I know you old pros are probably fed up of explaining, but could some one tell a wee novice like me, how do I measure the nose weight of my fully loaded van? (please keep it in simple terms!) I'm towing with a C250 Mercedes estate. Thanks, Emmy.
How to measure noseweight
- Thread starter karenmshorter
- Start date
If you can buy a noseweight gauge from a caravan accessory shop, so much the better. If not you will need something like a set of bathroom scales and a short length of wood. The length of the piece of wood depends on your tow ball height, basically you need to weight the hitch at the same height as it will be, when hooked up to your car. So, you will have your tow hitch resting on a piece of wood, resting on your bathroom scales.
The process of actually measuring the nose weight is simple too. Once you have loaded the van make sure the handbrake is on (or chock the road wheels) and wind up the rear steadies, then wind down the jockey wheel (lifting the front of the van). Wind up the front steadies, so that the caravan is resting on it's axle and jockey wheel. Place your bathroom scales and block of wood/noseweight gauge under the tow hitch, then slowly wind up the jockey wheel so that the front of the caravan lowers itself onto the scales.
It may take a little to a fro'ing with the front steadies before you can get all the weight on the hitch, down onto the gauge, but at the end of it all the jockey wheel should be slightly clear of the ground, with the scales taking all the weight from the hitch. Take a look at what it say on the scales and that's your reading.
Remember, if you are not happy with the weight, lower the corner steadies if you need to get back into the caravan.
The process of actually measuring the nose weight is simple too. Once you have loaded the van make sure the handbrake is on (or chock the road wheels) and wind up the rear steadies, then wind down the jockey wheel (lifting the front of the van). Wind up the front steadies, so that the caravan is resting on it's axle and jockey wheel. Place your bathroom scales and block of wood/noseweight gauge under the tow hitch, then slowly wind up the jockey wheel so that the front of the caravan lowers itself onto the scales.
It may take a little to a fro'ing with the front steadies before you can get all the weight on the hitch, down onto the gauge, but at the end of it all the jockey wheel should be slightly clear of the ground, with the scales taking all the weight from the hitch. Take a look at what it say on the scales and that's your reading.
Remember, if you are not happy with the weight, lower the corner steadies if you need to get back into the caravan.
Lol, thanks for your explanation, but to throw a spanner in the works. A little while ago it was sugested that if you were on a gradiant, level the caravan up (longer or shorter piece of wood)
You say that the hitch needs to be the same hight as if towing
how should I go about doing it on a gradiant or shouldnt I
Kevin H
You say that the hitch needs to be the same hight as if towing
how should I go about doing it on a gradiant or shouldnt I
Kevin H
Always measure on level ground, even if the caravan is not standing level when the coupling is at the same height as if hitched up to the car.
Errr, yes, what Lutz says......Thanks Kevin, I only venture into the technical forum on the odd occasion, and you have to go and confound me!
That's it, back to Chit-chat for me.......
That's it, back to Chit-chat for me.......
Hello Brian,
Rarely do I throw up the challenge of blinding you with science so you asked, here's the answer!
All matter has 'mass' it is a property of matter and it describes how much you have. Only when it is acted upon by gravity, does the mass develop a weight, which is a force of attraction between two masses.
Fortunately we had a clever lad called Isaac Newton who realised how gravity worked, and he was able to calculate the effect. He observed that gravity was dependant on the mass of the objects and their distance apart. He devised a blisteringly simple equation to calculate the attractive force between two objects
Force = (Mass1 x Mass2)/ (distance between then) squared.
Now, the force acts between the centres of gravity of both objects so applying this to the weight of a caravan, the distance between the CofG of the caravan to the centre of the earth will be less at sea level, than at any altitude above it, so technically the caravan will weigh less the further up the mountain it is.
Also as the moon passes overhead, its gravitational pull will tend to lift the caravan so again it will be lighter than when the moon is on the other side of the earth but it will also pull the caravan down harder to the ground when it is on the opposite side of the earth. Similarly the sun will affect the weight of the caravan.
In addition, because the earth rotates around its axis (pole to pole) the speed of the surface of the earth is at a maximum around the equator. This rotational motion actually causes a centrifugal force on the caravan that is trying to lift it off the surface of the earth. So a caravan will weigh less on the equator than at either of the poles.
So to get your loading weight down, measure it at the top of a mountain on the equator at midday when there is a lunar eclipse on mid-summers day. - Oh and don't forget to remove the dust from under the bed lockers that will have more effect than the weight savings made by this positional strategy.
Rarely do I throw up the challenge of blinding you with science so you asked, here's the answer!
All matter has 'mass' it is a property of matter and it describes how much you have. Only when it is acted upon by gravity, does the mass develop a weight, which is a force of attraction between two masses.
Fortunately we had a clever lad called Isaac Newton who realised how gravity worked, and he was able to calculate the effect. He observed that gravity was dependant on the mass of the objects and their distance apart. He devised a blisteringly simple equation to calculate the attractive force between two objects
Force = (Mass1 x Mass2)/ (distance between then) squared.
Now, the force acts between the centres of gravity of both objects so applying this to the weight of a caravan, the distance between the CofG of the caravan to the centre of the earth will be less at sea level, than at any altitude above it, so technically the caravan will weigh less the further up the mountain it is.
Also as the moon passes overhead, its gravitational pull will tend to lift the caravan so again it will be lighter than when the moon is on the other side of the earth but it will also pull the caravan down harder to the ground when it is on the opposite side of the earth. Similarly the sun will affect the weight of the caravan.
In addition, because the earth rotates around its axis (pole to pole) the speed of the surface of the earth is at a maximum around the equator. This rotational motion actually causes a centrifugal force on the caravan that is trying to lift it off the surface of the earth. So a caravan will weigh less on the equator than at either of the poles.
So to get your loading weight down, measure it at the top of a mountain on the equator at midday when there is a lunar eclipse on mid-summers day. - Oh and don't forget to remove the dust from under the bed lockers that will have more effect than the weight savings made by this positional strategy.
Thanks John, that's exactly how I would have put it.
Right now, any more questions, we're on a roll here.....
Right now, any more questions, we're on a roll here.....
Jokin' aside, in simple terms you won't be far out if you place your jock on to a set of kitchen scales on level ground. Cheap (
Hello Colinn,
Using the jockey wheel as your load transfer system could make quite a difference. It all down t the distance between the main axel and the point of support used to the load to the scales.
A jockey wheel is set back from the actual hitch, in some cases about 0.5M. and it also depend on which way the jockey wheel is facing, When you consider that the distance from the hitch to the main axle is only likely to be about 3.5M. the difference of 0.5 is significant by about 1/7th. Or about 14%. (this figure depend on the geometry of the caravan and will vary for different models)
Fortunately you will be erring on the side of safety, as a 75kg at the jockey wheel will only be about 64.5Kg at the hitch, however that 10.5kg difference could be the difference between a stable and
Using the jockey wheel as your load transfer system could make quite a difference. It all down t the distance between the main axel and the point of support used to the load to the scales.
A jockey wheel is set back from the actual hitch, in some cases about 0.5M. and it also depend on which way the jockey wheel is facing, When you consider that the distance from the hitch to the main axle is only likely to be about 3.5M. the difference of 0.5 is significant by about 1/7th. Or about 14%. (this figure depend on the geometry of the caravan and will vary for different models)
Fortunately you will be erring on the side of safety, as a 75kg at the jockey wheel will only be about 64.5Kg at the hitch, however that 10.5kg difference could be the difference between a stable and
Hello Colinn,
Using the jockey wheel as your load transfer system could make quite a difference. It all down t the distance between the main axel and the point of support used to the load to the scales.
A jockey wheel is set back from the actual hitch, in some cases about 0.5M. and it also depend on which way the jockey wheel is facing, When you consider that the distance from the hitch to the main axle is only likely to be about 3.5M. the difference of 0.5 is significant by about 1/7th. Or about 14%. (this figure depend on the geometry of the caravan and will vary for different models)
Fortunately you will be erring on the side of safety, as a 75kg at the jockey wheel will only be about 64.5Kg at the hitch, however that 10.5kg difference could be the difference between a stable and
Using the jockey wheel as your load transfer system could make quite a difference. It all down t the distance between the main axel and the point of support used to the load to the scales.
A jockey wheel is set back from the actual hitch, in some cases about 0.5M. and it also depend on which way the jockey wheel is facing, When you consider that the distance from the hitch to the main axle is only likely to be about 3.5M. the difference of 0.5 is significant by about 1/7th. Or about 14%. (this figure depend on the geometry of the caravan and will vary for different models)
Fortunately you will be erring on the side of safety, as a 75kg at the jockey wheel will only be about 64.5Kg at the hitch, however that 10.5kg difference could be the difference between a stable and
John, I am more than happy to accept that there is a small difference between the jock measurement and the actual hitch measurement. However, is it correct that the hitch figure will be lower than that at the jock - I would have thought it would have been heavier as it's further from the axle - but then I'm no expert...
John L,brilliant reply, I take my hat off to you. I must admit I did question your facts but as Lol has confirmed them I must take them as true ;O)
Interesting about weight difference at hitch and jockey wheel. What does this say about the new built in gauges that are becoming popular? Maybe PC mag could do a test to see if they are giving false readings.
Brian (",)
Interesting about weight difference at hitch and jockey wheel. What does this say about the new built in gauges that are becoming popular? Maybe PC mag could do a test to see if they are giving false readings.
Brian (",)
Brian,
I asked Alko about the weight difference from jock to hitch and they said when you buy an Alko hitch with built in gauge you get instructions with a formula from them on how to calculate the difference from jock to hitch and thus get the correct weight reading. At that point I glazed over and went back to sleep as the idea was to make things easier
By all accounts this only has to be done once
I asked Alko about the weight difference from jock to hitch and they said when you buy an Alko hitch with built in gauge you get instructions with a formula from them on how to calculate the difference from jock to hitch and thus get the correct weight reading. At that point I glazed over and went back to sleep as the idea was to make things easier
By all accounts this only has to be done once
Hello Colinn,
Its basic physics of levers and turning moments.
It is easier to lift the front of the caravan by using the handle on the hitch, than if you try to lift it using a grab-handle on the front of the coachwork. This is exactly the same principal that I described, but a more extreme example, and one that you can try - but watch your back!
The hitch is actually a lever that pivots about the main axle of the caravan. The further away (or longer it is) the less force (or lower nose load) is exerted. Conversely, the body grab handle is closer to the axle (or a shorter lever) and the force will be greater.
In fact if you double the distance or the length of a lever you only need half the force to move it, so there is a direct proportional relation ship.
Consider a wheelbarrow. It uses long handles to make it easier to lift the load, or a pair of cutters is easier to use with long handles than short ones.
Hope this helps
Its basic physics of levers and turning moments.
It is easier to lift the front of the caravan by using the handle on the hitch, than if you try to lift it using a grab-handle on the front of the coachwork. This is exactly the same principal that I described, but a more extreme example, and one that you can try - but watch your back!
The hitch is actually a lever that pivots about the main axle of the caravan. The further away (or longer it is) the less force (or lower nose load) is exerted. Conversely, the body grab handle is closer to the axle (or a shorter lever) and the force will be greater.
In fact if you double the distance or the length of a lever you only need half the force to move it, so there is a direct proportional relation ship.
Consider a wheelbarrow. It uses long handles to make it easier to lift the load, or a pair of cutters is easier to use with long handles than short ones.
Hope this helps
Hello Martin,
I am not familiar with the Al-ko device, but I will make the assumption that it senses the load at the stem of the jockey wheel.
Because the distance between the axle and both the jockey wheel stem and the hitch will remain the same, then it should be quite easy to establish the correction factor you need to apply.
Measure the distance from the axle to both the hitch and the jockey stem. Divide the jockey wheel distance by the hitch distance and you will get an answer that will be lees than 1.0 The result is your correction factor.
If you multiply what ever force reading you get on the stem sensor by the correction factor you will calculate reasonably accurately the force that will be exerted at the tow hitch.
This is all dependant on the sensor reading accurately in the first place, and that the jockey wheel is adjusted to set the caravan hitch at the same height as when it is connected to the car.
I am not familiar with the Al-ko device, but I will make the assumption that it senses the load at the stem of the jockey wheel.
Because the distance between the axle and both the jockey wheel stem and the hitch will remain the same, then it should be quite easy to establish the correction factor you need to apply.
Measure the distance from the axle to both the hitch and the jockey stem. Divide the jockey wheel distance by the hitch distance and you will get an answer that will be lees than 1.0 The result is your correction factor.
If you multiply what ever force reading you get on the stem sensor by the correction factor you will calculate reasonably accurately the force that will be exerted at the tow hitch.
This is all dependant on the sensor reading accurately in the first place, and that the jockey wheel is adjusted to set the caravan hitch at the same height as when it is connected to the car.
Hi John L,
Thanks for the reply.
I looked at buying one a while ago but it is 4-5kg heavier than a normal hitch, here is some info for you http://217.199.167.226/pdfs/Jockeywhelnoseloadgauge.pdf
Thanks for the reply.
I looked at buying one a while ago but it is 4-5kg heavier than a normal hitch, here is some info for you http://217.199.167.226/pdfs/Jockeywhelnoseloadgauge.pdf
Would someone tell me what is the differance measuring the noseweight on level ground or on a slope ,i'm getting a headache just thinking about it.
In 12 years of caravanning ,and i go summer and winter i have never seen any body measure there nose weight or check there tyre pressure before leaving a site ,and yet its mentioned all the time on here,i roughly spend about 80 nights away a year
Robert, as one measures the noseweight with the coupling at the same height off the ground as when the caravan is hitched up to the car, the caravan will follow the same angle as the ground on which it is standing. If it's a downhill slope, for example, the caravan will tilt forward, bringing the centre of gravity further forward. This, in turn, has the effect of increasing the noseweight to a value that is higher than if the caravan were standing level. Of course, if the ground is facing uphill, then the effect would be the opposite.
Hello Lutz, thanks for that, my garage is on a slope so i'm going to see the differance by doing it both ways as my feeble brain still cannot see it.
Does your garage really slope that much? If it's only a couple of inches over the whole length, it's not going to make an appreciable difference.
Hello Lutz the part of the drive which i keep the caravan slopes 9inches in 22 feet, i have posted elsewhere on Foram the results of my noseweights which i done today, perhaps if you find it you would be kind enough to comment on them .Regards.
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