Incorrect Gas locker plate

[Buckman]

I do understand and have had to come to the realisation that as we like to take plenty of stuff, it’s clearly not going to go in the van. And if I put more in the car, I will be close to the MAM of the tow vehicle.

Therefore my solution as stated previously is to take the van out of the equation to a degree by looking at a tow car that can take what we need comfortably within the MAM and axle limits of the car (including any transferred nose weight) and then not have to worry that the van is too heavy on either axle. That vehicle is likely to be a pick up and as we like Mitsubishi, possibly an L200.

It seems that you have been looking for an excuse to buy a new car. LOL! 🤣

 

[Ste6t9]

It seems that you have been looking for an excuse to buy a new car. LOL! 🤣

It would appear that way. If you look through anything I have ever posted on here. The car has probably been the main issue. Problems with incorrect kerbweight etc

 

[Lutz]

For reference: the van is originally at 1724kg and I’ve had the upgrade sticker on the door to 1800kg

This is what is in the gas locker!!!

It's a bit unclear to me whether the photo is that of the label in the gas locker. If it is, it would have to be replaced to show the same upgraded MTPLM as displayed on the sticker by the door. This is because only the label or plate which shows the type approval number has any legal relevance. It is the statutory plate. If the label by the door doesn't show the type approval number it serves only as information to the customer and it doesn't have any official significance. In such a case and for the same reason, it could even be removed altogether without replacing it.
Plates on the axle are of relevance only to the caravan manufacturer, not to the end user. Those axle load limits which apply to the end user are shown on the statutory plate. They could be less than what is shown on the axle plates.

 

[Ste6t9]

It's a bit unclear to me whether the photo is that of the label in the gas locker. If it is, it would have to be replaced to show the same upgraded MTPLM as displayed on the sticker by the door. This is because only the label or plate which shows the type approval number has any legal relevance. It is the statutory plate. If the label by the door doesn't show the type approval number it serves only as information to the customer and it doesn't have any official significance. In such a case and for the same reason, it could even be removed altogether without replacing it.
Plates on the axle are of relevance only to the caravan manufacturer, not to the end user. Those axle load limits which apply to the end user are shown on the statutory plate. They could be less than what is shown on the axle plates.

This is what is in the gas locker as stated in the post. The sticker by the door has the upgraded MTPLM of 1800. It also has the type approval number.

My only query was: should the gas locker plate show the potential MTPLM (in this case 1800).

That was all really.

 

[JTQ]

Assuming the blanked out zone on the locker label has the "Type approval number" on it, thus it is the van's legal plate, then the van is limited to a 1724 kgs maximum mass.

If the dealer contracted to upgrade the van to 1800kgs, then up till now he has failed to do so. It becomes an issue covered by CRA 2015, if he fails to get that plate upgraded, or removed making another plate the legal plate.

What the axles and noseweight can take, are in themselves of no consequence re the maximum, unless their ratings are inadequate in achieving the Type approval maximum, which given the stated values they are not, they are well suited. The maker is under no dictate to offer a maximum that exploits all the individual maximums summed.

Edit: your latest post implies the "new sticker" has become the legal type approval plate; it now begs the question if where it is and its durability makes it legal as such, then I feel the locker plate needs to be removed as two differing plates with the same type approval, surely can't be legal or where would the authorities look?

All part of the utter stupidity this industry has made of it.

 

[Ern]

I don't quite understand why you are considering a new car to resolve the rating plate issue we started discussing. It appears that the plate in your gas locker is wrong, but are the documents also wrong? If so, then the dealer can sort it out.
The uprated caravan can handle the uprated MTPLM if it's loaded correctly.
Many people are using Sprites with twin axles.

 

[otherclive]

I don't quite understand why you are considering a new car to resolve the rating plate issue we started discussing. It appears that the plate in your gas locker is wrong, but are the documents also wrong? If so, then the dealer can sort it out.
The uprated caravan can handle the uprated MTPLM if it's loaded correctly.
Many people are using Sprites with twin axles.

Have I missed something? The caravan is a high spec Bailey not Sprite.

 

[JTQ]

Each axle on the twin axle caravan has a maximum load of 900kg. The same axle is used for single axle caravans hence the 1000kg.
I must admit I would have thought it would be the other way around as with a twin the load is spread over two axles.

But that axle could be used with a twin weighing 1800 kg, but with a single only 1000kgs, therefore there is way more mass involved to abuse either of the twins' axles. Whereas, the SA never will have more than just the 1000kgs.

Of course, assuming both vans are used within their maximum weights.

 

[Ern]

Have I missed something? The caravan is a high spec Bailey not Sprite.

Woops. Yes its a Bailey, but the same goes. The plate issue is a strange one.

 

[Lutz]

Edit: your latest post implies the "new sticker" has become the legal type approval plate; it now begs the question if where it is and its durability makes it legal as such, then I feel the locker plate needs to be removed as two differing plates with the same type approval, surely can't be legal or where would the authorities look?

The label or plate by the door can only be legal if it shows the type approval number. It also has to display the VIN number, the noseweight and axle limits as well as the MTPLM. If further details are included, such as tyre pressures, wheel nut torques, etc., then these must be clearly separated from the legally required information.
There is no requirement specifically to have a plate in the front locker.

 

[Ern]

This is what is in the gas locker as stated in the post. The sticker by the door has the upgraded MTPLM of 1800. It also has the type approval number.

My only query was: should the gas locker plate show the potential MTPLM (in this case 1800).

That was all really.

One solution, would be to remove the plate from the locker. The stutory plate is all you need. Does it show the axle limits as 1000Kg each?

 

[Ste6t9]

One solution, would be to remove the plate from the locker. The stutory plate is all you need. Does it show the axle limits as 1000Kg each?

Sticker at the door and sticker in Gas locker in their entirety

 

[Ste6t9]

Sadly no axle limits on the door sticker.

 

[Ern]

Oh dear! What a jumble. You really need to get your dealer on it.

 

[Lutz]

Sadly no axle limits on the door sticker.

Not only are there no axle limits, but the noseweight, the VIN number and the manufacturer's name (Bailey) are missing on the door label as well. Besides, details such as model name, mass in running order, tyre pressure and wheel torques have no place on a statutory plate and must be clearly separated from those required according to the regulations.

 

[Ste6t9]

Not only are there no axle limits, but the noseweight, the VIN number and the manufacturer's name (Bailey) are missing on the door label as well. Besides, details such as model name, mass in running order, tyre pressure and wheel torques have no place on a statutory plate and must be clearly separated from those required according to the regulations.

It does have manufacturer name on it (out of shot) but that’s all. The VIN is on the one in the locker

 

[Lutz]

It does have manufacturer name on it (out of shot) but that’s all. The VIN is on the one in the locker

If a plate doesn’t show the VIN it’s not an official plate.

 

[Ste6t9]

If a plate doesn’t show the VIN it’s not an official plate.

Therefore the official plate is in the gas locker which still shows an MTPLM of 1724 and axle limits of 900

 

[Lutz]

Therefore the official plate is in the gas locker which still shows an MTPLM of 1724 and axle limits of 900

Correct

 

[Ste6t9]

Correct

So if Bailey supply an upgrade, it is either down to them at the factory, or the dealer to ensure the gas locker plate is also upgraded?

 

[Buckman]

I am fairly sure that if the upgrade is an option it is done by the dealer and not the factory. All they do is remove the old sticker and plaster another one on top of it.

 

[Ste6t9]

I am fairly sure that if the upgrade is an option it is done by the dealer and not the factory. All they do is remove the old sticker and plaster another one on top of it.

This is now back to my original question. If nothing is done with the gas locker plate. Should it originally come with the maximum potential MTPLM?

 

[Buckman]

This is now back to my original question. If nothing is done with the gas locker plate. Should it originally come with the maximum potential MTPLM?

I think that MTPLM has no standing in law and it may not even been mentioned in legislation. However axle weight is mentioned in legislation and it is an offence to exceed the axle weight. The concern here perhaps should be axle weight and not MTPLM?
As per this
A trailer manufacturer must decide the maximum weight the trailer can be loaded to, the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of the trailer, and mark it on the trailer chassis plate. This cannot be exceeded. Sometimes the maximum axle weights are quoted instead and these must not be exceeded.

No mention of MTPLM.

 

[Lutz]

So if Bailey supply an upgrade, it is either down to them at the factory, or the dealer to ensure the gas locker plate is also upgraded?

The statutory plate in the gas locker should already show the upgraded, maximum potential MTPLM. If it doesn't, as apparently in your case, then the caravan manufacturer has committed an error which should be corrected. Either way, because type approval may be affected, only the manufacturer is authorised to issue an upgrade.
Full details of the requirements relating to statutory plates can be found in The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2020 Schedule 1 Part 4 Item 18 where they refer to 76/114/EEC.

I think that MTPLM has no standing in law and it may not even been mentioned in legislation. However axle weight is mentioned in legislation and it is an offence to exceed the axle weight. The concern here perhaps should be axle weight and not MTPLM?

MTPLM most certainly has a standing in law and it is referred to in the same UK regulation that I mentioned above. One can find it in Schedule 1 Part 4 Item 48.

 

[Ste6t9]

Thank You.

It takes 50 posts for someone to finally tell me I’m not going mad.

I understand axle weights, I understand that the all up weight includes nose weight even though it is transferred to the car axle. I have a class C licence and have driven trucks and understand axle weights.

Ibhave done more than enough weighing because I don’t want to be in violation of any laws

I also know that the plate in the locker is a plate (I’m guessing they used to be stamped like the trucks did) and therefore should show the potential maximums. If this is 900 per axle then great, no worries-I can shift things around and deal with it. The main query was that is the GVW of the van was wrong, then what else was because the DVSA on impression will find 2 conflicting sets of figures.