Great EV towing report from Andrew Ditton

[Tobes]

Just watched a great piece by Andrew Ditton on YouTube. A trip from Scotland to Germany with his EV and a small caravan. He used some pull through chargers, and was able to achieve a theoretical 200 miles on a single charge.
The kia EV6 is an amazing piece of kit.

View: https://youtu.be/HRieGSkoOAQ

 

[ProfJohnL]

Yes an interesting video, but as Andrew makes quite clear the comparison between the EV andthe Navara are not exactly the same, so it's not perfectly clear if the EV journey was actually cheaper, but it certainly took longer becasue of the stops to charge the car.

But the result does show it is possible to tow (a modest caravan) with an EV, which was the stated point of the video.

As things stand at the moment, the charging infrastructure is still far from optimal, and even if EV chargers were as prevalent as fossil fuel refill points, there are still difficulties where charge points are already occupied or not functioning. However the state of affairs is improving, but it's still going to take several years to before we can be as carefree about starting a long journey without planning stops along the way.

I suspect we are going to have to think and plan our travels more carefully as we move forward and past 2030. It will take several decades but the numbers of fossil fuel filling stations will diminish as EV take up increases and becomes the majority form of transport. With less petrochemical fuel being used, the economies of scale will probably push the cost of liquid fuels up somewhat faster than inflation. Petrol stations will close and we could see a reversal of the availability of of petrol vs EV fueling opportunities.

All these changes are likely to encourage more people to opt for EV's sooner rather than later.

Hopefully the planners and developers will see the need to better cater for towing with EV's

 

[otherclive]

That charging hub at Stirling should open a few eyes on what is happening in the field of EV. Must say the EV6 is a very desirable car and looks great.

 

[Beachball]

Just watch it on you tube i would have to agree what a great car the EV6 is

 

[Tobes]

Yes an interesting video, but as Andrew makes quite clear the comparison between the EV andthe Navara are not exactly the same, so it's not perfectly clear if the EV journey was actually cheaper, but it certainly took longer becasue of the stops to charge the car.

Longer yes - though he does point out that was self inflicted, he could have made the journey in the same number of days (if not hours).
Cheaper - I think so. The Airstream is a bit of a beast, so just having access to a suitable tow vehicle would be MUCH harder (Tesla X, BMW iX, a couple of others), but the towing costs would not be much elevated.

But the result does show it is possible to tow (a modest caravan) with an EV, which was the stated point of the video.

Agreed - and actually, it left me looking at such a compact van with new eyes. For 1 or 2 it looked very nice. Though of course he started out with a much more "normal" family sized van.

As things stand at the moment, the charging infrastructure is still far from optimal, and even if EV chargers were as prevalent as fossil fuel refill points, there are still difficulties where charge points are already occupied or not functioning. However the state of affairs is improving, but it's still going to take several years to before we can be as carefree about starting a long journey without planning stops along the way.

Yes- the badly sited chargers going right through a traffic queue were evidence of this, and I have seen similar 1st hand, but the electric forecourts seem to be the way forward.

I suspect we are going to have to think and plan our travels more carefully as we move forward and past 2030. It will take several decades but the numbers of fossil fuel filling stations will diminish as EV take up increases and becomes the majority form of transport. With less petrochemical fuel being used, the economies of scale will probably push the cost of liquid fuels up somewhat faster than inflation. Petrol stations will close and we could see a reversal of the availability of of petrol vs EV fueling opportunities.

Also agreed - though the level of needed planning will reduce as infrastructure increases. Yet another 8 ultra-rapid (150kW) charger station opened in Brackley 2 weeks ago, next to 2 existing 50kW stations, and just round the corner from 2 more 150kW locations. Things are changing quite quickly.

All these changes are likely to encourage more people to opt for EV's sooner rather than later.

Hopefully the planners and developers will see the need to better cater for towing with EV's

Indeed - I have yet to see a pull through charger - but live in hope!

 

[Tobes]

I wonder if EVs would still account for a large number of sales if the tax benefits etc were removed?

I am in the process of buying one as a private car (Fiat 500e). It has basically the same tax benefits as my last PHEV. (0 VED per year, free parking in MKC, free congestion zone and ULEX access). I am getting it because it is excellent to drive, very cheap to run and will hold its resale value very well.
We wont be towing with it

 

[otherclive]

I wonder if EVs would still account for a large number of sales if the tax benefits etc were removed?

None of the four PHEV or EV in our close enjoy tax benefits as the owners are retired, and they are cars not mobility scooters. But whether it is liked or not electric cars will be the norm very soon as sales outshine ICE and makers concentrate their production on electric. It’s not going to go away.

 

[Hutch]

When I retired 8 years ago I bought my SantaFe, If I were to retire now I would probably buy an EV, when we down size, our house I will have another look at EV's. Until then I will keep my diesel tug.

 

[Tobes]

Would you have bought it if you had to pay VED, paking charges, congestion zone charges etc? I doubt if they will hold their resale value, but hope you enjoy it while you can.

Yes, those items are nice but not a deciding factor. My point is, I could have bought a petrol car and enjoy the same benefits. It’s already gone up in value, and I haven’t even taken delivery yet.

 

[macquatic]

Just watch it on you tube i would have to agree what a great car the EV6 is

It would need to be at £44k for the base model!

 

[Tobes]

It would need to be at £44k for the base model!

Indeed. But all prices are sky high. An entry level Ford Fiesta - base model, no options is over £18k.
A base spec golf GTI is over £36k.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I wonder if EVs would still account for a large number of sales if the tax benefits etc were removed?

I have no doubt the EV incentives have accelerated the transition from ICE to EV, but it is only an accelerant, not the prime reason for many individuals or companies. EV's just make a lot more sense than ICE vehicles, and an increasing number of companies can see the additional benefits of reduced pollution, fuel bills and servicing bills.

Of course there are other pressures now such as the bannon the sale of new ICE engined cars and small vans which is bound to have an effect on the take up of EV's

Like it or not EV's will become the major form of private transport over the next decade or so.

 

[Beachball]

It would need to be at £44k for the base model!

The car i have present was not cheap but if you want EV prepare to pay those prices and start saving .

 

[Hutch]

I do see these lovely EV's tesla, Polestar, Jaguar, but how many folk have bought them outright, and how many are company car "perks" maybe the smaller VW, Audi, Mini etc,but will possibly, be on Finance, I think when my fossil fuel burner gives up it will be taxies for me, especially as we don't have buses coming into the village anymore.

 

[Raywood]

200 miles towing is just about the point I would accept an EV.

 

[ProfJohnL]

200 miles towing is just about the point I would accept an EV.

There are some cars that can now approach 400 miles solo range, but they are more esoteric models, and rely on super low Coefficient of Drag (CD) figures to make them efficient. Hitching up a caravan will substantially damage that efficiency, but they might approach a 200 towing range.

I doubt we are going to see much further improvement in CD figures, or electric motors as they are pretty close to theoretical limits, so the last major factor in range is the battery capacity, size and weight.

Even since 2015 we have seen improvements in battery design, and now roughly 25 to 30% more charge capacity can be stored in the same physical size. and the power to weight ratio has also slightly improved, but there are several different new battery technologies in development which potentially could see twice or more the power density of present technology. which should produce similar improvements in vehicle range.

One of the other significant changes in the EV experience is how we are seeing much faster charging rates. There are now a number of 250kW and a few 350kW public chargers, and this now means you can get a useful amount of energy top up in 20 to 30 minutes rather than the "hours" many anti EV pundits will negatively headline.

Managing how you keep an EV with enough charge may require a change to the mindset of using single point refills like petrol and diesel. It also depends on your usage pattern. For any one who can home charge, it takes less than a minute to plug into a home charger with a tethered cable and similarly to unplug. I find it isn't an issue and an overnight (economy 7) ensures I always start from home with a full charge.

 

[ProfJohnL]

When the eco friendly hydrogen replaces EVs, I doubt if there will be range issues.

Presently there is no way of producing a hydrogen car, with a whole life efficiency as a BEV. This has been established independently by several highly regarded sources.

The process of producing enough hydrogen for general use, transporting it and storing it continues to mean that whilst its whole life emissions are better than petrochemicals used in cars, it still fall behind the whole life emissions of BEV.

The energy needed to extract or collect Hydrogen, would be used far more efficiently if used in BEV's

Based on what we know about producing and using Hydrogen suggests it may find some niche markets for transportation, but it will not become mainstream in the bulk of the mobile world.

 

[Buckman]

Presently there is no way of producing a hydrogen car, with a whole life efficiency as a BEV. This has been established independently by several highly regarded sources.

The process of producing enough hydrogen for general use, transporting it and storing it continues to mean that whilst its whole life emissions are better than petrochemicals used in cars, it still fall behind the whole life emissions of BEV.

The energy needed to extract or collect Hydrogen, would be used far more efficiently if used in BEV's

Based on what we know about producing and using Hydrogen suggests it may find some niche markets for transportation, but it will not become mainstream in the bulk of the mobile world.

History has shown on many occasions that mankind has overcome many issues i.e telephone, cars etc etc. when people have said uneconomical, wasteful and who wants that?

 

[Parksy]

And yet again we're back to the same old argument between the same people.
It's been done, if you don't like electric vehicles, don't buy one but give it a rest on this forum please.

 

[Buckman]

Solar powered boats look good and agree with them. See https://thamessolarelectric.co.uk/

 

[otherclive]

Solar powered boats look good and agree with them. See https://thamessolarelectric.co.uk/

Where would I get my “bronzey bronzey” time? 🤣

 

[Jcloughie]

I am in the process of buying one as a private car (Fiat 500e). It has basically the same tax benefits as my last PHEV. (0 VED per year, free parking in MKC, free congestion zone and ULEX access). I am getting it because it is excellent to drive, very cheap to run and will hold its resale value very well.
We wont be towing with it

MKC, ULEX, ? I TRIED TO Google.

For me, the video demonstrated the vast advances that are being made in vehicles and infrastructure. However. For my use profile, they remain far from cost effective.

But in the future, who knows.

John

 

[Tobes]

MKC, ULEX, ? I TRIED TO Google.

For me, the video demonstrated the vast advances that are being made in vehicles and infrastructure. However. For my use profile, they remain far from cost effective.

But in the future, who knows.

John

MKC - Milton Keyens Central. ULEX - typo - Should be ULEZ - the London low emission zone, known a a CAZ (clean air zone) in other cities.

 

[Hutch]

MKC - Milton Keyens Central. ULEX - typo - Should be ULEZ - the London low emission zone, known a a CAZ (clean air zone) in other cities.

Tobes, maybe they all live out in the sticks, also the CC London Congestion Charge, fortunatley Mrs Now has a Blue badge so gets lots of parking perks and Congestion Charges.
But I would prefer her to be fitter and able to walk better.

 

[Tobes]

I just had this email from Milton Keynes council. I don't live there, but am registered for EV info along with my EV parking pass.

Anyone from MK who does not have off road parking wants a contact ?

Dear electric vehicle owner,

ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING TRIAL

Milton Keynes Council will be trialling a new product to channel electric vehicle charging cables from Home chargers through public footpaths to enable charging at the kerb in residential areas in Milton Keynes.

If you are interested in

• registering an interest to be a participant of the trial via email

Sign up today by pressing YES or NO on the Voting Button at the top of this email or simply respond Yes/No if preferable.

Please respond by 7th October 2022. Thank you.