Leo McKinstry

[Lord Braykewynde]

Has anyone heard of Leo McKinstry?

He's an Express columnist and he always talks sense. If there was a political party with a leader who had the backbone to carry out the points that Leo made today they would romp home in an election with a massive majority. He is a person what Britain needs to put the Great back into our country.

If this man stood for Parliament he would get my vote everytime.

See http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/51122/Leo-McKinstry for is latest comments.

 

[LMH]

QUOTE from the article: Instead of continuing their obsession with diversity in recruitment, police chiefs should concentrate on hiring large, tough young men, preferably from the services, who might scare the living daylights out of offenders.

---------------

That's a corker.

Lisa

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Better than a 5' 1" policewoman who is about 7 stone wringing wet Lisa, they don't scare nobody ;O)

Or like a local bobby whose helmet was bigger than himself :O( poor thing but he really does look silly and I can imagine fair game for the p*$$heads on a weekend.

 

[joeby]

i read the article ,he says all the right things , but so do the politicians until they get in ,there is a lot of things i would like to say , but real freedom of speech is gone ,unless you want to end up in court ,and made to apologise for having an opinion

 

[LMH]

I know if you had your way, all women would have to stop at home and the only jobs available to them would be something along the lines of cake making.

Very sad by your reply but I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

Lisa

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I understand what you are saying joby but if what he wants came to fruition those nincompoops that you fear wouldn't be around. The politically correct, human rights, diversity is good plonkers would be confined to history :O)

Lisa, you forgot washing up, grocery shopping and having babies :O)

 

[joeby]

personally i am all for women doing equal jobs and equal pay ,without women running industry during the last war ,where would we be ,

 

[Gumbo]

without women running industry during the last war ,where would we be

without women working in industry (working not running industry) small point but very different meaning.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Hi joby, I too am for all women getting equal pay for equal jobs but that isn't the point is it? That is alright as long as they are "fit for purpose" to use an "in" phrase :O)

If you read again I also mentioned a male bobby who was very small, my post was nothing to do with equality, it was to do with diversity and the "all people are equal to all jobs" culture of today.

It is Lisa who is turning it into a feminist issue, as is her want, a favourite subject of hers, and I'm just going along with it :O)

BTW Lisa, I'm getting very forgetful. I should also have mentioned laundry, hoovering and dusting and having even more babies :O)

 

[LMH]

Maybe I have turned it into a feminist issue, because I know I only have a small brain and all I think about is babies and shoes but there was no mention in your post about the following types of people who shouldn't be allowed to join the plods:

*Gay men - not scary enough

*Lesbians - too scary

*Muslims - don't drink alcohol so can't go out drinking off duty with the 'lads' - doesn't go down well in the services

*Irish people - too busy planning how to nick your caravan

*Welsh people - too busy growing leeks

*Scottish people - not sober long enough to do the job

*Disabled people - wouldn't pass the medical

*Responsible dog owners - would get too violent with people who didn't pick up after their dog

*Women drivers - too scared to go over 45 mph

*Boy racers - drive too fast and play their music too loud, the crims would hear them coming

*Old men - talk too much about when they were younger and the country was good. Also, drive too slow

*Chavs - Wouldn't be able to run after a robber, their gold jewelery from Argos would weigh them down too much

*Polish people - would rather earn 50p/hour in the fields than chase crims

*Homeless people - reactions too slow due to all the drugs they use

*Social workers, their open toe sandals are a bit tricky to run in, particularly when chasing crims

*Single mothers - too busy collecting their benefits to take time out to get a job

*Absent fathers - too busy bed hopping to chase crims

I'm sure I've missed some off, please let me know.

Lisa

Seriously - if people and organisations hadn't campaigned for equality, I'll use disabled people as an example, then the buses wouldn't have the suspension which lowers to enable them to get on board with a wheelchair. They wouldn't get DLA (if entitled), a car if they chose that on mobility. (I'm a bit shaky on those benefits these days, having been away from the voluntary sector for six years). The cash points would still be too high for a lot of wheelchair users. Employers would not have had to make reasonable adjustments to the workplace to enable them to employ disabled people....... The list goes on. People (including some disabled people) laugh off equality when I am sure, they're better off now than they were 20 years ago, although there's still work to be done.

Sorry to get on my soap box but I personally couldn't discriminate against people, whether it's against small female police officers or small male officers, muslims or Irish people, it's just not in my nature.

Lisa

 

[Angus1]

Yes, Lisa, there is discrimination about, and its all very distasteful.

For instance my brother-in-law wanted to become a fireman (I tried to persuade him to get a job instead) and found that they were recruiting in Oldham.

Unfortunately, being a white, English male, he could only attend one of the recruitment days, as the other days were reserved for (day 2)women and (day 3) ethnic minorities. Of course the ethnic minority women could attend all three, and the ethnic men two, as could non-minority women.So statistically his chances of getting in were severely diminished by clear racial and gender bias.

Similarly, the drive to recruit ethnic-minority police.

Its not even "politically correct"

What happened to employing the best person for the job?

Or is an outcry only heard when its women or "minorities" who are the making the noise.

The BNP and their like are coming, and their coming is made easier by the fools who think that if you set out to actively disadvantage the indigenous population it will bring about "equality" however that is quantified.

 

[LMH]

Hi Angus

Thanks for the reply.

We have those information days too, the technical term is called positive discrimination. However, the two target groups, ethnic minorities and women interested in joining our Service can only attend one of the days. Why Lancashire (think it's lancs, Geography not too good these days) would allow those groups to attend all three is stupid because that takes valuable places up for non ethnic and males.

Did he go? When we advertise in the local press for full time vacancies, we have to engage a recruitment agency to deal with all the enquiries. A telephone number is published and calls are only taken at the specified times. That is to get an application form only. You can't cheat by getting an application form from someone employed in the service.

We receive thousands of applications. Of those shortlisted from their applications, only a tiny number are called to the next stage which is like an exam but not too taxing.

Applicants will then be sent to spend a day at training school doing timed exercises, such as running between cones, pressing a light, running backwards and forwards. Rolling out hose. All these activities should be done within a certain period of time and the applicant is timed with a stopwatch. If they pass that, they will be called to interview. If successful at interview, they have to attend a medical. If they fail the medical, it's no no, goodbye. I think I have got that the right way round.

There are no formal qualifications needed to get into the service but ALL applicants must be physically fit. There are some illnesses and skin conditions which will bar an applicant. They must have a reasonable standard of English and maths. If they have a criminal record, they will not be considered in any way shape or form.

If any man or woman, regardless of race fail in the above, their application will not be taken any futher.

If offered the job, they will spend around three months intensive training at our training school. They work bloody damn hard, being assessed daily in tasks and fitness and common sense, shedloads of homework. During that time, any recruit, regardless of gender or ethnic background, if they are not upto scratch, will be dismissed. If they show disrespect to colleagues or senior officers, that is dealt with.

If after all that, with constant training and health tests, they pass, they will be assigned to a fire station for two years. For the two years, they have to build up a portfolio. Their fitness is tested regularly and they have to undertake certain tests witnessed by a senior officer. In their portfolio, they must provide written evidence from witnesses (fire service personnel) that they have carried out certain tests and done those tests correctly. If they have issues with seeing their first or the first few dead bodies, that is addressed by the Officer in Charge.

I suggest if your brother in law is still interested, (if he was unsuccessful beforehand), then he should try again. It really is a rewarding worthwhile job although quite stressful and demanding at times. Not everyone can cope with seeing dead bodies (particularly rtc victims on an all too regular basis).

Oh, and for information only, it's firefighter, not fireman.

Lisa.

 

[LMH]

Hi Angus

I forgot to mention, it's worth applying for outside his Fire Service area. Some recruits travel say from the West Midlands to Nottinghamshire, then when taken on fulltime, they can apply to transfer closer to home.

Ex service personnel, army, navy and airforce can carry their service over to the Fire Service.

Not many firefighters leave the service (apart from ill health or retirement) because it's such a good job.

lisa

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Angus what you describe is widespread where the managers are driven by politically correctness.

Avon Fire Service did exactly the same as you described after following the lead of the counties police recruitment.

I quote ....

Fire service bans white men from open days - to boost number of ethnic minority recruits

By MATTHEW HICKLEY

Last updated at 13:00 26 January 2008

White men have been banned from fire brigade recruitment sessions because bosses want to hit their diversity targets.

Four out of five "open" days held by Avon Fire Service were restricted to women and ethnic minorities.

Critics last night accused the West Country brigade of discrimination. An MP said the move would fuel resentment and undermine race relations.

Avon's bosses insist their ban on white men is simply "positive action".

Avon Fire Brigade at a recruitment session today. The fire service held four recruitment days for women and people from ethnic minorities only

Back in October, the same brigade demoted a fire crew who shone their torches at four men they found having sex in bushes.

The decision sparked an outcry from critics who claimed it was politically correct madness.

In the latest incident, five "have-a-go" days at the brigade's Bristol HQ were set up to allow potential job applicants to try out firefighting equipment.

They also had the chance to chat to staff and learn more about selection tests ahead of an application deadline next week.

Two of the six-hour sessions have been limited strictly to women and ethnic minorities. Another was for women only and a fourth was laid on exclusively for ethnic minorities.

Only today's event is open to everyone, allowing white men to attend.

Philip Davies, Tory MP for Shipley in West Yorkshire, said: "This sort of thing just makes people's blood boil and does more damage than good to race relations in this country.

"How would people react if women and black people were banned from an open day?

"I don't care whether the fire service is only made up of ethnic-minority women - as long as they are the best people at fighting fires.

"If the chief fire officer is so concerned, he should give up his job to an ethnic minority woman instead of depriving other white men of a job."

One Avon fireman, speaking anonymously, warned that the targeted recruitment drives were 'not helpful' and would cause resentment.

"It has a very negative effect on everyone," he added.

"When you see people from black and ethnic communities the first thing you think is 'has he or she only got the job because of their minority origin?"

"It's not helpful to them as they may also feel that this is the case. Open, across-the-board recruitment is the only way to stop this."

Avon officials said they were trying to recruit women and ethnic minorities because 97 per cent of their 921 staff were white men.

Kevin Pearson, the brigade's chief officer, said: "I totally refute the allegation that Avon Fire Service is engaged in any form of positive discrimination.

"It is unlawful and we wouldn't do it. We are doing what we can to encourage applications from women and minority groups who are currently under-represented in the fire service.

"It is my concern to improve diversity so the service reflects the community it serves and we can provide the best possible service.

"But that positive action stops at the point of selection. Once someone has applied, they are selected on merit."

He said Avon was aiming for 15 per cent of its staff to be female and 3 per cent to come from ethnic minorities.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission said the fire brigade appeared not to have broken any equality laws.

While positive discrimination between candidates is illegal, a spokesman said, encouraging applicants from particular groups is not.

Avon Fire Service said 103 women and ethnic minority hopefuls had attended the three restricted open days held so far.

The women-only event was attended by 47, the ethnic event by 28, and the joint women and ethnic event by 28. The final event, also joint, will be held today.

Yesterday's session, which was open to all, attracted 179 people within the first 90 minutes.

The open days, along with all other recruitment information, were advertised on the brigade's website.

Avon and Somerset Police were embroiled in a race row two years ago when the force rejected 186 white applicants at the first stage of selection.

The force received 800 applications for just 180 jobs and admitted it had "deselected" white male applicants in a bid to increase ethnic diversity. Chief Constable Colin Port was forced to apologise.

 

[LMH]

LB

Instead of sitting in front of your computer monitor, thrusting opinion out, why not GET OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN? I hear the BNP are looking for recruits. Suit you down to the ground me thinks.

Or are you too bloody chicken man?

Lisa

 

[Angus1]

Actually, my brother-in-law didn`t get past the initial application stage.

Might have been something on his application that didn`t fit.

Perhaps if he had been an ethnic-minority female paratrooper instead of just an English one........

We`ll never know.

I`ve recently been into hospital and TBH I couldn`t give a damn where the doctors and nurses came from, I simply wanted (and yes, felt I deserved) the BEST treatment the NHS could offer.

The trouble with "positive discrimination" is that it doesn`t take into account the needs of the `client`, whether they be patients, victims of crime or whatever. The radical factions of our `society` will use that knowledge to create further divisions, and ultimately civil unrest.

And do you know what, our leaders don`t give a stuff as long as they keep their snouts in the trough. They, along with the deranged do-gooders will watch and wring their hands when the trouble starts, and its all so unnecesssary.

 

[LMH]

Might have been something on his application that didn`t fit.

Perhaps if he had been an ethnic-minority female paratrooper instead of just an English one........

------------------

CRAP Angus, he obviously didn't fill the bloody application form in correctly. It's all about skills matching, person specification etc etc. provide evidence, don't bloody tell me you don't know that and go for the sob story.

'the trouble with "positive discrimination" is that it doesn`t take into account the needs of the `client`,

OMG how wrong can you be??? If you don't pass all the bloody test man, you don't get in, do you want me to spell it out for you.

I was going to say, ask the mod to pass on my email address to you because if your bro in law wanted to reapply, I would give him some pointers. But it's not worth it. I've never been so bloody insulted in all my life.

We all have to take responsibilty for our path in life and we get knock backs all the time. sit on your arse and feel sorry for yourself is NOT in my book.

Lisa

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

LB

Instead of sitting in front of your computer monitor, thrusting opinion out, why not GET OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN? I hear the BNP are looking for recruits. Suit you down to the ground me thinks.

Or are you too bloody chicken man?

Lisa

What's the matter, does the truth hurt Lisa? :O)

 

[Angus1]

Unfortunately Lisa, in your anger, you display irrational traits which as a professional I would have though a danger in your profession.

No, I didn`t see his application. Did you? NO. Therefore you are unqualified to make the statement and judgement.

"If you pass the test you get in" By your statement you infer if you cross the line you are equal. Not so. If your, or indeed any profession does not employ THE BEST available (I passed my 11+, but I wasn`t the best) people particularly when they are funded by the tax payer, we all have a right to know why.

Unless you are saying that everyone is exactly as strong, brainy, resourceful,balanced and technically competent as each other once they have "passed the test".

In which case you are hoist by your own petard.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Might have been something on his application that didn`t fit.

Perhaps if he had been an ethnic-minority female paratrooper instead of just an English one........

------------------

CRAP Angus, he obviously didn't fill the bloody application form in correctly. It's all about skills matching, person specification etc etc. provide evidence, don't bloody tell me you don't know that and go for the sob story.

'the trouble with "positive discrimination" is that it doesn`t take into account the needs of the `client`,

OMG how wrong can you be??? If you don't pass all the bloody test man, you don't get in, do you want me to spell it out for you.

I was going to say, ask the mod to pass on my email address to you because if your bro in law wanted to reapply, I would give him some pointers. But it's not worth it. I've never been so bloody insulted in all my life.

We all have to take responsibilty for our path in life and we get knock backs all the time. sit on your arse and feel sorry for yourself is NOT in my book.

Lisa

Wow!!!!!!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Unfortunately Lisa, in your anger, you display irrational traits which as a professional I would have though a danger in your profession.

No, I didn`t see his application. Did you? NO. Therefore you are unqualified to make the statement and judgement.

"If you pass the test you get in" By your statement you infer if you cross the line you are equal. Not so. If your, or indeed any profession does not employ THE BEST available (I passed my 11+, but I wasn`t the best) people particularly when they are funded by the tax payer, we all have a right to know why.

Unless you are saying that everyone is exactly as strong, brainy, resourceful,balanced and technically competent as each other once they have "passed the test".

In which case you are hoist by your own petard.

Angus, Lisa isn't a firefighter.

 

[Angus1]

Unfortunately Lisa, in your anger, you display irrational traits which as a professional I would have though a danger in your profession.

No, I didn`t see his application. Did you? NO. Therefore you are unqualified to make the statement and judgement.

"If you pass the test you get in" By your statement you infer if you cross the line you are equal. Not so. If your, or indeed any profession does not employ THE BEST available (I passed my 11+, but I wasn`t the best) people particularly when they are funded by the tax payer, we all have a right to know why.

Unless you are saying that everyone is exactly as strong, brainy, resourceful,balanced and technically competent as each other once they have "passed the test".

In which case you are hoist by your own petard.

My mistake.

In that case, she is even less qualified to make her response.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Maybe I have turned it into a feminist issue, because I know I only have a small brain and all I think about is babies and shoes but there was no mention in your post about the following types of people who shouldn't be allowed to join the plods:

*Gay men - not scary enough

*Lesbians - too scary

*Muslims - don't drink alcohol so can't go out drinking off duty with the 'lads' - doesn't go down well in the services

*Irish people - too busy planning how to nick your caravan

*Welsh people - too busy growing leeks

*Scottish people - not sober long enough to do the job

*Disabled people - wouldn't pass the medical

*Responsible dog owners - would get too violent with people who didn't pick up after their dog

*Women drivers - too scared to go over 45 mph

*Boy racers - drive too fast and play their music too loud, the crims would hear them coming

*Old men - talk too much about when they were younger and the country was good. Also, drive too slow

*Chavs - Wouldn't be able to run after a robber, their gold jewelery from Argos would weigh them down too much

*Polish people - would rather earn 50p/hour in the fields than chase crims

*Homeless people - reactions too slow due to all the drugs they use

*Social workers, their open toe sandals are a bit tricky to run in, particularly when chasing crims

*Single mothers - too busy collecting their benefits to take time out to get a job

*Absent fathers - too busy bed hopping to chase crims

I'm sure I've missed some off, please let me know.

Lisa

Seriously - if people and organisations hadn't campaigned for equality, I'll use disabled people as an example, then the buses wouldn't have the suspension which lowers to enable them to get on board with a wheelchair. They wouldn't get DLA (if entitled), a car if they chose that on mobility. (I'm a bit shaky on those benefits these days, having been away from the voluntary sector for six years). The cash points would still be too high for a lot of wheelchair users. Employers would not have had to make reasonable adjustments to the workplace to enable them to employ disabled people....... The list goes on. People (including some disabled people) laugh off equality when I am sure, they're better off now than they were 20 years ago, although there's still work to be done.

Sorry to get on my soap box but I personally couldn't discriminate against people, whether it's against small female police officers or small male officers, muslims or Irish people, it's just not in my nature.

Lisa

Quote .. "the following types of people who shouldn't be allowed to join the plods":

That's most unlike you to be sooooo unpolitically correct Lisa. Plods, along with Big Ears, Three Little Pigs etc. have been confined to the PC dustbin a long time ago ... heh! heh! heh!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Cooooeeeeeeee Lisa, are you there :O)

 

[LMH]

LB

Instead of sitting in front of your computer monitor, thrusting opinion out, why not GET OUT THERE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN? I hear the BNP are looking for recruits. Suit you down to the ground me thinks.

Or are you too bloody chicken man?

Lisa

WHAT TRUTH???