11, 2009
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Just plan to do as you would with a diesel tow car, buy a new boiler before any ban comes into place. But unlike a tow car you wouldn’t buy a pre owned boiler. But by then gas might be so astronomically expensive we might all be going to electric panel radiators which I had installed in our first home. Absolutely brilliant despite burning the toddlers a few times, but they soon learnt not to use the radiators for support. 😱
- Jun 20, 2005
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According to AI
- Scenario 1 (Average usage):
A 12kW boiler running for an average of 7.5 hours a day at a rate of 16.36p/kWh could cost approximately £5,374 annually.
Not a cheap alternative to a similarly rated gas boiler😉. But let’s not start the old fossil fuel debate again 🙀
- Scenario 1 (Average usage):
Well there is at least one more.
Our property is totally unsuited in respect to its inherent insulation, we also would have the same level of upheaval re radiators and distribution system.
We are fortunate enough to have the land area and an ideal orientation to go ground heat source, but in our mid eighties with significant health issues on hassle alone it simply is not tenable.
Cost wise, yes, its expensive to pour high levels of gas energy into the place. But that cost now and realistically into what is our possible future, paying for energy is going to be way cheaper than, the total for adapting our place into one that is heat pump viable, install it and then its own running cost.
Its not going to happen, despite a desire to help preserve the planet, that has to be tempered with its "hurt" to me and mine. Shame but simply can't cope with it.
- Nov 11, 2009
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Nice thing about panel radiators even back in 1973 was they are 100% efficient, have thermostats on each radiator and the house had timer controlled zones, but no app. But we were not taking out a heating system. All we had was a lounge coal fire, twin burner Valor paraffin heater and Baby Burco for washing laundry. 😂
Now this place where we lived in Cumbria was as cold as sin in winter but it did have a helicopter landing spot at the rear.
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