In Praise.

[ProfAlGoogle]

So often on these forums we read of people who are disgruntled with there caravan purchase (myself included) but it is quite rare for people to offer praise to manufacturers/retailers. At the beginning of the year we took delivery of a 2007 Bailey Senator Arizona, and those of you that have been following these forums you will know that we encountered quite a few problems with the water system, in respect of poor water quality and low pressure, and one or two other niggling problems, and at one point it felt like we were banging our heads against the wall. But full credit to Bailey caravans who had the caravan returned twice to there factory to rectify the problems. On the second occasion they actually collected and returned the caravan from my home address and completely fitted a new water system for the second time, and completed all the other remedial work to my full satisfaction, and as a gesture of goodwill for the inconvenience incurred, they supplied and fitted the AL-KO ATC trailer control system completely free of charge, in my opinion Bailey's customer care is second to none with there ability to go that bit further to ensure there customers are completely satisfied with there purchase. "well done Bailey"

Allan & Gill.

 

[Rod_5041370]

But Bailey could have saved themselves a lot of trouble and expense if they made the caravan properly in the first place.

Not to mention your frustration and loss of the use of your caravan.

OK so they bought you off for

 

[nick_374224697]

That's quite a synical response Rod. I think the fact that Bailey recognised there was a problem and rectified it was good, but to offer the ATC as goodwill was not a buy off at all and suggesting so I think is relatively insulting to Allan and Gill by way of implying that they have been push overs.

Well done Allan and Gill for taking the time to praise Bailey when it's all too easy to not mention it.You should be well pleased with your result and not let Rod's views spoil your day.

 

[Rod_5041370]

Well, I'm afraid that I really don't get it.

Bailey provided a caravan which was "not fit for purpose", then they had two attempts to fix it.

Twice the owner was deprived of his caravan and by his own admission felt that he was "banging his head on a brick wall".

But everything is OK because they fitted an accessory free of charge, so now they get their "praises sung" on a forum.

When will purchasers stop accepting faulty goods?, because until they do quality will never improve.

Not cynical, just realistic.

 

[gooner44]

Surely the point here is that Allan & Gill have now achieved 'full satisfaction' due to Baileys customer care? I think to adopt the attitude of 'not fit for purpose' is unfair in the circumstances Rod.

Quote : 'When will purchasers stop accepting faulty goods?'

Allan & Gill didn't accept faulty goods, they pursued their supplying dealer & subsequently Bailey to the satisfactory conclusion.

The fact that Bailey made a goodwill gesture is to their credit & to suggest that Allan & Gill were 'bought off' with a

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

That's the whole point " I did not accept faulty goods" you need to go back and read the many posts that were previously posted Rod before you jump in with both feet without the necessary knowledge. Bought off? I do not think so, I still have remaining term of the manufacturers warranty to run, and if any other problems unfold, then the caravan will be straight back to the dealers to be rectified, goodwill gesture or otherwise. "When will purchasers stop accepting faulty goods?, because until they do quality will never improve" . that is exactly what I have not done, as I have said Rod, you need to read all of the previous threads to get all of the facts before you really comment on the matter. Believe me it has not been all plain sailing, but I have ended up with a result in my favour. It is not about faulty goods, after all we are all human and mistakes do and will happen, what counts is how well manufacturers deal with and rectify these faults, and in my opinion, and in my particular case Bailey's customer care has been very good, so credit where it is due.

 

[bigbilly]

It seems that in these days of shoddy imported fittings and poor workmanship there is an ever increasing amount of goods, including caravans, needing warranty work to them. I have long stopped worrying about this as long as the product in question provides good customer service and polite and effective correction service. Unfortunately I have yet to find this with a caravan manufacturer.

My last caravan, a Swift, was sold after 3 years with warranty work still outstanding. My current van, a 16 month old Bessacarr Cameo (should have learnt my lesson from my previous Swift !) , has been in 3 times now and is back in again tomorrow to have 2 front windows replaced. It's taken that long to resolve. The radio/DVD unit has never worked properly since delivery and that was only returned to Blaupunkt a month ago. Still waiting.

What I would advise is going to the suppliers directly by by-passing dealers and manufacturers. In the last few months I have had exceptional service from Thetford, Truma, Solar Solutions and Al-Ko.

Bill

 

[gooner44]

That's the whole point " I did not accept faulty goods" you need to go back and read the many posts that were previously posted Rod before you jump in with both feet without the necessary knowledge. Bought off? I do not think so, I still have remaining term of the manufacturers warranty to run, and if any other problems unfold, then the caravan will be straight back to the dealers to be rectified, goodwill gesture or otherwise. "When will purchasers stop accepting faulty goods?, because until they do quality will never improve" . that is exactly what I have not done, as I have said Rod, you need to read all of the previous threads to get all of the facts before you really comment on the matter. Believe me it has not been all plain sailing, but I have ended up with a result in my favour. It is not about faulty goods, after all we are all human and mistakes do and will happen, what counts is how well manufacturers deal with and rectify these faults, and in my opinion, and in my particular case Bailey's customer care has been very good, so credit where it is due.

Hear Hear. Well put Allan & I totally agree with your sentiments. People are very eager to critisise but rarely give praise when it's warranted. Well done & happy camping. Gooner.

 

[Rod_5041370]

All I would ask Allan & Gill is: After the problems that you have had with this caravan, would you still have posted on this forum in praise of Baily had they not given you the ATC???

 

[Rodone]

Don't get me mixed up with the other Rod - we are both Victor Meldrew's, but he's worse than me!!

 

[nick_374224697]

I reckon Rod's floundering now.... ;-)

 

[cokey1970]

Has he made a Rod for his own back though?

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Please run a search Rod and read all the threads, you will then see the whole picture, I do not give two hoots about the freebee, but I do appreciate the customer care that Bailey have shown to me, especially when you consider they do not have a legally binding contract with me, my contract lies with the supplying dealer, Bailey intervened and took the problems on board themselves, kept me informed at every level, washed and valeted the van before it's return. There was no loss of use, as they organised it's return to there factory to fit in with my requirements, I really do not know where you are coming from Rod, or what you would expect in similar circumstances.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Allan & Gill,

I am glad that you have taken the trouble to highlight some good service. As you point out all too often only the poor events make the news.

Whilst I applaud you for posting, I can also understand Rods point of view.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Thanks for that John, nothing in life is perfect, mistakes faulty goods, poor workmanship (off day by employee) do and will continue to happen whether you purchase a Rolls Royce or a Mini, What in my book is the most important thing is the way the problem or problems are rectified, all to often on these forums we hear of poor service and people coming on to these forums to vent there spleen myself included. In the case of Bailey they have not sat back and rested on there morals, they have gone that extra mile to ensure that I am totally satisfied with there product, speaks volumes for a company with a full order book.

 

[Sedo]

Hi Allan and Gill

I was really pleased to read of your experience with Bailey.

We've just swopped our old Bailey Pageant Majestic in for a Pageant Burgundy and had one run out up to yet. We're really pleased with all aspects of the van and if it gives as much enjoyment as the Majestic did then that's all we ask. So its nice to read that should we have problems Bailey would seem to be a caravan company you can deal fairly with.

Best regards

Tom

 

[DavidM.L.]

Hi Allan & Gill,

Your experience with Bailey customer service echoes my own. As Rod says it would be great if everything was perfect first time, however I am sure ALL companies have problems, some more than others. It is good to know that if things do go wrong that you will be looked after.

We traded up from a Ranger to a Pageant even though we had had extensive warranty work done on the Ranger when it was 12 months old which resulted in it being returned to the factory. It was only because of the way Bailey looked after things that we stuck with them when we traded up. At least we knew that if there were problems with the new van we could expect the same high levels of customer service again.

All manufacturers have problems, but how highly do others score when it comes to putting any problems right?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi all

I wholly agree it is important for companies to recognise when their products have not performed faultlessly. But the fact that faults do occur (and continue to reoccur) means the after sales departments of the caravan companies tend to be larger and busier than should be necessary. Sadly this is a fairly typical state of affairs in the industry.

It is the companies that do try to help, and 'go the extra mile' that stand out. Despite the inconvenience customers are put through to rectify the fault, it is the after sales service that seems to be turning a bad experience into a positive. It seems from the correspondence here that Bailey scores well on this point. Perhaps others are not so good.

The caravan industry relies heavily on brand loyalties for repeat business, so keeping the customer happy should be one of their prime activities, and whilst turning a fault into a positive is obviously a better outcome than losing the customer, it is generally much better not to upset the customer in the first place.

From a business perspective, the level of activity in after sales to rectify faults should be a key indicator, and it is a rich source of information pointing to what is wrong with the product(s).

All business have to make a profit to survive. It should be the aim of every management to prevent unnecessary costs that reduce profitability. All rectification has to be funded from its profits, so it is a prime opportunity for improvement. So reducing product faults that give rise to after sales costs is a very effective measure.

With the level of detailed information available to the caravan manufactures, it continues to amaze me that the same major faults seem to reoccur so frequently. Leaky caravans are not uncommon yet despite this information, no significant or effective development has occurred to reduce this problem in the last 20 years.

Doors and windows are still ineffective security measures, Pipes continue flavour water, taps leak and can't be re-washered, Drains still don't drain properly. TV aerials are still ineffective, heating systems are still not fitted to best effect - and many more examples exist.

If these issues were addressed in the first place with good design, and production techniques to match, then the level of customer satisfaction would rise, after sales activity would reduce, and costs would come down to benefit both customers and the business.

Good after sales support is still desirable, and could be maintained, but with reduced workload, the numbers of personnel in these areas could shrink, allowing more companies to go 'the extra mile'

 

[Sedo]

Hi all

I agree with John L's statement on quality issues, they used to try and have a policy at a well known tyre company called 'get it right first time'. In other words sort it at the source not afterwards like sinclair computers used to.

Perhaps Toyota, Honda or even Skoda will start making caravans, they seem to have sorted their cars pretty well.

regards Tomo

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Tom,

Yes, A number of companies do work towards 'right first time', or 'zero defect'policies, and the car industry has been doing this for several years with varying degrees of success. There are other good examples in other industries, and some of the common factors that set them apart from the less successful businesses is their focus on the customers needs, and their approach to the desire to continually improve.

In my later years I have acted as a consultant to a number of well known businesses in their initial and continuing application for accreditation against the BS EN ISO 9000 series standards. Technically this is not a conventional standard but a business model which is used to benchmark how a whole business performs not just its products.

The improvement process has to be adopted company wide, and all employees including directors have to pull in the same direction. It is essential the Chairman, and the Managing Director are fully committed to the process. Without the support of top management, the best efforts of managers and shop floor workers can be undermined. Equally if the production operatives are not motivated to follow best practice, then the improvement objectives will be lost.

 

[bigbilly]

Good post John L.

It seems that Bailey seem on the ball to after sales warranty work. Bailey is one of the few caravans I have not owned from new. Unfortunately I have found major problems getting warranty work done.

I owned a Swift and was silly enough to replace with a Bessacarr. I still have outstanding issues 16 months after purchase.

What doesn't help is the number of us caravanners who don't report faults. I have now rectified 9 faults on 2 friends Bessacarrs after they asked for assistance. Swift, if they have a QA dept., will never know about these faults and I know that there are many other caravanners who get frustrated getting faults fixed.

I'm afraid that customer service will not improve while caravans and motorhomes sell as fast as they are doing.

Bill

 

[Royston]

Hi Alan and Jill,

Glad you got your problem solved, My last two vans have both been Baileys, glad to say that i have never had any problems with either van.A lot of people on this forum are quick to air there views on the shoddy workmanship , having read that they produced over 8.500 caravans only per year proves that the general public like them.

Royston

 

[Sedo]

Hi

I worked for many years for a well known tyre company who were famous for the quality of their product (and still are for that matter). Their inspection procedures were intensive and ensured the constant qualty of the product. When the tyre left the factory the customer knew they were buying a quality product. The problem comes when the market place gets more competative and possibly customers are more interested with price, after all a tyres a tyre isn't it? All that inspecting can be expensive.

The problem with caravans is they're more hands on to build I would imagine. I would not imagine for example that they are built as tyres or even cars are with programmable machines and robots. So that each procedure is replicated from one unit to the next. Bar a fault in the manufacturing machinery each unit made is as near as dammit identical, and meets a standard that has been set.

With anything made by hand they're never going to be indentical. So you rely on the person or persons responsible for the process to maintain a standard and/or an inspection process which will do the same. Let's be honest you can go to inspect most new caravans and if you're feeling very picky find faults in fits and finish. It depends what the caravan buying public are willing to accept. Then again some faults will not be obvious until the caravan is used on site, so you're reliant on aftersales servicing.

The thing that surprised me most when we bought the first new caravan we've ever bought was that the dealer kept the caravan for a week to 'check it out' It surprised me because I would have thought the caravan would have been checked before it left the factory. Perhaps a visual check just to make sure nothing untoward had happened in transit.

Don't get me wrong its nice to know the dealer wants you to sure of the product but all the same.........

Having said all this we've used the caravan and are really pleased. For the price its great, and this is the big issue the price and what you get.

regards Tomo

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello yet again Tom.

The classic PDI is an essential part of the dealers responsibility to both the customer and to the manufacturer.

For over 20 years I worked in various capacities for a major gas appliance manufacture. Some of our output was destined for touring and mobile homes, and consequently I saw at first hand most of the caravan manufactures productions lines and facilities.

Due to the methods that were (and I assume still are) used to build a caravan, it is not uncommon for parts to be missed or damaged during the manufacturing process, and the Dealers PDI is effectively an extension of the manufactures production and final inspection processes.

Traditionally the bulk of the caravan manufactures production workforce is employed seasonally on a piecework basis. This does not lend its self well to the maintaining build quality, as any delay in through put damages the production operative earning ability. The 'finished' product has to be inspected to try and pick up on any production errors.

The majority of the manufacturers have tried to adopt a Just In Time methodology to the supply of materials to the production lines, but unlike the car manufactures, the quantity of parts is relatively low, and so there is slightly less leverage on suppliers to conform. A missed delivery would stop a car production line, but in the caravan industry it is more likely the build will continue with the part omitted, on the basis that it will be picked up at inspection and rectified.

Inevitably some omissions will be missed, and the caravans will be delivered to the dealers where it is expected the omission will be found and rectified at PDI.

For those omissions that are picked up, the caravan will be reworked, and on occasions incomplete caravans will be stockpiled and fixed enmass. Sometimes the caravan manufacture will call in teams from the suppliers to rework the vans.

Now this might sound like the suppliers are at fault, well on occasions that may be true, but the manufacture sometimes fails to schedule the required JIT drops, or advised the supplier to late about a change to a schedule or specification.

The other factor that may not be apparent is workforce-induced faults. As an OEM supplier we went to quite extraordinary lengths to ensure the right parts got to the manufacture at the right time we usually made daily drops. Our products were packaged specifically to meet the manufactures needs for line side storage, with all the relevant parts. Despite this we would receive back from the manufacturer quantities of products that were described as faulty. All these were analysed. In practice some had never been fitted, others had parts removed, others had been physically damaged.

If such damage such apparent on returned product we were always concerned about the condition of the product that actually made it into the final build. This was partly proven by the numbers of dealers who were contacting us directly for spares and advice about installations in new caravans.

As a consequence the PDI is an essential check on the caravan, but as it is in reality the manufactures work that is being checked, and the dealer is only covering his own back against any claim brought under the sale of goods acts if a caravan is faulty at time of sale - I wonder why the customer is charged for it?

 

[Sedo]

Yet again Hi John

Thanks for the reply. I got the impression caravan building may be like this.

The process of making tyres is based on piecewortk where targets have to be met. Obviously where this system is in practice the operatives may be tempted to turn blind eyes to some problems. That said SPA (Statistical Process Analsys) was employed, i.e. 1 in 20 components/units would be checked, any problems and they'd go back until they found the source and correct it. 'JIT' and 'lean prod we' were also used so I've seen the processes at first hand. I've also seen first hand products go right through the production process in the pottery industry where a blind man with a white stick on Nelson's column could see they were wrong. In fact there are outlets in Stoke-on-Trent where you can buy 'seconds',there used to be many more but the Potteries are much reduced (I wonder why)

What still surprises me though is that the PDI system is still employed and that manufacturers are willing to send products out that may have to repaired due to their manufacturing short falls and like you say in end the customer pays.

Regards Tomo

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