Hybrid car

[GaryB]

I would think that if towing there will be zero difference as the car will probably never switch to EV mode? In addition, many hybrids and PHEV have a much lower towing ratio than the same ICE engine. Not sure if this is the same for a diesel PHEV?

If running in full auto-EV mode the car will use both power sources to suit the best efficiency if the in-built sat-nav is used (the car knows where you're going and how you're getting there hence "does it's stuff").

Towing capacity for some PHEV's is a bit of a lottery, the Hyundai Tucson (and others) seem to have varying limits depending whether it's a plug-in or self-charging version and (I think) the latest Kia Sorento hybrid has a very low limit. Others (Audi and Volvo as an example) have towing limits the same as their standard ICE alternatives.

 

[Buckman]

If running in full auto-EV mode the car will use both power sources to suit the best efficiency if the in-built sat-nav is used (the car knows where you're going and how you're getting there hence "does it's stuff").

Towing capacity for some PHEV's is a bit of a lottery, the Hyundai Tucson (and others) seem to have varying limits depending whether it's a plug-in or self-charging version and (I think) the latest Kia Sorento hybrid has a very low limit. Others (Audi and Volvo as an example) have towing limits the same as their standard ICE alternatives.

The Lexus NX300H hybrid with the 2.5ltr engine can only tow up to 1500kg. In addition, the EV mode does not kick in if doing over 30mph and on a motorway and A roads you will be travelling at a higher speed. Not sure about other EVs. Our previous 2010 Mondeo with 2.0Ltr engine could tow up to 2000kg!

 

[AndrewAventura]

I would think that if towing there will be zero difference as the car will probably never switch to EV mode? In addition, many hybrids and PHEV have a much lower towing ratio than the same ICE engine. Not sure if this is the same for a diesel PHEV?

Petrol PHEV's do often seem to have a lower towing limit than non-PHEV's. But all the same, I think they are pretty masterful at towing.

Your question about diesel PHEV's intrigued me - I looked at the specs for the Mercedes GLC 300D, PHEV and regular versions. The PHEV has a towing limit of 2000kg and the regular diesel a towing limit of 2500kg. Even though the PHEV is more powerful and heavier. I'd guess that the manufacturers have worked quite hard on the power management and controls for PHEV's, and towing a big lump messes things up.

 

[RogerL]

Petrol PHEV's do often seem to have a lower towing limit than non-PHEV's. But all the same, I think they are pretty masterful at towing.

Your question about diesel PHEV's intrigued me - I looked at the specs for the Mercedes GLC 300D, PHEV and regular versions. The PHEV has a towing limit of 2000kg and the regular diesel a towing limit of 2500kg. Even though the PHEV is more powerful and heavier. I'd guess that the manufacturers have worked quite hard on the power management and controls for PHEV's, and towing a big lump messes things up.

Towing limits have always been based on a number of different factors - so higher power/torque doesn't necessarily mean a higher towing limit.

It's often the power management optimisation for economy/emissions that may restrict towing ability.

 

[otherclive]

The Lexus NX300H hybrid with the 2.5ltr engine can only tow up to 1500kg. In addition, the EV mode does not kick in if doing over 30mph and on a motorway and A roads you will be travelling at a higher speed. Not sure about other EVs. Our previous 2010 Mondeo with 2.0Ltr engine could tow up to 2000kg!

Mine which is 2WD hybrid can only tow 800 kg, but the 4wd version with the same engine tows 1650kg and the PHEV 1500kg. So a useful towing capacity is available depending on choice of model.

 

[Tobes]

How can you measure that actually true mpg on a hybrid car i.e. if the car stayed in petrol or diesel mode without switching to EV mode? Most hybrids kick into EV mode when the the load is low thus distorting the actual mpg figure.

Unless it's a plug in hybrid, it only has one measurement, MPG over any reasonable period - E.g a tanks worth of fuel.

 

[Beachball]

Mine which is 2WD hybrid can only tow 800 kg, but the 4wd version with the same engine tows 1650kg and the PHEV 1500kg. So a useful towing capacity is available depending on choice of model.

Actually mine is 2wd hybrid but can tow 1600kg but the 4wd same engine 2100kg

 

[Buckman]

Actually mine is 2wd hybrid but can tow 1600kg but the 4wd same engine 2100kg

Is that 4x4 or AWD as there is a difference?

Mine which is 2WD hybrid can only tow 800 kg, but the 4wd version with the same engine tows 1650kg and the PHEV 1500kg. So a useful towing capacity is available depending on choice of model.

Our is AWD which is not 4x4.

 

[RogerL]

4x4 is a general term covering all variations

An all-wheel drive system (AWD) can send a variable amount of torque to each axle, and the driver doesn't typically control this. A four-wheel drive system (4wd) sends a fixed amount of power to each axle, and it can be switched on or off by the driver. So, how do they go about doing their jobs? Generally, an all-wheel drive system uses a center differential to distribute the engine's torque between the two axles, while four-wheel drive relies on a transfer case, which functions like a locked differential.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a24663372/all-wheel-drive-four-wheel-drive-differences-explained/

In practice, with road cars the main difference is whether the AWD system is full-time or part-time.

Many modern cars have torque-vectoring, by all sorts of names, which use the brakes electronically to direct the power/torque to the wheel(s) with the most grip.

 

[Beachball]

Is that 4xr or AWD as there is a difference?


Our is AWD which is not 4x4.

As I said 2 WD Ford Kuga 2.5 Full Hybrid (180ps /132 KW )

 

[Buckman]

As I said 2 WD Ford Kuga 2.5 Full Hybrid (180ps /132 KW )

I am aware that your car is a 2WD, but I was referring to the rest of your sentence "but the 4wd same engine 2100kg"

 

[Oscarmax]

Actually mine is 2wd hybrid but can tow 1600kg but the 4wd same engine 2100kg

All the latest Ford Kuga FHEV and PHEV have been upgraded to 2100kg, when first introduced the PHEV was only 1200kg, then 1500kg and now 2100kg.

 

[otherclive]

All the latest Ford Kuga FHEV and PHEV have been upgraded to 2100kg, when first introduced the PHEV was only 1200kg, then 1500kg and now 2100kg.

That’s a very useful capability.

 

[Beachball]

I am aware that your car is a 2WD, but I was referring to the rest of your sentence "but the 4wd same engine 2100kg"

This Ford Kuga 2.5 Full hybrid Awd ( 184 Ps /135kw ) 2100kg

 

[ProfJohnL]

The ability of an electric motor to produce maximum torque at very low speeds should make them ideal for tow vehicles. It has always amazed me that car manufacturers seem to down rate the towing load of their electric cars. I'm pleased to see from the information in this thread that the Kuga is bucking this this trend.

In practice I suspect the manufacturers have been mor focused on achieving ridiculous potential performances, to attract high end customers, making EV's look "cool" rather than working on products with more realistic capabilities for the mass markets. And as caravan ownership is still very much a niche activity, towing comes somewhat lower down the list of design criteria for vehicles.

 

[RogerL]

The ability of an electric motor to produce maximum torque at very low speeds should make them ideal for tow vehicles. It has always amazed me that car manufacturers seem to down rate the towing load of their electric cars. I'm pleased to see from the information in this thread that the Kuga is bucking this this trend.

In practice I suspect the manufacturers have been mor focused on achieving ridiculous potential performances, to attract high end customers, making EV's look "cool" rather than working on products with more realistic capabilities for the mass markets. And as caravan ownership is still very much a niche activity, towing comes somewhat lower down the list of design criteria for vehicles.

Electric motors do generate very high torque at low rpm but I suspect it's electronically limited to minimise loss of traction - otherwise tyre life would be measured in 100s of miles not 1,000s.

 

[Tobes]

Electric motors do generate very high torque at low rpm but I suspect it's electronically limited to minimise loss of traction - otherwise tyre life would be measured in 100s of miles not 1,000s.

It absolutely is. That's what traction control does. But traction control on an EV is orders of magnitude more effective than that on a combustion car, simply because of the level of control that can be exerted over the electric motor compared to a piston based combustion engine. It's this fact that (IMHO) explains the comparatively good tyre wear that is got out of an EV compared to an ICE car.

 

[RogerL]

It absolutely is. That's what traction control does. But traction control on an EV is orders of magnitude more effective than that on a combustion car, simply because of the level of control that can be exerted over the electric motor compared to a piston based combustion engine. It's this fact that (IMHO) explains the comparatively good tyre wear that is got out of an EV compared to an ICE car.

Some tyre makers are making EV-specific versions of their tyres for original fitment - partly to cope with the heavier weight but also to cope with the higher torque - interestingly, tyre makers don't recommend these EV-versions for IC cars.

 

[Tobes]

Some tyre makers are making EV-specific versions of their tyres for original fitment - partly to cope with the heavier weight but also to cope with the higher torque - interestingly, tyre makers don't recommend these EV-versions for IC cars.

My car came with Polestar specific Contis. They have the same load rating and tread pattern as a Conti for any other brand, the difference being they have foam inserts for lower road noise. They are not recomending the EV versions for non-EVs as the foam offers no benefit to an ICE car (the reduced road noise is undetectable over the ICE engine at any reasonable speed), but can fail, resulting in terrible vibration, and a warranty claim for a new tyre from the manufacturer. Michelin have a know issues with their foam inserts detaching (for over 4 years!) and has been costing them _a lot_ in warranty claims.
My current set have about 30K miles on them and about 3mm of remaining tread. My lease company won't change them until they get to 2mm.
My PHEV V60 D6 (1985kg) weighed a little less than the Polestar (2227kg), was 290hp AWD (220 + 70) vs 408h AWD (204+204) but only did about 18,000 miles on a set of tyres.

 

[otherclive]

My car came with Polestar specific Contis. They have the same load rating and tread pattern as a Conti for any other brand, the difference being they have foam inserts for lower road noise. They are not recomending the EV versions for non-EVs as the foam offers no benefit to an ICE car (the reduced road noise is undetectable over the ICE engine at any reasonable speed), but can fail, resulting in terrible vibration, and a warranty claim for a new tyre from the manufacturer. Michelin have a know issues with their foam inserts detaching (for over 4 years!) and has been costing them _a lot_ in warranty claims.
My current set have about 30K miles on them and about 3mm of remaining tread. My lease company won't change them until they get to 2mm.
My PHEV V60 D6 (1985kg) weighed a little less than the Polestar (2227kg), was 290hp AWD (220 + 70) vs 408h AWD (204+204) but only did about 18,000 miles on a set of tyres.

Under 4 seconds to 62mph doesn’t help tyre life. There’s a BYD Seal 3.8S near to us with a 0-62mph of 3.8 seconds!!! Super car territory but it’s top speed is only 111 mph. It’s not alone in those performance figures. 🤭. Must admit though it’s a nice looking car.

 

[RogerL]

Under 4 seconds to 62mph doesn’t help tyre life. There’s a BYD Seal 3.8S near to us with a 0-62mph of 3.8 seconds!!! Super car territory but it’s top speed is only 111 mph. It’s not alone in those performance figures. 🤭. Must admit though it’s a nice looking car.

Apart from magazine road testers, does anyone ever use full throttle in practice on those cars? I get major earache from passengers if I use it on my Touareg and that's 7.3 secs to 62 mph

 

[Tobes]

Apart from magazine road testers, does anyone ever use full throttle in practice on those cars? I get major earache from passengers if I use it on my Touareg and that's 7.3 secs to 62 mph

My Polestar is a mere 4.7s to 62 (100kph), but the V60 was no slouch at under 6 seconds.
How often do I floor either car from standstill? - rarely, but the V60 could spin its front wheels without being at aggressive full throttle. I have _never_ managed to spin the wheels in the Polestar (other than when parking on gravel or wet grass). The V60, when launched was fun. The Polestar when launched is equal parts mind bending and exhilarating. I do use full throttle on the Polestar (or V60) when overtaking. The faster I am past the slower vehicle and back in my own lane, the better. I have had to learn to issue a "hold tight" warning before doing so in order to prepare the passengers for the gut wrench.

 

[otherclive]

Apart from magazine road testers, does anyone ever use full throttle in practice on those cars? I get major earache from passengers if I use it on my Touareg and that's 7.3 secs to 62 mph

I think you are right although I read a report covering an increase rate of EV accidents compared to ICE. One area was sideswipes on islands. The consensus was that the EV drivers acceleration caused them to hit a car on the island that was going across them from right to left while they were looking to their right.

 

[Buckman]

Our hybrid has something called Blue earth or similar name tyres. They are supposed to be environmentally friendly, but we find them to be quite noisy and we are not the only ones. Others with the same type of car have switched to Michelin Cross Climate and have said they are a lot quieter.

 

[GaryB]

I think my Audi is just under 6 seconds, but the electric motor drives the back wheels and the engine the front with lots of anti-wheel spin techno wizardry. I've used it a few times and it really does punch you into the seat.........