Is this the end of diesel tow cars?

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Aug 9, 2010
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Why not use LPG? Very low emissions, and half price, because it uses waste gas.
I have a (probably incorrect) memory of a police car in USA which used nuclear power to generate steam.It had some sort of flash boiler in the boot and rear seat area and a steam engine the front. Whether it was a hoax or just my memory playing tricks, I cannot remember, but i think it was sometime 50s or 60s?
 
Aug 11, 2010
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otherclive said:
You are absolutely right in that even petrol cars emitt small particles and NOX. But its interesting that LEZ and ULEZs still allow older petrol cars to enter so its likely that their emissions aren't as bad as diesels. Viz Londons ULEZ will allow petrol cars up to 15 years old to enter, whilst EU 6 diesels up to 5 years old will be allowed to enter. Regarding the newer petrol cars that use direct injection the German TUV ran some tests in 2013 which showed that a simple particle filter was so effective in cleaning up their exhausts that the report stated that levels close to ambient were achieved. Whats surprising is that Governments aren't pushing the car makers to fit such devices. They are much simpler than the diesel DPF as they only catch the particles and one report stated the cost to be around €40 and they don't need complex regeneration cycles.
Heres the link to the TUV report if you want good bedtime read!http://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/TUV-Technical_report.pdf
nice link thank you Clive. so 2 decades later and still nothing done ,see my point exactly although one fact is missing unless things have changed over the last decades is with age and mileage petrol cars NOX and indeed particle outing grows ,
 
Aug 11, 2010
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emmerson said:
Why not use LPG? Very low emissions, and half price, because it uses waste gas.
I have a (probably incorrect) memory of a police car in USA which used nuclear power to generate steam.It had some sort of flash boiler in the boot and rear seat area and a steam engine the front. Whether it was a hoax or just my memory playing tricks, I cannot remember, but i think it was sometime 50s or 60s?
nice idea until you realize if indeed we all did all use LPG the cost would at least double and as it only makes up less less than 1% of car fuel they are going to have to produce a 1000 times more of the stuff at what cost to the environment they are claiming to try to save
 
Mar 14, 2005
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emmerson said:
Why not use LPG? Very low emissions, and half price, because it uses waste gas.
I have a (probably incorrect) memory of a police car in USA which used nuclear power to generate steam.It had some sort of flash boiler in the boot and rear seat area and a steam engine the front. Whether it was a hoax or just my memory playing tricks, I cannot remember, but i think it was sometime 50s or 60s?

Hello Emerson,
I didn't deliberately leave out LPG from my synopsis, it was an oversight. However there is no doubt that LPG does offer emission benefits over diesel and petrol. What is surprising about LPG, it's estimated (Wikipedia) there are about 160,000 (less than 1%) of UK vehicles using LPG this is a very small take up. As far as I know no current UK car supplier offers LPG as a factory specification, so its also most always an after market fit and creates a dual fuel vehicle - which I suppose you could also call electric hybrids.

LPG is recognised as having a number of benefits over petrol. I does burn more cleanly leaving fewer residues. This means engines can run longer before needing major overhauls. But it does not produce quite so much power.

If the uptake of LPG for power was increased, I'm not sure how that would affect the supply infrastructure. The WLPGA website tells us "LPG has two origins: approximately 60% is recovered during the extraction of natural gas and oil from the earth, and the remaining 40% is produced during the refining of crude oil". So if LPG is effectively a byproduct of the cracking of crude oil, then its supply will be dependant on the continued extraction and refining of crude. If demand for both Diesel and Petrol were reduced, and LPG was increasing we could quickly find the production of LPG is insufficient to meet demand.

What I am certain of, is if LPG take was much more, the tax incentives that currently make it so attractive to a few would be changed.

With more pollution sensitive zones appearing in cities and towns I could see organisations that have fleets of small local vehicles choosing to switch to LPG, as it is almost as convenient and quick to fill up as diesel of petrol.
 
Aug 9, 2010
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As usual, all correct, Prof! I've never really thought about the enviromental benefits of LPG. I'm more concerned about the benefits to my pocket!
The cleanliness of the gas is apparent at every MOT; my Range Rover just whistles through, generally with zero or very low emission. We switched it back to petrol on test last week, and the emission figure was a ginormous fail! But as the law states that the vehicle must be tested as presented, the tester is not allowed to change over. As I could not afford to run non petrol anyway, the comparison is academic.
With regard to the low take-up for LPG, i think most of the problem is ignorance, and it seems that if people are ignorant of its benefits then they just do not want to know.
A friend even had an RAC man refuse to touch her car when it broke down, and wanted the road coned off and the police brought in to direct traffic, in case the car blew up!
I kid you not!
LPG is now very easy to find, in spite of M&S/BP no longer selling it, as SHELL now sell it at almost all of their stations, and actually advertise it on Classic FM.
I've used gas now for over twenty years, on three different Range Rovers, never had a problem caused by gas, and have saved a vast amount of money. The doom-sayers always tell me that it will soon disappear/ go up in price to match petrol etc etc, but whatever happens, I've had some very cheap motoring!
 
Aug 11, 2010
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emmerson said:
As usual, all correct, Prof! I've never really thought about the enviromental benefits of LPG. I'm more concerned about the benefits to my pocket!
The cleanliness of the gas is apparent at every MOT; my Range Rover just whistles through, generally with zero or very low emission. We switched it back to petrol on test last week, and the emission figure was a ginormous fail! But as the law states that the vehicle must be tested as presented, the tester is not allowed to change over. As I could not afford to run non petrol anyway, the comparison is academic.
With regard to the low take-up for LPG, i think most of the problem is ignorance, and it seems that if people are ignorant of its benefits then they just do not want to know.
A friend even had an RAC man refuse to touch her car when it broke down, and wanted the road coned off and the police brought in to direct traffic, in case the car blew up!
I kid you not!
LPG is now very easy to find, in spite of M&S/BP no longer selling it, as SHELL now sell it at almost all of their stations, and actually advertise it on Classic FM.
I've used gas now for over twenty years, on three different Range Rovers, never had a problem caused by gas, and have saved a vast amount of money. The doom-sayers always tell me that it will soon disappear/ go up in price to match petrol etc etc, but whatever happens, I've had some very cheap motoring!
on the continent vehicles can be bought new which are either lpg or methane powered.. but to be honest its almost always fitted to lower powered family type cars of low CC say 1600cc and frankly they just don't give either the performance or mpg that a proper petrol car does in test after test .heck on and off you could have bought a lpg or methane powered car in Italy since the mid 80s but i believe they just wont ever sell in big numbers until they actually start giving punters a better choice of car and fit them more powerful cars...
 
Aug 9, 2010
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Ford, Rover, Vauxhall and Volvo sold factory dual-fuel cars, but I don't know if they still do.
I must admit that I've had no dealings with low powered LPG cars. All of mine were 3.5 or above, but a pal had a Rover 75 V6 on gas which went quite well.
Aside from the Range Rover I also run a 2.0 litre Talbot camper which I have thought to convert, but, whilst one or two horses form a huge herd are not missed, I am wary about only a coral full!
 

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