HELP NEEDED

[frantastic]

hi i am new to caravaning and have just brought a bailey senator oklahoma 2003 lenght 23'10"
miro 1222kgs mtplm 1491kgs and was looking into buying a
ford mondeo diesel estate 2.0l tdci titanium x year 08 and was really needing assurance that this car would be ok for towing and was wondering if you could help with my quiery many thanks

 

[dougie201]

Hi frantastic.

Do you know the kerbweight of your Mondeo? If you get its kerbweight which should be on the logbook then divide that by 100 then multiply by 85, this will give you the recommended 85% . Of the top of my head your car would need to be around 1700kg. But you can legaly tow upto 100%. Also check the manufacturer legal towing weight which hopefully will be 1500kg or more.

Dougie.....

 

[emmerson]

Hi Fantastic, and welcome. I can't speak for the Mondeo, as I've never owned one, but they do appear to be well-liked on this forum.
However,(and this is a purely personal opinion) I would say that it would be rather under-powered for such a large van. As the old saying goes "there ain't no substitute for cubic centimetres".

 

[Gafferbill]

Hello frantastic and welcome to the forum.

You may like to view these Practical Caravan guides.
They explain what you need to find out to decide on a suitable tow car for your caravan and if you are currently licensed to drive it.

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/info-you-need-you-buy-towcar
　
http://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/are-you-licensed-tow

.............info on Mondeo Estate to be found here under technical specification heading.

http://www.buyanewcaronline.co.uk/ford/mondeo/mondeo-diesel-estate/2.0-tdci-140-titanium-x-5dr/

 

[Parksy]

Hi Fran'tastic', welcome to the Practical Caravan forum and welcome to the hobby of caravanning.
I don't own a Mondeo but the figures that I found on the internet (which are not guaranteed to be accurate) seem to suggest that the minimum kerbweight of the Mondeo would be 1575kg and the absolute maximum weight that you could tow with this vehicle would be 1800kg.
Clubs and organisations including the Caravan Club and Practical Caravan recommend that those inexperienced in towing aim for a figure of 85% of the towing vehicle's kerbweight which would give a figure of 1,338 kg as an ideal towing weight for the Mondeo, so the caravan might be a bit on the heavy side for this particular vehicle although the weight would be within legal limits.

 

[frantastic]

thanks for all your help, we havent brought the car yet but have found minium kerb weight of 1590kg

 

[RogerL]

thanks for all your help, we havent brought the car yet but have found minium kerb weight of 1590kg

It's not a rule but The Towing Code recommends using a maximum caravan of 85% for beginners, which would mean a caravan less than 1350kg MTPLM with a 1590kg car.
If you passed your driving test after 1st Jan 1998, you'll also be limited to a maximum outfit weight (plated weight not actual) of 3500kg so going for a heavier towcar would actually mean a reduction in caravan weight!
To tow a 1491kg MTPLM caravan as you've bought, you need a car with a MAXIMUM gross weight of 2009kg, that's about 1500kg depending on payload - which would mean towing at almost 100% which isn't good for beginners.
You need the +E on the drivers licence, either if he/she passed the car test before 1998 or by taking the +E towing test - in the absence of that, no-one likes being the bearer of bad news but your caravan is too heavy for beginners.

 

[MichaelE]

The Mondeo would be an excellent choice a very highly rated car and a huge load space.The Titanium X has a huge spec and you couldnt ask for more.Economy is very good solo but expect around the 28-30 mpg towing.
The cars kerbweight is around the 1600kgs mark so weight wise with your van fully loaded you are around the 90% mark.

Im not sure why the question on the car being underpowered as it is a 140 bhp engine with around 230 torque, this is an exremely good engine.

 

[xtrailman]

I tow at 91% but i have been towing for a long time now.
My best towing experience was my first caravan, were the car was a lot heavier, probably 80% ratio.
The CC and NCC recommend towing at 85% or below if a beginner, so really it depends on yourself whether or not you ignore the advise.

 

[emmerson]

I'm afraid I must agree with Roger: the caravan is too big for a first - timer, but I didin't like to discourage the OP! I did hint in my previous post that a Mondeo is not the right car.

 

[RogerL]

.................... I didn't like to .........................

I've no such qualms!

For anyone with +E on their driving licence, the solution is simple, but not necessarily cheap, ie a heavier car - but - for anyone without the +E the maximum recommended 85% weight of caravan goes up to about 1360kg MTPLM as the car's kerbweight goes up to about 1600kg but then starts reducing again to keep the whole outfit's gross weight under 3500kg.
If you ignore the 85% recommendation and use the 100% legal limit applied to B-only drivers, then about 1500kg + 1500kg is the optimum, based on a typical 500kg car payload - not loading the car or caravan doesn't help this legal restriction as it's based on MAMs not actual weights.

 

[Beachball]

Hi Frantastic welcome to the practical caravan forum cannot say much about a Ford Mondeo diesel estate never own one but some members on here will give you the answer ,Look forward to the posts in the future

 

[MichaelE]

Question?
If your car has a std kerbweight of say 1500 kgs , this i presume includes some sort of payload and liquids?
If you then load the car with luggage and extra passengers are you not increasing the kerbweight of the car?
Would this then have an effect on weight ratios? ie the car is now heavier?

 

[MichaelE]

I'm afraid I must agree with Roger: the caravan is too big for a first - timer, but I didin't like to discourage the OP! I did hint in my previous post that a Mondeo is not the right car.

I think you mean the caravan is too big/heavy for the car? not just the caravan is too big/heavy for a beginner?

 

[MichaelE]

Hi Fantastic, and welcome. I can't speak for the Mondeo, as I've never owned one, but they do appear to be well-liked on this forum.
However,(and this is a purely personal opinion) I would say that it would be rather under-powered for such a large van. As the old saying goes "there ain't no substitute for cubic centimetres".

Thats not always the case, in todays world where they are trying to keep emissions down the engines are smaller capacity with bigger turbos.VW's 1.4 engines kick out 160 bhp

 

[JonnyG]

Yea , i think all the technical stuff is somewhat confusing a very simple question. can a 08 tdci mondeo pull the caravan in question.
the answer is yes.it has more than enough power whichever version you mean bhp or lowdown torque,its kerbweight once the occupents
have sat down [assuming on 2 person] laugague ect ect will have it under the 85%,even if the van was actually filled to its legal max.

 

[RogerL]

Question?
If your car has a std kerbweight of say 1500 kgs , this i presume includes some sort of payload and liquids?
If you then load the car with luggage and extra passengers are you not increasing the kerbweight of the car?
Would this then have an effect on weight ratios? ie the car is now heavier?

No - the towing ratio is always worked out using the kerbweight of the car and the MTPLM of the caravan regardless of how each is loaded - the towing ratio therefore remains a constant for a particular outfit.
The 85% and 100% towing ratios often quoted do recognise that the actual ratio would be lower.
BUT - there's always a "but" - towing stability will generally be improved by transferring payload from the caravan to the car and the car's loading limits must never be exceeded, nor indeed must the caravans'!

 

[RogerL]

Yea , i think all the technical stuff is somewhat confusing a very simple question. can a 08 tdci mondeo pull the caravan in question.

No, it's not that simple - the OP is a beginner to caravanning and may not have a B+E licence so other factors are involved as well.

 

[MichaelE]

So in theory if you were towing at 90% you could move payload from the caravan to the car to get the ratio to 85%?

 

[RogerL]

So in theory if you were towing at 90% you could move payload from the caravan to the car to get the ratio to 85%?

No - the Towing Ratio will still be 90%.

 

[emmerson]

I'm afraid I must agree with Roger: the caravan is too big for a first - timer, but I didin't like to discourage the OP! I did hint in my previous post that a Mondeo is not the right car.

I think you mean the caravan is too big/heavy for the car? not just the caravan is too big/heavy for a beginner?

No, i mean that the caravan is too big for a first timer

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Fran,

There is good advice that tells us to keep car heavier than the caravan. but the oft quoted 1:0.85 is just a guideline, and few percent either way is unlikely to be a major problem.

Whilst your caravan is quite large, provided the driver takes care it is a viable match at about 90% but it will require care but then all towing requires care.

So the Mondeo has earned a good reputation and has all the power you really need, but there could be a fly in the ointment, and that depends on when the driver passed their driving test as Roger has already pointed out.

Based on the information that has been provided, you are considering the Mondeo 2.0l tdci titanium x year 08. The data base I use shows it as having a kerb weight of 1557Kg. Now I dont have the the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) for this model,but the current model that has a similar kerb weight has a GVW of 2290Kg.

As Roger has already pointed out that if you only have cat B (not B+E) then you are limited to a combined MAM (Cars GVW + Caravans MTPLM)not exceeding 3500Kg. Even allowing for a small variation for nose weight, your combined outfit is close to 3700Kg. A Cat B only driver will be illegal if they drive this outfit.

You cannot get round this limitation by only part loading the vehicles, because the licence looks at the maximum limits not measured values.

The above limitation does not apply ifyou have Cat Be or B+E which rasies the MAM limit.

 

[MichaelE]

Surely you cannot say if the van is too big until you know the circumstances?
They may have purchased this sized van as they have older children and want the space, you are not going to purchase a small van which isnt fit for purpose just because you are a beginner?
That would surely be a waste of money?

 

[RogerL]

Surely you cannot say if the van is too big until you know the circumstances?
They may have purchased this sized van as they have older children and want the space, you are not going to purchase a small van which isnt fit for purpose just because you are a beginner?
That would surely be a waste of money?

We don't need to know the circumstances because the advice has been qualified - if the OP has a B only licence then it's too heavy.

 

[MichaelE]

Again you dont know the circumstances, no where in the post have they said they have a B only licence.
Your advice is correct if that was the case, but you dont know if it is.So you are presuming?