IS IT OK TO TUBULAR HEAT VAN INSTEAD OF DRAINING DOWN??

[Colinn]

Time of the year to start thinking about wintering the van - this time thought I would place a low-wattage tubular heater in the van to switch on during the cold snap periods rather than drain down the water system. Fortunately, my van is tucked away in my garden and adjacent to external power supply.

Does anyone else do this, is it effective to protect all the piping right back to the inlet, and is there anything I should be aware of?

(...don't ask - why winter it, use it...winter caravanning has no appeal to me whatsoever!!)

 

[Pat_374304630]

Hi Colin

I keep my van on my drive.In winter I always drain the water but keep a small oil filled radiator in the van so it dosn't get damp.

 

[J.Lo]

Dont leave it with water in, the taps are sure to crack.Open the taps open the drains it has got to be quicker than messing about with heaters. J.Lo

 

[Lutz]

I see little point in wasting energy to heat the caravan over winter when draining the system costs nothing but a bit of time. Besides, some of the plumbing may be tucked away in a corner or even under the floor and would therefore never benefit from any protection a small heater has to offer. To make sure that adequate heat gets everywhere where it's needed you'd probably need quite a substantial heater. Unless there's a water leak somewhere a caravan won't get damp when standing out in the cold. It might get clammy but that will easily go away if you heat the caravan for a day or so before using it again.

 

[MikeJE]

To make draining down easier when leaving a site I replaced the red drain plug - a right faff to get hold of and remove - with a two inch length of hose with a through tap. Dead easy now; just feel under 'van, locate tap and turn. Reverse the procedure when next pitching up. Saves all the worry of cracked taps or hoses.

 

[Rubix]

Can anyone tell me what the exact purpose of the red drain plug ?

That is assuming it is the same for all 'vans.

When I leave a pitch, I make sure all taps have been opened, I drain the water heater by using the drain plug (on the bottom left of the water heater). I also take out the water filter.

I was told when I bought the van, I didn't need to bother with this red plug until winter.

If I undertsnd the water system correctly the water comes from the fresh water container through the pump, then the water filter into the heater "assembly". The water then bypasses the heater if a cold water tap has been opened straight out of the taps (via the non-return valve). If a hot water tap is opened the water then passes through the water heater, then out the tap.

I thought that there was no reseviour for cold water (with no on board tank), but if I have drained the water heater what is this plug for ? I have removed it after I have drained the heater and a very small amount of water (seemd cold/luke warm, not cold) cam out.

Would it also drain the water heater if I took this red plug out first ?

Thanks, Rubix

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Our water heater is only ever drained if the van is not being used in the winter. I've never known anyone drain the heater every time they leave a pitch! Or have we missed something?

My parents store our caravan and during winter it is heated most days we have never had any damp in a van.

Ria

 

[Rubix]

I drain it save weight. Ours holds approx 6 litres (around 6 Kg) and any weight saved, uses less fuel, and makes it more stable when towing (our heater is behind the axle).

I'm not being pedantic, but you don't take a full agua-roll so why tow with a full water heater.

I'm new to carravanning, but it seemed to make sense to me, and I have heard many people recommend it.

 

[Pat_374304630]

I always drain the water before I leave the site.

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

The specific instructions for our present and previous water heaters refer to draining being needed in winter to avoid freezing!

I have never seen any mention of draining down every time you move pitch and can honestly say I have never seen anyone do so with a water heater and no one we have ever caravanned with does it.

We've always understood that you drain down in board storage tank but leave the water heater well alone as more importantly it helps prevent air locks when you re connect or accidently switching the heater on with no water in it.

The drain plugs are not even made easy user friendly and are well known for snapping. The water content is contained in it contained unit and should not effect the vans towing performance. If the heater was to be drained every time you move the van I think the manufacturers instructions would advise that, plus an easy to use tap and user friendly outlet would be provided by the manufacturer.

Tip. We even carry a spare drain plug if you keep draining it down make sure you carry a spare yourselves.

Ria

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colinn,

Other contributors have pointed out that freezing water can damage taps, but in addition to that the other items that seem to be prone to frost damage are the crystal filters, and the water heaters.

A small tubular heater in the caravan may protect the taps, but it is unlikely to protect the items on the outside of the van such as the Crystal and Cascade products.

The best solution is to drain over winter. That removes the risk.

The other point that has been discussed is weather to drain when travelling. The majority of water heaters will hold about 9 litres (2 gallons) of water. That is 9Kg of additional weight taken out of your payload capacity.

It is also a concern with the Cascade Mk2 products that the 9Kg mass of water can place the tank joint under some strain whilst travelling. This amount of mass subjected to the accelerations due to the movement of the caravan can weaken the joint and make it more prone to leaking. It is vitally important that the tank's insulation jacket is installed so the end of the tank is properly supported.

For added protection if the tank is emptied whilst travelling the risk of damage is reduced.

My recommendation is to drain.

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Our caravan will have covered around 20000 miles this year and previous vans did the same plus more as we've share our caravans with our parents.

The only problem we've ever encountered with a water heater is when it was accidently switched on after it had been drained in winter and the dealer said at the time it was quite a common occurence.

I don't know what quality of vans John has had but we have never seen any sign of a "weakening joint.

If there was any doubt, caravan and the heater manufacturer would soon have be telling us all to drain them down!

Some moan about women making work, it seems we have a few male "old women" making hard work out of caravanning.

Are tow car is pretty snappy mover compared to most with a caravan hitched, "mass, acceleration, strain" if that's a concern you are buying the wrong vans

Ria

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Ria

yes I am an 'old woman' - I have had to report on gas appliances where an incident has occurred, and invariably the failure has been due to someone failing to follow the manufactures instructions or abusing the appliance.

So if my advice is timely and saves a miss-hap or something worse then my job is well done.

On a practical note Carver do recommend draining down.

 

[RonD]

It makes perfect sense to me(and many others)to drain down the water heater before travelling for the reasons outlined above. The CC advises not to drain the very hot water onto grass pitches as it will obviously ruin the grass, so a lot of us must be doing it.

 

[LadyMo]

We always drain down our water heater before travelling......the less weight in the van the better.....particularly when it is sloshing around.

Maureen

 

[Colinn]

bl**dy hell, i wish i'd never asked. i was concerned about draining down ONCE A YEAR...now you're saying EVERY TRIP. i'm just off to lie-down in a darkened room!!

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

I was joking John L

Carver do recommend draining down, but only for winter!

I got out our Carver user instructions and installers instruction for fitting and testing that came within our caravan pack.

Reading both manuals they only advise to drain down for winter or in freezing weather not every time you move. Also Carvers are not designed for frequent drain downs.

As before, we've been advised by service engineers not to drain it down. Other forums have countless questions about the heaters not working and water not flowing!

I've not seen anyone drain down a Carver on site and would guess that most caravans and motorhomes parked near us have a Carver water heater.

Ria

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Carver Instructions say-

"When the caravan is STORED during the WINTER it must be drained down"

"REMOVE the drain plug and STORE in a safe place"

Even I know that you do not have gallons of water sloshing around due to the way the heater works and is constructed!

Some must spend to long in the unreal caravanning world of CC one upmanship with all the petty little routines and points scoring.

Motorhomes and Boats also use Carver heaters, and owners just do not drain down every time they are moved.

Carver say that the drain plug should be left out when drained down and the system should be sterilised.

I guess some do that every time they pitch up at a site ;-(

Ria

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

ps

http://www.arcsystems.biz/manuals/Cascade2.PDF
Please, do tell where the instructions are to drain down every time you move?

Ria

 

[ProfJohnL]

Throughout this thread there are some people who continue to imply that blue badge holders are exempt for paying for parking.

Whether or not blue badge holders have to pay for parking is down the organisation that operates the car park. It is a local decision.

In some car parks Blue badge holders do have special spaces but are required to pay just as every one else.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ria

Please calm down!

Your typing fingers will be worn away.

You are correct, that the instructions do only say it is essential when storing the caravan for winter.

During the course of my work I attended various manufactures product-training courses, including many of Carver's.

The Cascade 2 was designed to be supported by the floor of the caravan, but a number of caravan manufactures routed various pipes under the main casting which meant that the heater was actually raised above the floor, or that the accuracy of the caravan construction sometimes caused the tank to be slightly tilted so that in either case the inboard end of the heater was not supported properly.

The need for that support was to counter the effect of having the tank and its 9 litres of water was cantilevered of the rear of the main casting. Whilst stationary, there was no real problem, but under motion, the vibrations and accelerations imposed on the caravan structure would cause considerably greater loads than just the 9kgf.

Just as an example, from testing that I was involved with, the internal structures of a caravan can be exposed to 4g accelerations during towing. That means that the 9kg mass would be exerting 9x 4 =36 Kgf on heater. Due to the cantilever design and the effect of force on the length of the tank the joint can see impact loads in excess of 70Kgf. These load are very short duration but never the less they do 'work' the joint.

With proper support the tank can weather these loads but if for the many reasons the tank is not supported then the tank joint can suffer. The engineers agreed that to lessen the load is no bad thing, and they agreed that draining for each trip is a sensible precaution.

For the reasons I have already given I still recommend that the system is drained of whilst travelling.

Carvers instructions do as you say recommend draining down for winter, but speak to almost any caravan engineer and they would agree that it better not to have 9Kg of water 'sloshing' (thanks for that great word Maureen) around.

I was also able to speak with Carver's service engineers and they agreed that is better lighten the load, especially when the foot of the insulations jacket was not firmly supported by the floor.

Others are perfectly free to have their own views about this.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Throughout this thread there are some people who continue to imply that blue badge holders are exempt for paying for parking.

Whether or not blue badge holders have to pay for parking is down the organisation that operates the car park. It is a local decision.

In some car parks Blue badge holders do have special spaces but are required to pay just as every one else.

Sorry wrong thread

 

[MikeJE]

Another reason for draining down on leaving a site when you are returning home and putting the 'van back into storage is that freezing conditions can occur either side of what is considered to be winter.

 

[GillW]

As we bought a caravan with no manual or handbook we are finding most things out by trial and error and with a great deal of help from this forum

We have discovered the drain plug on the side of the van and do now drain down every time we pack up to go home just as I empty the flush of the toilet which I know others dont always do My idea is less weight all round

But does this topic mean there is also another drain tap under the van I have been missing? If so where am I likely to find it

Thanks for any help

Gill

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Collin.

Just drain down for winter and keep the van warm if you have that option!

As for John L, I guess some will believe his record, but on this forum I'm not so sure with some of the threads I've seen (nothing personal John L).

I don't believe that caravan manufacturers build such flimsy vans that they could face a major problem with the water heater or that Carver would ignore potential problems if was in fact a problem.

And even a girlie knows Johns theories on forces exerted is a little simplistic and fanciful, anything goes to make a point I guess

Ria