And me Martin. I've just spent another bucketful of money on the old, virtually non-polluting Range Rover to try and keep it going for another couple of years.
Prof, that all sounds absolutely horrendous to my old brain!ProfJohnL said:Hello Clive,
I was specifically thinking of the Outlander PHEV. (There are similar systems available from other manufacturers) I believe it uses an all electric drive train, so the petrol engine is optomised to be a generator. The driver can select whether to run just on battery (limited range at best about 30 miles), or on 'series' charge, where the engine only recharges the battery, or on parallel hybrid mode, where the engine delivers electric power directly to the motors, and the battery just adds power for high demands. You can select regenerative braking, and power saving modes to protect the battery charge. So an effective technology is already available. From the caravanner's perspective, the added weight of a battery driven car would be attractive with regards to the towing ratio, but the Outander PHEV is limited to 1500kg towed weight.
Given the abysmally slow average speeds and stop start nature of traffic in London and other urban areas, I'd guess the actual distance travelled by a London taxi is no more than 250 miles and often much less. Tesla have already proven that an all electric vehicle with a decent range can be produced, if the Tesla battery was used with a far more modest motor, I'd guess a London taxi could manage on a single charge per day.
LTI who manufacture the infamous black cab, have today (Daily Telegraph 13 Dec 2016) announced a hybrid version, which only uses an on board generator, but not plug in!☺
Raywood said:From what I have read the PHEV is only more e3fficient on short runs. On longer ones you are basically running on the petrol or diesel so it makes no difference. Basically what you get is a very efficient vehicle for short journeys if that is what you need but otherwise you will never recover the extra cost.
emmerson said:...
And all it would need would be one thirty-bob relay to stick, and bring the whole lot to a shuddering halt!
I'll stick to good old suck, squeeze, bang and blow thank you!
Dustydog said:As I said earlier a number of manufacturers are making clean diesels so clean they attract a zero road tax rate.
Have I missed something
RayS said:Being the age I am it's not a problem to me and I guess not to many younger than me.
For a moment forget cars, and let's assume roughly roughly that pollution is proportional to engine capacity given the engines are of the same basic design and equipped with the same class of anti-pollution filters additives etc.
Then think about the number of HGV's long distance buses, DMU trains, tractors, etc. not to mention big ships (they have to come into port) and the death of the diesel will not be for many many years. I am not aware of any hybrid HGV's in service (city vans, yes, longhaul, no.
So in the shorter term it may come down to zone charges in cities. Now almost by definition there are not many caravan sites in cities and a far proportion of us live outside cities too.
So it would be unfair and more importantly unpopular with the voters to penalise all diesel users across the piece. Those who want to two through or visit cities will just have to accept the extra charges as they do for parking, price of a pint etc.
It seems to that the high torque petrol engines are mainly to be found in moderately up market aka expensive cars whereas the turbo diesel can be found across the range - I'm talking tow cars, not everything.
So the Freelander 2 issafe for more years yet
SamandRose said:The key question for me that nobody seems to be asking (until pitpony just now) is where is all of the electricity needed to power all of these vehicles going to come from?
At present about 60% of the UK's energy is imported and the existing power stations across the world can only produce so much. Therefore prices will inevitably rise as demand increases, reducing the cost-effectiveness of electric power relative to petrol and diesel. And if the treasury continues to subsidise the difference it will go bankrupt.
Is the electricity going to be generated by nuclear power? Burning of coal? That's less harmful to the environment than burning petrol or diesel, is it?
Also the batteries for electric vehicles need nickel and cadmium inside - both of which are toxic and have to
be shipped round the world to the car production lines. Then the batteries have to be disposed of when they're spent.
This to reduce the NOx emissions from diesel car engines. But as I understand it, about 60% of the UK's NOx emissions don't come from road transport and of the 40% that do, logic suggests that the majority will be from diesel-powered trains, HGVs, buses etc. The engine in your tow car will make no noticeable difference.
Don't get me wrong. I applaud the way that more environmentally sustainable solutions to personal transport are being looked at. But I don't think electricity is the answer, nor do I see the end of diesel for a while yet.
Raywood said:...
I am afraid HGV's do not carry ballast but they rely on the weight imposed by the load to keep the drive wheels from slipping on the road surface. The imposed weight is limited by law and is part of the problem in snow .