Don’t shoot the messenger. Take it up with the RAC and DT. I merely report what the so called experts are saying🤪. Clearly there is a massive energy crisis on our doorsteps and we all need to know how to survive.
Yeah, sorry DD. That was not aimed at you, but at the paper. That message from the RAC guy has made a number of publications, and it’s widely acknowledged as bo1locks. Most people who drive an EV also have an EV overnight tariff which makes the cost between 1/5th and 1/10th of the rate I mentioned.
There is definitely a cost of living crisis. Times are hard for a lot of people. Those advocating that we should use more fossil fuel because it’s cheaper are delusional.
I am not an EV fan, but I have to agree with you that he is talking through his hat!
Interesting update on this.
1) The original RAC article is here here. They say "“Despite recent falls in the price of petrol and diesel, the cost of charging at home is still good value compared to paying for either fuel, but again underlines just how the rising cost of electricity is affecting so many areas of people’s lives."
2) They published a tweet here that specifically calls out several corrections to other interpretations of what they said, including the refutation that you can fill a jag for £50!
1) The original RAC article is here here. They say "“Despite recent falls in the price of petrol and diesel, the cost of charging at home is still good value compared to paying for either fuel, but again underlines just how the rising cost of electricity is affecting so many areas of people’s lives."
2) They published a tweet here that specifically calls out several corrections to other interpretations of what they said, including the refutation that you can fill a jag for £50!
It won’t change anything. You said “Those advocating that we should use more fossil fuel because it’s cheaper are delusional.”
Delusional I find rather insulting. All I know is our bills are increasing beyond belief. Russia has turned off the gas supplies to Germany. If the UK had planned correctly our contingency plans would have left us almost immune to the energy disaster. Angela Knight has written many recent papers where we went wrong. We took our eye off the horizon and left ourselves at the mercy of others . The UK must be self sufficient even if it means using fossil fuels for a few more decades to help our population survive . We will not be self sufficient for a long time thanks to “Greenies” having no contingency back up plans. Saturday’s DT has a great article on the current diesel cars. They are now almost pollution free and less polluting than the petrol hybrids.
But no one has really come up with a rational answer as to how our oil and gas could be sold below the world price. Capping industry prices or nationalisation would deter investment, so the nub of the problem is how to divorce electric prices from global gas prices. Renewables or nuclear are two options. But that still leaves the problem associated with 80% of UK houses and many businesses are heated by gas, and a speedy change to air or ground source heat pumps is unlikely given costs and the need then for increased grid generation. UK is not short of energy and is in a stronger position than several European countries, it’s the cost that’s punitive. But most specialists consultancies and think tanks are predicting energy will stay high for some years to come until a balance is obtained that isn’t strategically dependent on Russian supplies.
DD - two aspects to this conversation.
1) Cars :- Diesel and petrol cars are "almost" pollution free, meaning - they pollute, and that is ignoring CO2 which is far from zero, and they are still and will remain more expensive to run than EVs. EVs are still out of reach of many, but that does not change the fact that using more fossil is more expensive than using less.
2) Cost of living and energy :- The increasing bills are ALL down to the cost of fossil fuel. Gas in particular. Long term cost reduction is about using less fossil fuel not more. Choosing not to insulate homes, or renew the mass undersea gas storage, was not a "greenie" decision. Neither was not pushing forward with more wind sooner. And to be clear - almost all the gas the UK uses, comes from the North Sea - either direct or via Norway. Today, the UK is exporting gas to Europe via pipelines. We are not short of gas, we are subject to the global marginal market price. Drilling more and burning more wont lower that price. Fixing the mad way the UK electricity market operates might help.
As of 1620 GMT today 45% of our electricity was being generated using gas, and 45% by nuclear, biomass, solar, and wind. Even 4% by coal which is quite unusual these days. Of course then there is the gas used by domestic and business, probably quite low at present, but undoubtedly rising in volume as the colder weather draws onwards. But worry ye not, at 0730 this morning we were promised one new nuclear power station per year 😂😂😂
It seems different people have different interpretations of the meaning of "cost".
The financial interpretation of valuing in terms of currency, is at present an ever changing (generally increasing) cost and the differentials between alternative fuels and applications also have a geographic and political influences.
However the environmental impact ("costs") of different technologies are more consistent, and there is a wealth of highly respected studies and reports that conclude that using fossil fuels (especially in motor vehicles) has much bigger lifetime environmental impact than switching to renewables and producing electricity.
Consequently irrespective of how hard it might hit our pockets, there is still an environmental benefit to going electric.
The financial interpretation of valuing in terms of currency, is at present an ever changing (generally increasing) cost and the differentials between alternative fuels and applications also have a geographic and political influences.
However the environmental impact ("costs") of different technologies are more consistent, and there is a wealth of highly respected studies and reports that conclude that using fossil fuels (especially in motor vehicles) has much bigger lifetime environmental impact than switching to renewables and producing electricity.
Consequently irrespective of how hard it might hit our pockets, there is still an environmental benefit to going electric.
And the more fossil fuel you need, the more expensive your electricity...However to generate electric we still need fossil fuel.
A smiley face does not change the fact that your statement is inaccurate, and certainly not humorous.However to generate electric we still need fossil fuel.
There are ways of generating electricity that does not require fossil fuels.
Whether fossil fuels are needed generate electricity is very much dependant on where you are in the world. But even if fossil fuel is used to generate electricity, it is a well established fact that burning it to generate electrons to be used in an EV is still more efficient, than burning it in an ICE, meaning less fuel is used to do the same amount of work.
However it is another irrefutable fact that as time goes by an increasing amount of electricity will be generated from renewables or lower carbon producing means around the world, and especially here in the UK, so we are already reducing emissions, and it will only improve as more renewables come on line.
The changes in our financial fortunes may affect the rate of decarbonisation in the UK but it won't stop it.
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As the Prof says it depends on how you charge it. Octopus and I think EDF have special tariffs for charging EVs and these will show a good saving. The catch is probably you would need a new contract and might end up paying far more for your domestic power.
Here the local authority chargers are free so my Neighbour who has one can cut costs even further although he admits this is likely to be taken away at some point.
Charging at motorway services though can be very expensive and at some will be more expensive than using petrol or diesel but at their fuel prices even those fuels cost the earth.
With proper care as to recharging you should be better off with an EV, but as with everything there are pitfalls.
Here the local authority chargers are free so my Neighbour who has one can cut costs even further although he admits this is likely to be taken away at some point.
Charging at motorway services though can be very expensive and at some will be more expensive than using petrol or diesel but at their fuel prices even those fuels cost the earth.
With proper care as to recharging you should be better off with an EV, but as with everything there are pitfalls.
Unlike petrol / diesel, EV rapid chargers don't vary in price by location (e.g. MSA vs Supermarket), but more by charging network. About the most expensive today are Ionity (still) at 66p/kWh. With an "average" EV getting 3.3m/kWh (real world) (some get waaaay more) thats 20p per mile. At £1.70 per litre that equates to 38mpg real world average. At £1.90 per litre that equates to 42mpg real world average. Not sure how may cars really get 42MPG average (but I am out of touch with petrol and diesel MPG these days). Without the plugin bit, my V60 PHEV diesel acting as hybrid only (i.e. on a journey started with a depleted battery) used to get about 42mpg.
My local BP is charging 175.9p/l for petrol and 188.9p/l for diesel today.
The M1 J15A (Rothersthorpe) MSA is 189.9 and 197.9 respectively.
As a business, public EV charging is not subject to the consumer price cap, so the price you pay reflects the real state of the energy market. It has changed far more frequently in the last year than the home energy prices.
I find that it beggars belief that a local authority provides free charging for electric vehicles. Surely they have more deserving things to spend taxpayers money on.
There are a number that do. I believe that many use central gov grants to do so which are dedicated to EV adoption. It seems a bit odd to me too that this is sometime still available.
My grandson has a 5 series BMW PHEV and commented recently how the cost of electric for the car had made a significant increase to their energy bills. He uses it quite a lot locally as he works from home whilst his partner studying is at Bristol University and works at a medical assistance service. She doesn’t drive so he chauffeurs her around.
In November when their lease ends they are moving back in with our daughter and as we are still on a cheap tariff until April 2023 the BMW will be charged up here. Our energy bills are normally quite manageable like this last month it was £43 for gas and electric. Our direct debit since April 2021 has been £80pm and we’ve never been in negative territory.
Interesting programme on Monday night about the stupid way all our energy is linked to the price of gas, rather than just for gas used... No matter how elec is generated, the price is calculated by the price of gas! The elec generators using nuclear or renewables are laughing all the way to the bank!
On the contrary, BEV (battery electric vehicles) outsold PHEV almost 3:1 in August and more than 2:1 year to date. The tax breaks on PHEV are big, but on BEV are much bigger.
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Seeing the designs of new BEV cars there are some really attractive designs on offer, and some Chinese companies are now making direct offerings, at prices and specification that will put the established companies under some pressure. So its likely that before too long the price of BEV will come more into mainstream range. Although with inflation and the drop in the value of sterling ”cheap” wouldn’t necessarily be a good descriptor.
The new MG 4 looks to be just that. Starting at 25k for a golf sized car, or 28K in the long range version - over 250 miles range, and 10K cheaper than the VW equivalent, with a 7 year warranty to boot.
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