Learner driver

[Dustydog]

Okay then we have no issue regarding the insurance and myself as instructor while grandson is driving.

As an aside. A while ago I bought a car for OH from a dealership using finance and asked for the car to be registered in my wife's name. No problem says dealer. I take out insurance with car registered to OH with her as main driver.

V5C arrives and is in my name. I query this and told that as I am using finance having the car in her name is known as "fronting" for some reason. Neither of us have any credit issues.

Anyway I accept it and advise insurance that car is registered to me, but OH is still the main driver. The premium jumps up by about £200 and when I query this I am told that it is known as "fronting".

Either way we lose even though both of us have over 25 years NCB! As said insurance companies are not your friend!

As it turned out we rejected the car within days of delivery and no issue with refund from dealership.

This raises an interesting question.
Who is the legal owner of the vehicle?

The V5C only states who is the Registered Keeper not the Owner. Another example of AI at Insurers becoming removed from the real world🤬

 

[Buckman]

Weirdly if I put the car in my name with me as main driver and OH as additional driver, but with myself with zero NCB, the quote was lower!

 

[RogerL]

This raises an interesting question.
Who is the legal owner of the vehicle?

The V5C only states who is the Registered Keeper not the Owner. Another example of AI at Insurers becoming removed from the real world🤬

Most new cars are bought on finance - so the finance house is the legal owner with the person/business with the credit agreement as the registered keeper - who in turn may be different from the main driver.

In reality the owner and/or registered keeper doesn't, or shouldn't, come in to "fronting" - which is simply the fraudulent declaration of main driver - but this potential 3-way naming is too much for some computer systems!

 

[otherclive]

Okay then we have no issue regarding the insurance and myself as instructor while grandson is driving.

As an aside. A while ago I bought a car for OH from a dealership using finance and asked for the car to be registered in my wife's name. No problem says dealer. I take out insurance with car registered to OH with her as main driver.

V5C arrives and is in my name. I query this and told that as I am using finance having the car in her name is known as "fronting" for some reason. Neither of us have any credit issues.

Anyway I accept it and advise insurance that car is registered to me, but OH is still the main driver. The premium jumps up by about £200 and when I query this I am told that it is known as "fronting".

Either way we lose even though both of us have over 25 years NCB! As said insurance companies are not your friend!

As it turned out we rejected the car within days of delivery and no issue with refund from dealership.

Has the Corolla gone to Corolla heaven? Or are you keeping it fir Classic Club drive outs?

 

[Buckman]

Has the Corolla gone to Corolla heaven? Or are you keeping it fir Classic Club drive outs?

Bought for £850 in 2012 and sold Feb for £650 with 125k on the clock. Only money spent on it was wear & tear. Advertised on Autotrader for £750 and phone never stopped ringing. It was sold to the first person inquiring and they travelled up from London!.

 

[otherclive]

Most new cars are bought on finance - so the finance house is the legal owner with the person/business with the credit agreement as the registered keeper - who in turn may be different from the main driver.

In reality the owner and/or registered keeper doesn't, or shouldn't, come in to "fronting" - which is simply the fraudulent declaration of main driver - but this potential 3-way naming is too much for some computer systems!

I was concerned that wrt our second car we could be accused of fronting, so I took pains to speak to the insurer (LV) to make sure that they were aware of the situation wrt both cars and who was main driver and registers keeper etc. I then kept a written record of the conversation.

Now we have both cars on a single policy with daughter and grandson as named drivers too. It’s allowed my grandson to return his Tesla and mainly he and his partner manage now with just one car.

Not too easy explaining that to a Bot though.

 

[otherclive]

Bought for £850 in 2012 and sold Feb for £650 with 125k on the clock. Only money spent on it was wear & tear. Advertised on Autotrader for £750 and phone never stopped ringing. It was sold to the first person inquiring and they travelled up from London!.

Amazing, they were cracking cars. No doubt the new owner will cherish it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The government appears to disagree with you Mr Plodd.

(Sam's question as I understood it was whether someone with an 'auto only' licence could supervise a learner driver in a manual car.......... no they can't).

Driving lessons and learning to drive

Who can teach you to drive, practising with friends and family, driving lessons, insurance, using L and P plates.

www.gov.uk

Whilst in this instance I think the Gov web site does agree with the underlying Acts of Parliament and regulations, but you cant assume the web site as being an accurate representation of the LAW.

We have seen several inaccuracies over the years in th e website information on the intricacies of driving licence regulations around the Be entitlement, where in one notable case the web site was giving out advice that was actually illegal. Fortunately there are ways to bring errors to attention of the Web Master, but it can take some time to get corrections implemented.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Bought for £850 in 2012 and sold Feb for £650 with 125k on the clock. Only money spent on it was wear & tear. Advertised on Autotrader for £750 and phone never stopped ringing. It was sold to the first person inquiring and they travelled up from London!.

I wonder if the new owner bought it because it was old and thus not subject to the emission zone charges? How old was the car?

 

[otherclive]

Whilst in this instance I think the Gov web site does agree with the underlying Acts of Parliament and regulations, but you cant assume the web site as being an accurate representation of the LAW.

We have seen several inaccuracies over the years in th e website information on the intricacies of driving licence regulations around the Be entitlement, where in one notable case the web site was giving out advice that was actually illegal. Fortunately there are ways to bring errors to attention of the Web Master, but it can take some time to get corrections implemented.

In the case quoted by Beardy the website is correct as it’s been widely known about for years. Post Covid my grandsons partner took lessons in an automatic as there was better availability of lessons. The instructor told her that if she took her test in an automatic she would not be legal to drive a manual.

 

[RogerL]

I was concerned that wrt our second car we could be accused of fronting, so I took pains to speak to the insurer (LV) to make sure that they were aware of the situation wrt both cars and who was main driver and registers keeper etc. I then kept a written record of the conversation.

Now we have both cars on a single policy with daughter and grandson as named drivers too. It’s allowed my grandson to return his Tesla and mainly he and his partner manage now with just one car.

Not too easy explaining that to a Bot though.

In the olden days, we sometimes had a problem defining the main driver of our 2nd car as I drove it just as much as my wife - easy in those days to speak to someone to clarify things but I can imagine it being much harder these days.

 

[Dustydog]

Someone remind me please.
Can a provisional licence holder tow?

 

[Tobes]

I wonder if the new owner bought it because it was old and thus not subject to the emission zone charges? How old was the car?

It's older cars that _are_ subject to the ULEZ, not newer. Petrol Euro4 or better and Diesel Euro6 or better are not subject.

Ways to meet the standard

Find out how to meet the emissions standards of ULEZ

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Hutch]

It's older cars that _are_ subject to the ULEZ, not newer. Petrol Euro4 or better and Diesel Euro6 or better are not subject.

Ways to meet the standard

Find out how to meet the emissions standards of ULEZ

tfl.gov.uk

Vehicles registered before 1st January 1973 are exempt ULEZ and vehicles over 40 years old registered as historic vehicles are also exempt.

 

[otherclive]

Someone remind me please.
Can a provisional licence holder tow?

Beware Profs warnings!

What kind of vehicle do you want to tow with? - Towing: licence and age requirements - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

 

[Tobes]

Vehicles registered before 1st January 1973 are exempt ULEZ and vehicles over 40 years old registered as historic vehicles are also exempt.

Good point - Really old cars (52 years and counting!)

 

[otherclive]

Good point - Really old cars (52 years and counting!)

By the time your count end ULEZ and LEZ will be history for private vehicles as they will all be EV or exempt 😱