HomerS1 said:
As you appear to have elected to have the work carried out under the manufacturers warrantee, then you are bound by the terns of their warrantee, and I suspect you will be required to get the caravan back to the factory.
IF the repair was being carried out under the CRA, then the seller would be responsible for all transportation costs.
Damian
Moderator
I have to disagree with the Prof on this one.
Presumably your dealer has submitted a report to Lunar, and as they have asked for the van to go back to them, it would be for your dealer to arrange transport.
Presumably your dealer has submitted a report to Lunar, and as they have asked for the van to go back to them, it would be for your dealer to arrange transport.
The Prof raises a very interesting point which may be more complex than we thought.
If the OP goes direct to Lunar bypassing the dealer has he foregone his statutory rights under the CRA? There will be a cost in money and time getting to and from Lunar , twice. Who pays? Not Lunar ? The dealer?
Assuming the Prof is correct and the warranty is between the OP and Lunar can the dealer walk away from this problem for good??
IMO the OP may well be stuck between a rock and a hard place
hmy:
If it were my problem I'd concentrate on the CRA route. I believe in Law no manufacturer's warranty or guarantee can affect or modify your Statutory Rights ie the CRA rules supreme in the chain of events. But then I'm just an old dog
If the OP goes direct to Lunar bypassing the dealer has he foregone his statutory rights under the CRA? There will be a cost in money and time getting to and from Lunar , twice. Who pays? Not Lunar ? The dealer?
Assuming the Prof is correct and the warranty is between the OP and Lunar can the dealer walk away from this problem for good??
IMO the OP may well be stuck between a rock and a hard place
hmy: If it were my problem I'd concentrate on the CRA route. I believe in Law no manufacturer's warranty or guarantee can affect or modify your Statutory Rights ie the CRA rules supreme in the chain of events. But then I'm just an old dog
I think you are ideal on account of my brother by marriage van. It was practically similar to venturing into a gap. For my situation it's only a black out spongyness which could well be dealt with by tar infusion. The issue I have now is one of timing. I would prefer not to take it in now and lose it for the late spring.
Parksy
Moderator
The strange phraseology used in the two posts submitted by the person who you have quoted, plus the 'helpful' URL to a mattress and bedding supplier on their second post elsewhere has led me to believe that a spam merchant was trying to sneak under the radar :dry:
The simple answer to which route you should use is probably both if you need to. There is nothing in law that says you cannot pursue the claim both under the Sale of goods Act or Consumer Protection Act and the guarantee. As for payment for taking the caravan to and back from the manufacturer that claim would only be covered by the claim against the dealer as the guarantee will exclude it.
Thanks Ray
I may have misread the Lunar Warranty but item 16 says its liability is limited to £2500. :woohoo:
Interestingly enough Lunar mention many times refer all warranty issues etc via the dealer.
For me the CRA must still be the supreme arbitrator here for ALL costs involved.
I may have misread the Lunar Warranty but item 16 says its liability is limited to £2500. :woohoo:
Interestingly enough Lunar mention many times refer all warranty issues etc via the dealer.
For me the CRA must still be the supreme arbitrator here for ALL costs involved.
Having had this situation arise with a previous caravan, the dealer has to submit a report to Lunar (having inspected the caravan), and once the claim is accepted, it is then up to you to get the caravan to the dealership, from where Lunar will collect and return as part of the warranty.
Let me clarify my post where I discuss the transportation costs.
I do not have a copy of the Lunar warranty, but of those I have seen, the warranty has has required the customer to return the caravan to the agreed repair workshop at the customer's expense.
For most warranty work that will be normally be as far as it needs to go, but if the caravan needs to go back to the manufacturer, the cost of that can in theory be passed to the customer under the terms of the manufacturers warranty. I am not claiming there have been examples of this but the wording I have seen does not preclude it, as it depends what is deemed to be the repairing workshop.
The CRA is different, it requires the seller to recover the faulty goods, and redeliver at no cost and as little inconvenience to the customer.
Every manufacturers warranty statement I have seen includes a phrase like, "this warranty does not affect your statutory rights" Which means regardless of how a manufacturers warranty claim turns out, you still have some recourse through the CRA.
However, keeping in mind the CRA and Manufacturers warranties are legally separate entities, The CRA only has effect between the customer and the seller/finance house, and no other parties. consequently if you have a repair carried out through the Manufacturer's Warranty by any other workshop without the sellers expressed permission, the seller could claim you have modified the caravan, and thus removed their rightful opportunity to investigate and make repairs. This could diminish your right to have a claim under the CRA.
It has been mentioned that some manufactures warranties place a limit on the cost of warranty repairs. Let me state now the CRA does not put a limit on such costs, but it may take into account the economic value of repairing or refunding.
But returning to limitations on warranty costs by manufacturers. The manufacturers Warranty despite the fact it is not advertised as such is a separate contract that new purchasers of caravans are invited to take up. It is a service contract, and even though no money is evidently charged for it, it is to all intents and purposes an insurance policy. By signing up to it you are accepting its terms and conditions. along with any limitations it may have in its T&C's. If a claim is made and rejected on the basis of a clause which is not printed in the Terms and Conditions (other than created by a change in the relevant laws) the manufacture would be in breach of its own T&C's
Specifically, if the policy does not say there is a limit to the value of the repairs to be carried out, they cannot impose a limit. If there is a limit in the T&C's and it is insufficient to repair a caravan with an admissible failure, The customer might be able to claim the policy is not fit for purpose, and seek rederss through the CRA.
I do not have a copy of the Lunar warranty, but of those I have seen, the warranty has has required the customer to return the caravan to the agreed repair workshop at the customer's expense.
For most warranty work that will be normally be as far as it needs to go, but if the caravan needs to go back to the manufacturer, the cost of that can in theory be passed to the customer under the terms of the manufacturers warranty. I am not claiming there have been examples of this but the wording I have seen does not preclude it, as it depends what is deemed to be the repairing workshop.
The CRA is different, it requires the seller to recover the faulty goods, and redeliver at no cost and as little inconvenience to the customer.
Every manufacturers warranty statement I have seen includes a phrase like, "this warranty does not affect your statutory rights" Which means regardless of how a manufacturers warranty claim turns out, you still have some recourse through the CRA.
However, keeping in mind the CRA and Manufacturers warranties are legally separate entities, The CRA only has effect between the customer and the seller/finance house, and no other parties. consequently if you have a repair carried out through the Manufacturer's Warranty by any other workshop without the sellers expressed permission, the seller could claim you have modified the caravan, and thus removed their rightful opportunity to investigate and make repairs. This could diminish your right to have a claim under the CRA.
It has been mentioned that some manufactures warranties place a limit on the cost of warranty repairs. Let me state now the CRA does not put a limit on such costs, but it may take into account the economic value of repairing or refunding.
But returning to limitations on warranty costs by manufacturers. The manufacturers Warranty despite the fact it is not advertised as such is a separate contract that new purchasers of caravans are invited to take up. It is a service contract, and even though no money is evidently charged for it, it is to all intents and purposes an insurance policy. By signing up to it you are accepting its terms and conditions. along with any limitations it may have in its T&C's. If a claim is made and rejected on the basis of a clause which is not printed in the Terms and Conditions (other than created by a change in the relevant laws) the manufacture would be in breach of its own T&C's
Specifically, if the policy does not say there is a limit to the value of the repairs to be carried out, they cannot impose a limit. If there is a limit in the T&C's and it is insufficient to repair a caravan with an admissible failure, The customer might be able to claim the policy is not fit for purpose, and seek rederss through the CRA.
I would add that although no fee is stated for the warranty, the manufacturer makes an allowance for this in the price of the caravan, and therefore it does have a value.
The sad thing is that if they built them properly in the first place they wouldn't have such huge warranty bills.
HomerS1 said:
There is evidently too much fat in the price for them to not care about warranty bills.
They don't build them, they throw them together and hope those awfully nice repeat buyers won't kick up a fuss as they have their holidays booked and won't want the bother of upsetting the dealer they've been buying from repeatedly.
As oft said, you get the service you deserve, as caravan buyers appear to have let the assemblers of poor quality common parts take the mickey for eons. Perhaps the new generation of adventurers will be more willing not to accept crap.
KeefySher said:HomerS1 said:
There is evidently too much fat in the price for them to not care about warranty bills.
They don't build them, they throw them together and hope those awfully nice repeat buyers won't kick up a fuss as they have their holidays booked and won't want the bother of upsetting the dealer they've been buying from repeatedly.
As oft said, you get the service you deserve, as caravan buyers appear to have let the assemblers of poor quality common parts take the mickey for eons. Perhaps the new generation of adventurers will be more willing not to accept crap.
I agree with the sentiment, but I wouldn't have used those words exactly!
Update. Caravan is going in to specialist repair centre tomorrow to have the floor checked. Managed the season by covering the floor with boards. While cleaning today I noticed another weak point between the front seats. I've been told that if not too bad may be fixed by injection but if worse will have to be returned to Lunar to have the floor cut out and strengthened. They also told me that they have had a spate of Lunars with floor problems, caused, they say, by lack of structural cross members. I have emailed Lunar to find out how our caravan will get to their factory should it be necessary.
Hello Homer,
I will hope that Lunar Agree to pick it up from you or perhaps from your dealer, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If Lunar are carrying out this work under their warranty, it will be under their terms and conditions, and generally manufacturers refuse to pay for collection and re delivery - you will have to wait and see.
However if the work is done under the older Sale of Goods Act, or its more recent Consumer Rights Act, it is the sellers responsibility to inconvenience the customer as little as possible, and that includes recovery and re delivery costs.
It MAY be possible to recover your expenses from the dealer, becasue if Lunar have accepted the fact the caravan is faulty, then it would be very hard for the seller to deny it was faulty, and as such they are technically responsible for having sold faulty goods which places them in breach of the consumer legislation. That is a correspondence you may wish to try, However You should seek informed guidance on that.
I will hope that Lunar Agree to pick it up from you or perhaps from your dealer, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If Lunar are carrying out this work under their warranty, it will be under their terms and conditions, and generally manufacturers refuse to pay for collection and re delivery - you will have to wait and see.
However if the work is done under the older Sale of Goods Act, or its more recent Consumer Rights Act, it is the sellers responsibility to inconvenience the customer as little as possible, and that includes recovery and re delivery costs.
It MAY be possible to recover your expenses from the dealer, becasue if Lunar have accepted the fact the caravan is faulty, then it would be very hard for the seller to deny it was faulty, and as such they are technically responsible for having sold faulty goods which places them in breach of the consumer legislation. That is a correspondence you may wish to try, However You should seek informed guidance on that.
Lunar replied immediately telling me to talk to my dealer. obviously not interested. just hope it's the injection option.
I've recently repaired the spongy floor of our Lunar Clubman. The problem was due to a lack of support under the top plywood sheet join which left an overhang of about 30cm from the nearest support so the only thing supporting the top ply sheet at that point was the internal foam insulation which had collapsed.
Very poor design/workmanship in my opinion.
I carried out a repair using resin injected from the top, this took about 3 hours over two visits and cost about £50 and that included the welding glue to repair the vinyl floor covering which I had to cost and lift to get at the plywood floor.
If I had the facility to lift the van safely then I would have made the repair from under the van, the cost would have been about the same.
Very poor design/workmanship in my opinion.
I carried out a repair using resin injected from the top, this took about 3 hours over two visits and cost about £50 and that included the welding glue to repair the vinyl floor covering which I had to cost and lift to get at the plywood floor.
If I had the facility to lift the van safely then I would have made the repair from under the van, the cost would have been about the same.
My 2015 dealer special Quasar is going back to Lunar in October. The floor failure now extends pretty much the length of the caravan. There are several other issus, cupboard doors de-laminating, decals blistering, shower (possibly) leaking, fridge vents not fitting properly and damp up to 60% in places. Don't know who is paying for collection and re-delivery!
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