Haven Holidays - Naff

[Paul_5064559]

As a CC member we get used to a certain site standard but made the mistake earlier this summer when loaning our van to our Daughter and Husband with their 2 year old.

We all thought that Havens Burnham site looked to offer them facilities that would appeal given the need to entertain our grand-daughter.

However what a disappointment was in store when we arrived to find such a scruffy and run down touring area with piles of uncollected rubbish and of course frequent sightings of rats!!!

Thankyou very much Haven Holidays but you are the pits. Your publicity is a complete lie.

 

[DanPaula]

What a shame - we were at the Burnham On Sea site in June and thought it was kept lovely, nice and clean etc. Site was one of the best Havens we had been to. The pitch was better that some C&CC sites. We were on Hard standing super pitch though. Toilets were always clean never used the showers but we never do anyway always use the one in the van. We only go because our little boy loves the characters and at least you get a little bit of entertainment and there is loads to do for the family. Maybe it was because of the summer holidays???

 

[Murdan]

Can't comment on the site you were on but I have been to quite a few haven sites and for the money paid can't complain and I have always found the touring area clean and tidy.

 

[Parksy]

While I sympathise with your disappointment and your desire to alert other forum members to the conditions that you experienced I have to ask you to read rule 4 of the forum etiquette at the top of the webpage in the pale blue box.

Perhaps you could seek some redress from the company concerned?

Good Luck

 

[DanPaula]

Hey yeah - that is a point we had a dreadful holiday in a static at a Haven site in Wales - the site called Quaywest was lovely but the static considering it was a GOLD standard was shocking. They give me

 

[Angus1]

Very naught, Paul.

Parksy is correct in that you can`t post such things on here.

Post edited by forum Moderator

Hope this helps.

 

[LMH]

We stopped at the site in Mablethorpe about eight years ago (touring bit), wouldn't go back.

Lisa

 

[Angus1]

Oops, I appear to have been modded!

Not to worry, the mods are only puppets doing the bidding of their masters.

Right Paul, I shall attempt to explain why you cannot posy derogatory things about certain companies.

Practical Caravan is a business, whose sole reason for existence is to make money (nothing wrong with that, thats what businesses are all about). Rather than spurious mumblings about law suits, they will not accept anything which would upset a major advertiser with this mag or any in the group. Have you ever seen a site review that describes a site as dirty, cramped, muddy with a toilet block resembling an open sewer? Of course not, but they exist, but he who pays the piper calls the tune.

The magazine could not exist without advertising, and given a choice between losing a major advertiser and a losing a couple ( or even a couple of hundred) disgruntled readers - well there isn`t a choice.

So you see Paul, in cases like this, you just don`t count, and neither do your views, mine or anyone elses come to that, unless it conforms with what they wish to see in print.

If I was to have ten new names with new addresses, and systematically heaped praise on a chain of sites that Id never even been to ,no-one would bat an eyelid.

Ever read 1984?

 

[Zafiral]

Perhaps the hint is in the topic title.

Give and get recommendations for the best.......

 

[Parksy]

Angus

What a shame that you have to resort to insult whilst dismissing the action that I've taken in editing your post.

I'll attempt to explain the reasons for my actions to you.

Paul's original post was in clear breach of forum etiquette.

I pointed this fact out to him without altering or deleting any part of his post.

I took the trouble to email Paul to give the reasons behing my somewhat public rebuke concerning his post.

You then decided some time after the original post was made and despite my comment asking for the observation of rule 4 to breach forum etiquette yourself in blatant disregard of my actions.

I take that as an insult.

I myself edited your breach of forum etiquette without fuss or undue comment but you have decided to dismiss this with further insult. I quote:

'Not to worry, the mods are only puppets doing the bidding of their masters.'

I haven't insulted you on this forum so I'm puzzled as to why you think that it's alright to insult me.

You appear to disagree with the rules of this forum.

That's fine, I don't always agree with various rules that apply to me, both on this forum and in my day to day life.

I have to abide by the rules.

As far as this forum is concered so do you.

 

[Iain_5062081]

I hear witch hazle is good for the bruising, Angus!

We went to the Haven at Burnham last year and were appalled at the service provided to the touring side of the park. Swore we wouldn't use Haven again.

However, went to Kiln Park this year and whilst the weather was dreadful and the park flooded, the staff were helpful, friendly and informative.

Iain

 

[Angus1]

I`m sorry you have taken my posting as a personal insult, Parksy, as it certainly wasn`t intended as such.

I do stand by my "puppets and masters" statement as you have confirmed that although you (quote)"don`t always agree with the various rules that apply to me", you do enforce them, hence there appears to be little latitude and you are indeed doing the bidding of your masters. That obviously comes as part of the `moderator` job, which you either accept or not.

By not readily accepting the somewhat disingenuous reasons for not criticising certain large advertisers (I note that there have been scathing posts about both CC and C&CC clubs in the past with no moderator intervention), that doesn`t make me in breach of the site rules.

I accepted the removal of my earlier posting without question or complaint, but it would appear my explanation of the rationale behind the `don`t criticise the advertisers` policy has hit a nerve.

As a poster I also accept I have no given right to post what I want on here, but let us not be blinded that this is part of a commercial venture which is designed to promote P.C as opposed to an `open forum`.

As I said earlier, nothing personal old chap. I was not attempting to `shoot the messenger`.

 

[AlexC]

Och Angus, dinna greet will ye.

It's no your hoose, if yir no happy, leave.

I don't care why the site is here, who owns it, or any o that rubbish. I'm just happy that it's here.

Seen this loadsa times on different forums, it gets tiresome after a while

Apologies if this sounds harsh, but in my opinion you were harsh to Parksy.

Alex.

p.s. and before you say it, Yes I will stop reading the thread because I find it tiresome.( not the initial point re- Haven, I hasten to add )

 

[Parksy]

Hi Angus

I think that you're missing my point.

I edited your first post because you had done what I'd recently asked Paul not to do.

I've absolutely no idea if Haven spend large or small amounts in advertising revenue with Practical Caravan or any other magazine.

You obviously doubt my word but I can assure you that advertising revenue is no concern whatsoever of mine or any of my fellow forum Moderators.

All internet forums have rules and the rules of this forum such as they are can be found as described in my original post.

By joining any internet forum we are agreeing to accept the rules of that forum.

I feel insulted not because you allude to commercial interest, if you choose to believe that so be it.

If I ask a forum member to refrain from doing something i.e. breaching a rule in forum etiquette I wouldn't really expect another forum member to read the post and then knowingly do exactly the same thing in blatant disregard of my request to the original poster.

I reiterate, that to me is an insult.

I'll deal with your point regarding the two major clubs.

The clubs are just that - clubs and they belong to the members of the clubs who are naming them on the forum.

There are enough club members who post on this forum to give a balanced view and a wide spectrum of opinions regarding their clubs.

You will doubtless observe that in various parts of this thread I've allowed both good and bad points to be raised in which the company concerned is named.

When a statement appears simply saying that this that or the other company is rubbish and not dealing with specifics then Moderating input becomes inevitable.

The forum rules are designed to protect small businesses as much as the 'big boys' who are quite capable of looking after themselves and addressing and dealing with any criticism levelled at them.

We as a forum have no mechanism to check the accuracy of posts that appear on the forum and the naming of businesses could potentially do untold damage to a small firm who may not be aware of what was written about them. As a forum we can't deal with customer complaints, it's not our job.

With your 'puppets and masters' anology forum rules are there for all to see and I have to abide by them in the same way that every member of this forum does.

There are additional rules that apply to forum Moderators but they are more to do with protecting members in general.

I've attempted to use my discretion as far as this thread is concerned. If I were the 'puppet' that you describe I'd have simply deleted the whole lot as soon as it appeared.

You mention the fact that I enforce the rules with little latitude in order to do my 'master's' bidding.

Again, thats your view.

I shouldn't have to 'enforce' anything really should I?

I would have hoped that common sense would come to the fore.

Please be my guest in letting all and sundry have the benefit of your great wisdom as regards internet forums and advertisers.

Please dont imagine that you are able to hit any of my nerves in this respect.

In replying to you I was simply attempting to do you the courtesy of explaining the reasoning behind my actions.

Best of luck in finding an internet forum where the rules don't apply to you, let me know which one it is won't you?

 

[Angus1]

Hi Parksy,

Thank you for eloquent reply, but I would have appreciated it more if you would have read my posting first.

First off, at no point have I suggested that `the rules don`t apply to me` exactly the opposite in fact.

Also, I took great pains to point out that I appreciated mods were carrying out directives from above, so you would not be expected to be aware of the commercial pressures behind many decisions.

And lastly, the Caravan "Club" ( of which I am a "member") is not a club but a private limited Company (as is well known and publicised) and so should be afforded the same degree of protection as commercial activities on the forum.

But lets not let facts get in the way, eh?

Thats it, my last statement on the matter.

Best regards to all.

Angus.

 

[PaulHull]

Whilst trying to avoid being hit by any handbags (hehe) - here's my response to the original post.

I've so far this year stayed at Blue Dolphin (Filey) and Golden Sands (Mablethorpe). Next week I am staying at Primrose Valley and in a months time I'm returning to Blue Dolphin.

I found Blue Dolphin to be a very pleasant site, perhaps a little dated but as a base to explore the local area it was perfect. If I chose to use the site facilities I could (and did) but didn't have to if I didn't want to. This 8 night stay cost

 

[Paul_5064559]

Whilst trying to avoid being hit by any handbags (hehe) - here's my response to the original post.

I've so far this year stayed at Blue Dolphin (Filey) and Golden Sands (Mablethorpe). Next week I am staying at Primrose Valley and in a months time I'm returning to Blue Dolphin.

I found Blue Dolphin to be a very pleasant site, perhaps a little dated but as a base to explore the local area it was perfect. If I chose to use the site facilities I could (and did) but didn't have to if I didn't want to. This 8 night stay cost

 

[hogrider56]

Hi Angus

I think that you're missing my point.

I edited your first post because you had done what I'd recently asked Paul not to do.

I've absolutely no idea if Haven spend large or small amounts in advertising revenue with Practical Caravan or any other magazine.

You obviously doubt my word but I can assure you that advertising revenue is no concern whatsoever of mine or any of my fellow forum Moderators.

All internet forums have rules and the rules of this forum such as they are can be found as described in my original post.

By joining any internet forum we are agreeing to accept the rules of that forum.

I feel insulted not because you allude to commercial interest, if you choose to believe that so be it.

If I ask a forum member to refrain from doing something i.e. breaching a rule in forum etiquette I wouldn't really expect another forum member to read the post and then knowingly do exactly the same thing in blatant disregard of my request to the original poster.

I reiterate, that to me is an insult.

I'll deal with your point regarding the two major clubs.

The clubs are just that - clubs and they belong to the members of the clubs who are naming them on the forum.

There are enough club members who post on this forum to give a balanced view and a wide spectrum of opinions regarding their clubs.

You will doubtless observe that in various parts of this thread I've allowed both good and bad points to be raised in which the company concerned is named.

When a statement appears simply saying that this that or the other company is rubbish and not dealing with specifics then Moderating input becomes inevitable.

The forum rules are designed to protect small businesses as much as the 'big boys' who are quite capable of looking after themselves and addressing and dealing with any criticism levelled at them.

We as a forum have no mechanism to check the accuracy of posts that appear on the forum and the naming of businesses could potentially do untold damage to a small firm who may not be aware of what was written about them. As a forum we can't deal with customer complaints, it's not our job.

With your 'puppets and masters' anology forum rules are there for all to see and I have to abide by them in the same way that every member of this forum does.

There are additional rules that apply to forum Moderators but they are more to do with protecting members in general.

I've attempted to use my discretion as far as this thread is concerned. If I were the 'puppet' that you describe I'd have simply deleted the whole lot as soon as it appeared.

You mention the fact that I enforce the rules with little latitude in order to do my 'master's' bidding.

Again, thats your view.

I shouldn't have to 'enforce' anything really should I?

I would have hoped that common sense would come to the fore.

Please be my guest in letting all and sundry have the benefit of your great wisdom as regards internet forums and advertisers.

Please dont imagine that you are able to hit any of my nerves in this respect.

In replying to you I was simply attempting to do you the courtesy of explaining the reasoning behind my actions.

Best of luck in finding an internet forum where the rules don't apply to you, let me know which one it is won't you?

Rules, or no rules, I think we would all like to know if someone finds a certain site unnacceptable...so we can all avoid it. I'd rather read and hear something bad, so that I can make my own choice, rather than read what you think I should read!

Full marks for the guy who made the original posting...I walk past the Haven tourer park at Mablethorpe every weekend...and trust me...it is disgustingly dirty and unkempt.

 

[Parksy]

Rules, or no rules, I think we would all like to know if someone finds a certain site unnacceptable...so we can all avoid it. I'd rather read and hear something bad, so that I can make my own choice, rather than read what you think I should read!

Full marks for the guy who made the original posting...I walk past the Haven tourer park at Mablethorpe every weekend...and trust me...it is disgustingly dirty and unkempt.

The Moderators of this forum have to apply the rules and any actions that we take have nothing to do with what we think that you should read.

If you disagree with the rules that apply to this forum then the best thing to do is to find a forum where the rules are more to your liking.

 

[PaulHull]

Just got back from Primrose Valley and thought that the site was exceptionally good. Plenty to do during the day (including getting thrashed by my brother-in-law on the go karts) and great entertainment on the night time. My daughter loved the kids shows and the parks. Plenty to do around and about and will definetely return next year.

...and not a sing rat Paul, just plenty of bloody wasps.

 

[will2]

Hello Paul

Have you been to any other Haven sites?

Primrose Valley has a very good touring park all the roads are tarmac and all the pitches are hard standing.

The only letdown is the area for the awning which is grass and does get very muddy, like any other site with grass.

 

[PaulHull]

Hi Will,

Yes the hard standing is excellent but I cannot see how a grass awning area is a let down as you cannot peg an awning down into concrete (although they do now have an experimental concrete awning pitch). Also cars do not park on the grass to prevent them making it boggy, they park on a concrete space in front of your van.

This year we've stayed at Blue Dolphin which we were pretty happy with. It's a little dated compared to Primrose Valley and the touring area is very uneven and hilly but for use as a base to explore the local area its fine, although we'll use Primrose Valley from now on because its 5 miles down the road, the same price if you book early and has all the amenities.

We also stayed at Golden Sands in Mablethorpe which we were a little disappointed with. The touring area is very nice and clean but it over a miles walk away from the main site (it has another caravan park inbetween) which lets it down a little but Mablethorpe itself is lovely and is not far from Skegness or Cleethorpes.

We've just booked for next year at Thorpe Park which is right next to Pleasure Island at Cleethorpes. The touring area backs onto the beach and is right next to the amenities. On the day we visited the RAF were bombing at the nearby RAF Donna Nook which may annoy some people but it was great to watch!

We'll also be returning to Primrose Valley next year - if you book early (i.e. now) you can get some very significant discounts. We've got a fortnight and Primrose Valley in May and a week at Thorpe Park in June for just over

 

[whitetop]

RULE 4

You may not transmit complaints about named companies or caravan parks. Such individual issues should be taken up with the company direct.

Sorry Parksy, but why not.

Your mag is about giving advice and assistance to caravanners.

Or is it a case of "as long as our advertising revenue is not compromised"..

The magazine and this forum are popular because of the members and people who buy the mag. The advertisers buy the space because of that, not the other way round......as they say the customer is ALWAYS right.......

Instead of giving negative posters a "slap on the wrist", perhaps you should point out to the companies / advertisers, in this case Haven, that there are people with genuine concerns / complaints.

To moan at the poster of a topic and not to do so to the company is, IMO, disgraceful.

The original post was a valid one......and did not deserve the "big brother mod" approach.

Some posters have been positive......are their comments more worthy ???.....cos they don't bad mouth a magazine sponsor.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

I agree with paul that he should be allowed to warn us as fellow members about naff sites.

thanks paul i wont be wasting my money going thee then.

freedom of speech and all that.

jo-anne

 

[Parksy]

In answer to the post made by David who takes issue with the rules of the forum

For a start it's not MY magazine, I don't work for them.

I have no contact with advertisers and so fail to see how I would be in any position to express complaints and grievances, genuine or not, to these companies.

Neither am I in any position to 'moan' at any company.

If you were paying attention you'll observe that I haven't altered the original post in any way, I simply asked the original poster to have a look at forum etiquette so I'm sorry if in your opinion this constitutes a 'big brother mod' approach.

'The customer is ALWAYS right' you say, well maybe the customer should take his complaint up with the company concerned.

By joining this forum our 'customers' agree to abide by the rules of the forum.

The rules of this forum clearly state the position as far as naming companies on the forum is concerned.

Some posters have indeed been positive and I am not here to judge the validity of posts. The positive ones don't compromise forum etiquette.

Nobody was ever sued for praising a service.

For those who wish to completely disregard forum rules and etiquette by naming companies in a way that is potentially litigious when find a caravan internet forum where this is allowed I would respectfully suggest that you use it.