L-R Discovery vs Renault Espace

[sparkes]

I find it strange you sit there and attack a make of car and then get all upset when others attack back.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE4D71E3EF933A05757C0A96E948260
Renault have lots of money available to develop cars where most manufacturers have to make a profit from their cars. I am sure that with that kind of money Triumph would be able to make an NCAP5 Bike, let alone a car.

The French are renowned for manipulating the market with government money.

The discussion did not mention BL at all, just LR and Renault. How many 25 yr old Renaults are still on the road? Not many I bet, certainly no where near the 70% of LR that are.

I did not see the test, but as I have said there are too many variables to make a fair test. did they accelerate at the same speed? was there a head wind on either? did the Renault ride up ?

Ncap is a std test against a block, so in the real world they are invalid. Just a starter for people to pick against with their own choice.

I will stick with my old shape discovery and its safe towing limit. And, you may not understand this, but I will also continue to avoid head on crashes with any car!

 

[MONKEY1]

Steve,

I think it's ironic you pick on Renault for rust - the MK 1 LR Discovery had appalling rust issues it did get better with the MK II but not a lot !!

Also you comment on Renault finances is misjudged because their overseas activities in particular the renaissance of Nissan makes them one of the most profitable groups in the world !! The French Government have lent money but it is subject to EU clearance and is no different to many co's in this country !!

Having said that your're right....Any attack on LR with regards to accidents is really pointless because accidents are different every time there are so many variables Driver, Experience, Load, time of day, vehicle condition, road condition, driver awareness, reactions etc (the list goes on and on ).

Take it from me or rather my father who done 30 years plus in the MET Police a lot of it as a traffic cop either on a motorcycle or in a car. You can see accidents an say "corr that guy got away with it" and some times a car hits something hard and it disintegrates but hey guess what it's designed to ..

I do appreciate the job NCAP does, it does give you a standard and is commendable in its objectives. But it's just one consideration anyone should when buying a car.

Monkeys Husband

 

[Viking1]

What a lot of you are missing is that there is a lot of LR over ten years old on the road than there is over cars so that must speak for its self.

Mark

 

[sparkes]

You are right.

Every car has its plus and minus's. for me, I would rather tow at a safer limit than have to pull my van at 114% loading. No car ever created is safe in an accident, your father is right. Its down to the forces involved and where they have acted. I have seen a new Volvo written off by a 5mph bump due to the exact hit on a sensor that set off the full safty systems. While I have also seen a guy walk away from a 100+ mph crash in a corsa. (I was more amazed at the speed than his survival if I am honest)

As for the "loan" for renault, this happens every few months and they would not exist at all if it was not for the financing they get from their government. Not all manufacturers get this.

Considering they own 44% of nissen, they have other places money could come from

 

[giovanni_5060838]

You are right.

Every car has its plus and minus's. for me, I would rather tow at a safer limit than have to pull my van at 114% loading. No car ever created is safe in an accident, your father is right. Its down to the forces involved and where they have acted. I have seen a new Volvo written off by a 5mph bump due to the exact hit on a sensor that set off the full safty systems. While I have also seen a guy walk away from a 100+ mph crash in a corsa. (I was more amazed at the speed than his survival if I am honest)

As for the "loan" for renault, this happens every few months and they would not exist at all if it was not for the financing they get from their government. Not all manufacturers get this.

Considering they own 44% of nissen, they have other places money could come from

i really don't get it.

renault don't get money ever other month! they are profitable and

have been for many years, so don't understand why u say this?

afterall what u are saying also apllies treble to land rover,

who afterall were part of BL and therefore your beloved lr

wouldn't exits if it wasn't for this government hand outs

 

[sparkes]

i really don't get it.

renault don't get money ever other month! they are profitable and

have been for many years, so don't understand why u say this?

afterall what u are saying also apllies treble to land rover,

who afterall were part of BL and therefore your beloved lr

wouldn't exits if it wasn't for this government hand outs

Gio

I am lost now, are you pro Renault or anto LR?

Oh, and they nearly did, BMW managed to stop it by buying them. Renault have assets to sell (see nissen above) so should not be able to get grants of 20m EUROs.

The difference is that the UK government only does it in an attempt to save jobs, the French do it in an attempt to take market share

 

[giovanni_5060838]

What a lot of you are missing is that there is a lot of LR over ten years old on the road than there is over cars so that must speak for its self.

Mark

sorry don't get it.

why does it speak volumes?

are you counting farm vehicles or just cars like the discovery

and range rover, as there is a huge diference,and maybe there are more massey fergusons still on the road then lr...

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Gio

I am lost now, are you pro Renault or anto LR?

Oh, and they nearly did, BMW managed to stop it by buying them. Renault have assets to sell (see nissen above) so should not be able to get grants of 20m EUROs.

The difference is that the UK government only does it in an attempt to save jobs, the French do it in an attempt to take market share

sparkes, i am neither.

as happens alot on here the topic seem to change directions when some are displeased with actual facts.......

this should have been about safety, and although the ncap rating

system maybe flawed, its a dam site better than nothing.and its

about saving people rather than cars......

 

[sparkes]

sparkes, i am neither.

as happens alot on here the topic seem to change directions when some are displeased with actual facts.......

this should have been about safety, and although the ncap rating

system maybe flawed, its a dam site better than nothing.and its

about saving people rather than cars......

then if it was safty you are interested in then you would agree that a new ncap 5 rated car against a 15 yr old design is neither fair or a real works test. if it was then why did we not see the new discovery against the old espace (one of the worst cars ever tested)

 

[colin(bridgend)]

The test between the Disco and Espace is reported in this weeks Auto Express

 

[scottironsbtinternet.com]

OK I understand.

Happy motoring

sparks what kind of van do you tow and what with?As the renult is about 2000kg it will tow anything at less than 100%.

Not A RENAULT DRIVER

 

[scottironsbtinternet.com]

Sparks what do you tow and what with?As the Renault is about 2000kg and will tow almost any van at less than 100%(where do you get the 114% from).As for rust the have plastic doors and have done since they were first bulit.I do not have an Espace in case you think I am biased but I do drive a works Kangoo with 100,000 miles and no rust!

 

[sparkes]

2005 renault espace 2.0 Turbo - 1685KG 85%=1432

No not 200kg

2005 3.0dCi 1845kg 85% = 1568

No not 2000 kg either

So where did the 2000kg come from?

neither is anywhere near the weight of my van

 

[Moderator2_5083849]

Certain postings have been removed due to the personal abuse aspect of the postings.

Please keep postings on topic, without resorting to the personal abuse

 

[Damian]

Being the unfortunate owner of an Espace, the 2000kg tow limit is what is stated in the cars handbook, as the max permissable towing limit, subject to the max train weight, of course.

 

[mcghee]

I had a feeling the 2000kg was a max tow figure. This topic didn't really call the Espace's towing ability into question, we all know it's a decent tow. The main thrust of this thread was that the new Espace was safer in a head on collision than a Discovery, which it may well be, but that doesn't mean all Discovery owners should buy Espaces. I don't have a Discovery, but between the Disco and Espace, I'd need the Disco to tow my 'van safely. The Espace may be safer in a crash, but I tow a lot more often than I crash.

 

[scottironsbtinternet.com]

Funny the new 2006 Espace is 2035kg..get your facts right.Yes everythings at some point RUSTS..what kind of car do you have that does not RUST?

 

[sparkes]

The facts are right. as it clearly states I used 2005 figure.

And who said I had a car that does not rust? Ok its made of ali but I did not state I had a car that did not rust.

You like an argument, dont you?

So heres some figures for you

Espace 2.0 140 - 1665kg

Espace 2.2 dCi 150 Auto - 1795Kg

So, another made up figure by you.

Figures direct from the Renault UK web site and no 2006 Espace weighs 2035kg. Not even the Grand Espace 3.0 v6 is close at 1890Kg

So come on, what version weighs in at over 2000Kg?

 

[scottironsbtinternet.com]

TRY WHATTOWCAR.COM for the figures.YOU SAID Renaults rust in 3 weeks thats why you wouldnt have 1.So make your mind up.Why are you ashamed of naming your car and caravan so that other people work out the figures?

 

[Damian]

The old espace, up to 2001/2002, were prety good regarding lacking of rust, as the body was/is composite, except for the bonnet, which is steel.

The New style renault have taken a step backwards, as the body is made of steel, by Renault, as they ditched Matra in favour of their own "In House" production.

The chassis is galvanised steel, so , potentially no problems there, on the old espace, dont know about the new style.

My last Renault, a 21TXE went on for 145000 miles with no problems, but then started showing increasing amounts of rust, but was a most reliable car, never let me down, unlike the Espace I bought new, which has gone through 8 primary fuel pumps and one high pressure pump and associated high pressure distribution module.

 

[sparkes]

TRY WHATTOWCAR.COM for the figures.YOU SAID Renaults rust in 3 weeks thats why you wouldnt have 1.So make your mind up.Why are you ashamed of naming your car and caravan so that other people work out the figures?

WOW, you need to mail Renault and tell them that their data is wrong!

as I have said before, it is common knowledge what I drive and what I tow, CAN YOU NOT READ?

Oh, I forgot, no you cannot as the question still stands...what version weighs in at over 2000Kg?

 

[Moderator2_5083849]

This topic is showing signs of devolving into a personal attack and this will not be allowed to happen.

Please do not keep the antagonism going, and keep on topic, without resorting to outright baiting in the hope of similar reponses,they WILL be removed, as will the whole thread if needed.

Thank you

 

[sparkes]

TRY WHATTOWCAR.COM for the figures.YOU SAID Renaults rust in 3 weeks thats why you wouldnt have 1.So make your mind up.Why are you ashamed of naming your car and caravan so that other people work out the figures?

Funny, I have just tried the site you suggested and it shows the same weight as the renault site.

so again - what version weighs in at over 2000Kg? I would hate to see people being given dangerous information without any proof

 

[scottironsbtinternet.com]

WOW, you need to mail Renault and tell them that their data is wrong!

as I have said before, it is common knowledge what I drive and what I tow, CAN YOU NOT READ?

Oh, I forgot, no you cannot as the question still stands...what version weighs in at over 2000Kg?

Look I am not getting into a slagging match,the car I am talking about is 2006 2.2dci ,as stated 2035kg.I find it very strange that you can get figures from Renault on an old model.Common knowledge on what you drive and tow?Common to who?Who cares?Not me.

The point of the thread was you said to tow your van would be 114% as you said would be daft,all I was pointing out the a 2006 2.2dci Espace could tow any caravan and not be over the 100%

 

[scottironsbtinternet.com]

Funny, I have just tried the site you suggested and it shows the same weight as the renault site.

so again - what version weighs in at over 2000Kg? I would hate to see people being given dangerous information without any proof

Ok fair comment,when you go into the site it says 2035kg for the Renault when you are compairing 2 cars and one van,but when you go to compute outfit the figure changes to 1755kg.Even at the lower weight it is 99% towing a 1691kg van