need six seats and soon upgrading to twin axle van,approx 1700kgs. would like towcar to tow comfortably as we're new to towing, but also need it for day-day use ie school run/shops etc. would be towing only about six times a year so mpg isn't critical so is 4x4 a sensible option or is there a suitable mpv?. we have a budget of around 12k.
mpv or 4x4?
- Thread starter andrew_374241803
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Parksy
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- Nov 12, 2009
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Hi Andrew
I have never owned a mpv but I own a 4x4 now which I use for towing. THE 4X4 tows well enough,but on a note of caution most 4x4s are very thirsty beasts especially as you describe-school run/shops etc. on shorter trips you will be lucky to acheive 30mpg so have a really good look around and good luck
hope this helps
I have never owned a mpv but I own a 4x4 now which I use for towing. THE 4X4 tows well enough,but on a note of caution most 4x4s are very thirsty beasts especially as you describe-school run/shops etc. on shorter trips you will be lucky to acheive 30mpg so have a really good look around and good luck
hope this helps
Andrew,
Previously we have owned a shogun which was nice and spacious but the two drop down seats at the very back are ok when the children are small, once they reached 10/11 they felt their knees were up round their necks when sitting there. We then bought a Galaxy, which was also very spacious and excellent on fuel, also an adult could sit at the very back quiet comfortably. Galaxys/sharans/alahambra (all the same) make good tow cars
Previously we have owned a shogun which was nice and spacious but the two drop down seats at the very back are ok when the children are small, once they reached 10/11 they felt their knees were up round their necks when sitting there. We then bought a Galaxy, which was also very spacious and excellent on fuel, also an adult could sit at the very back quiet comfortably. Galaxys/sharans/alahambra (all the same) make good tow cars
Hi Andrew
We have a large twin axle and we tow it with a mec Vito sport lwb its a full six seater and has all the comforts of a luxury car and probably better road handling also it tows like a dream far by the best tow vehicle that i have ever had which was a shogun ,discovery tdi and a disco 3 series.
Economy i can not fault it and it want break the bank to tax ,i will never go back to a 4x4 .
Hi andrew
from a personal point of view and also being new to towing I opted for the 4x4 because I wanted a vehicle that was more than capable of doing the job.
You'll see alot of reference to the '85% rule' and that this car or that car is within scope of your chosen van.
Also its not just about the size of the vehicle its whether it has enough grunt (or torque) to get you going and keep you going.
A couple of years ago I had a new 2lt TD Ducato based motorhome. The MH was fairly small but the engine was awfull. On trips down to Cornwall I'd loose so much speed on some hills that caravans were passing me!!. Basically it was weak engine with next to no grunt.
My personal choice is an 05 Merc ML270 CDi with Auto box.
Recently picked up the new 'van from Exeter and it was a dream towing back (all 160 miles). Set the cruise control and it took everything in its stride and returned about 25mpg which aint bad!! Plus when I needed to accelerate it picked up very smartly and got me passed slower traffic with ease.
Not everyones cup of tea but suits me.
Might also be worth noting where you will park the caravan and car at home and make sure they'll fit. Another factor in my choice as I only have a certain amount of room to play with on the driveway. Had I gone for say the Volvo XC90 or even the Disco 3 I'd have been struggling yet they aren't a million miles different in size.
from a personal point of view and also being new to towing I opted for the 4x4 because I wanted a vehicle that was more than capable of doing the job.
You'll see alot of reference to the '85% rule' and that this car or that car is within scope of your chosen van.
Also its not just about the size of the vehicle its whether it has enough grunt (or torque) to get you going and keep you going.
A couple of years ago I had a new 2lt TD Ducato based motorhome. The MH was fairly small but the engine was awfull. On trips down to Cornwall I'd loose so much speed on some hills that caravans were passing me!!. Basically it was weak engine with next to no grunt.
My personal choice is an 05 Merc ML270 CDi with Auto box.
Recently picked up the new 'van from Exeter and it was a dream towing back (all 160 miles). Set the cruise control and it took everything in its stride and returned about 25mpg which aint bad!! Plus when I needed to accelerate it picked up very smartly and got me passed slower traffic with ease.
Not everyones cup of tea but suits me.
Might also be worth noting where you will park the caravan and car at home and make sure they'll fit. Another factor in my choice as I only have a certain amount of room to play with on the driveway. Had I gone for say the Volvo XC90 or even the Disco 3 I'd have been struggling yet they aren't a million miles different in size.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Andrew,
You have posed a quite tight set of conditions, a car budget of 12K for 6 seats and a caravan of MPTLM 1700Kg.
Unless you particularly need a 4x4 for other non-towing activities, then in my view an MPV will probably meet you needs best.
MPV's tend to give you the height of a 4x4 for visibility, the running costs closer to a saloon car (parts, servicing and fuel) probably more room inside than a 4x4, and certainly better rear seats and road handling.
Your budget is not likely to find you a new vehicle so you will be looking at the second hand market.
As for the weight ratio, 85% is only a guideline not a rule, so whilst it is a sensible target don't be too concerned if you cannot meet it. What is important is to check with the manufacture for the maximum permitted tow load, as not all MPV's can pull 1700.
As with all towing, be sensible, and if in doubt slow down.
Diesel is almost certainly your best bet, and look for a healthy Bhp figure. The VW/SEAT versions have range of power options. Don't dismiss the Renault Espace, especially the latest version that have a 3L diesel option, and a health gross train weight.
You have posed a quite tight set of conditions, a car budget of 12K for 6 seats and a caravan of MPTLM 1700Kg.
Unless you particularly need a 4x4 for other non-towing activities, then in my view an MPV will probably meet you needs best.
MPV's tend to give you the height of a 4x4 for visibility, the running costs closer to a saloon car (parts, servicing and fuel) probably more room inside than a 4x4, and certainly better rear seats and road handling.
Your budget is not likely to find you a new vehicle so you will be looking at the second hand market.
As for the weight ratio, 85% is only a guideline not a rule, so whilst it is a sensible target don't be too concerned if you cannot meet it. What is important is to check with the manufacture for the maximum permitted tow load, as not all MPV's can pull 1700.
As with all towing, be sensible, and if in doubt slow down.
Diesel is almost certainly your best bet, and look for a healthy Bhp figure. The VW/SEAT versions have range of power options. Don't dismiss the Renault Espace, especially the latest version that have a 3L diesel option, and a health gross train weight.
Hi,
As you are new to towing I would strongly recommend a towcar of not less than 2tonnes to drag a 1.7tonne van (85%)- that puts you firmly in the 4x4 camp.
For
As you are new to towing I would strongly recommend a towcar of not less than 2tonnes to drag a 1.7tonne van (85%)- that puts you firmly in the 4x4 camp.
For
I have to agree with everything David W said except one point. Twins are easier to reverse as they react slower.
As for the rest. With a 1700Kg van, you do need a 200kg vehicle and there are few if any MPV's that are that much weight.
However, if an MPV is a must then look at the Kia's as they have loads of room and you get a lot of vehicle on the second hand market
As for the rest. With a 1700Kg van, you do need a 200kg vehicle and there are few if any MPV's that are that much weight.
However, if an MPV is a must then look at the Kia's as they have loads of room and you get a lot of vehicle on the second hand market
My experience is that, weight for weight, MPV's are more stable when towing than 4x4's but they do not have the traction when the going gets difficult unless you can lay your hands on a Sharan 4motion, we tow a 1600 kg mtplm twin axle with a Ford s-max no problem but if you don't do that many miles per year dont worry too much about mpg
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello again Andrew,
As I wrote previously, don't jump straight to the conclusion that a 4x4 is the only answer. I cannot disagree that a 4x4 can offer greater traction, but under normal road conditions and the condition you find on most caravan sites, two wheel drive can be perfectly capable and safe.
The other issue regarding weight ratios isn't insignificant, but again I would venture to suggest that a large MPV set up properly can perform as well on the roads as any 4x4, with better handling and fuel economy.
I am not anti 4x4 but I don't see them as the caravanners answer for everything, and we do need to consider the environment and your pocket.
As I wrote previously, don't jump straight to the conclusion that a 4x4 is the only answer. I cannot disagree that a 4x4 can offer greater traction, but under normal road conditions and the condition you find on most caravan sites, two wheel drive can be perfectly capable and safe.
The other issue regarding weight ratios isn't insignificant, but again I would venture to suggest that a large MPV set up properly can perform as well on the roads as any 4x4, with better handling and fuel economy.
I am not anti 4x4 but I don't see them as the caravanners answer for everything, and we do need to consider the environment and your pocket.
I have been in the fortunate position to of used both 4X4 and Mpv for towing.
Personally I think John is right. A MPV would on the whole give a better balance of useability given that you are only going to be towing the van half a dozen times a year. The Shaorn, Galaxy Alphamera range are all capable of towing 1700 Kgs as is the Espace. All of which are very car like in size and turning circle (park ability). A 4X4 does have a much bigger turning circle and I often see people struggling to park them.
The Kia Sedona is a larger type MPV and while it has more internal space, a good value on the market place Ie you get a lot newer one of these for your 12K and it has sliding passenger rear doors. It is a pig to park as it is about 25% wider than your average MPV.
Although I'm a Renauly man myself, I have to say that the Alphamera 6 speed TDI realy did impress me with both drive ability and economy. With a 4X4 you are realy looking at 30mpg all the time, but I got 44Mpg out of our company Seat driving solo but not light footed.
I tow a 20ft twin axle van at 100% tow capacity with our 1998 Laguna 2Ltr estate and quite frankly I don't have any problems with a big van and 2 wheel drive. Most sites these days are well maintained and I just take care to reverse onto my pitch leaving the drive wheels on the roadway, or ensure I have a slight down hill advantage to pull off with.
My Laguna does well over 40Mpg solo ( have had 48Mpg on a good day) and still does high twenties going on thirty Mpg towing.
Having said all that it all down to your personal choice.
Steve L.
Personally I think John is right. A MPV would on the whole give a better balance of useability given that you are only going to be towing the van half a dozen times a year. The Shaorn, Galaxy Alphamera range are all capable of towing 1700 Kgs as is the Espace. All of which are very car like in size and turning circle (park ability). A 4X4 does have a much bigger turning circle and I often see people struggling to park them.
The Kia Sedona is a larger type MPV and while it has more internal space, a good value on the market place Ie you get a lot newer one of these for your 12K and it has sliding passenger rear doors. It is a pig to park as it is about 25% wider than your average MPV.
Although I'm a Renauly man myself, I have to say that the Alphamera 6 speed TDI realy did impress me with both drive ability and economy. With a 4X4 you are realy looking at 30mpg all the time, but I got 44Mpg out of our company Seat driving solo but not light footed.
I tow a 20ft twin axle van at 100% tow capacity with our 1998 Laguna 2Ltr estate and quite frankly I don't have any problems with a big van and 2 wheel drive. Most sites these days are well maintained and I just take care to reverse onto my pitch leaving the drive wheels on the roadway, or ensure I have a slight down hill advantage to pull off with.
My Laguna does well over 40Mpg solo ( have had 48Mpg on a good day) and still does high twenties going on thirty Mpg towing.
Having said all that it all down to your personal choice.
Steve L.
We tow a 1710kg TA with a Seat Alhambra and I can not fault it, if possible go for one of the Seat or VW variants with the lower harder suspension (I believe this is only available on the V6 Ford).
130+ bhp will be ample 115 might struggle a bit on hills.
A better and more stable tow car than our old Shogun 2.5TD LWB .
130+ bhp will be ample 115 might struggle a bit on hills.
A better and more stable tow car than our old Shogun 2.5TD LWB .
I should add we get around 50mpg plus solo and between 25-30mpg towing.
The Shogun did 25 solo/20 towing a smaller van, so although the differential is smaller with a larger engine the Seat is still significantly more economical even when towing.
The Shogun did 25 solo/20 towing a smaller van, so although the differential is smaller with a larger engine the Seat is still significantly more economical even when towing.
hi we have had a grand chrokee jeep 4.0L petrol and a vauxhall monterey 3.1td. they both drank the fuel and my money. we now have a ne kia sedona 07 plate 2.9 LS. i would have a mpv over a 4 x 4 anyday but thats just my opinion. they are cheaper to run and we feel they pull aswell as a 4 x 4. we are changing the van in sept oct to a twin axel and cant wait to tow it with the kia. we have towed our in laws fixed island conqueror and that was no problem.
good luck
jo-anne
good luck
jo-anne
i tow a 07 Swift Conqueror 1755kg. with a Galaxy 2.8v6.Just completed 2000miles to South of France and return through western france,outfit was faultless,estimate all up train weight was in excess of 3.5 tonnes with most of weight in the car ,including 4 meter Zodiac inflatable boat and timber floor+30 hp.outboard engine.Car was level at all times thanks to the sports suspension, fuel consumption solo average 31-35mpg max 70mph,towing motorway 21mpg at that weght,24mpg unladen. I would not want to tow with any less power.Average annual mileage 7000 so feul cost not paramount.george
Further to Garry's message above, I have the 115bhp Sharan pulling a Coachman Amara 5 berth, MIRO 1350kg, when loaded it is probably more like 1480kg.
I have no problems with this power, 130bhp would be nice, but it would probably mean I wheel spin more often on a greasy road surface when pulling away.
I have no problems with this power, 130bhp would be nice, but it would probably mean I wheel spin more often on a greasy road surface when pulling away.
Dadio
Ours was the 115 bhp and was OK with our 1710kg van (a fair bit heavier than yours) but I had a tuning device fitted which is supposed to take it to 130bhp with a lot more torque.
The difference is very noticeable and I would suggest 130bhp+ is better for a 1700kg+ van, although I know from experience the 115 will manage.
Torque figures are more important than outright bhp for a towcar anyway and I believe my Alhambra now generates more torque than the V6 and the 115PD is not that much short of the V6.
Ours was the 115 bhp and was OK with our 1710kg van (a fair bit heavier than yours) but I had a tuning device fitted which is supposed to take it to 130bhp with a lot more torque.
The difference is very noticeable and I would suggest 130bhp+ is better for a 1700kg+ van, although I know from experience the 115 will manage.
Torque figures are more important than outright bhp for a towcar anyway and I believe my Alhambra now generates more torque than the V6 and the 115PD is not that much short of the V6.
Have a look at the Kia Sodonas as I think they are up towards the 3000kg mark and as said before a lot of vehicle for the money and 7 seat and the rear two are removable. I use the Sorento but it only has 5 seats and as the company pay for day to day running I dont have to watch the fuel so much as others but they are not as bad as some people say, but thats another forum. The latest Sodonas have a very good build quality and were upgraded I think last year and should fit into to your budget.
Rob
Rob
You are nearly right Rob,all the rear seats are removeable.it can pull 2000kgs and I get 42mpg solo and 30+ towing aLunar Delta 640EW.It is also much cheaper by thousands than any other large mpv
Hi Allen,
When I was refering to the 3000kg I should of made in clear that was the kerb weight not the towing capacity. I did not know all the rear seats were removable, that makes one of a large floor area for wine and beer from France!!!
Rob
Most will know my thoughts on the subject as its been discussed so many times and i still stick by my opinion in that mpv's make far better tow cars than most 4x4's.
I have owned and towed with many many different makes and types of car and hand on heart i have never had a better tow car than my current alhambra, its a 130 tdi sx and at two years old is the oldest car i have ever owned, i usually get bored with my cars and swap them every year but this car has so much ability i can find nothing to replace it.
A 4x4 can be very worthwile on some sites but in ten years i have only ever got stuck twice so its hardly worth the extra fuel and poor handling for this rare occurance, my last disco was a nightmare with poor handling when the van was on the back so much so that my wife refused to drive it whilst towing, the shogun was thirsty and rusted away underneath and the toyota was just awfull on fuel and image (too big and clumsy).
with a 2000 kg tow limit you will find the alhambra and the sedona will pull allmost all the vans you can buy in the uk but obviousley you will be over 100 % of the kerbweight with some allthough still legal, i towed my old coachman laser at 1730 kgs with no problems at all.
I am not anti 4x4 in any way but i do firmly believe from experiance that they no longer make the best towcar, mpv's have taken over.
I have owned and towed with many many different makes and types of car and hand on heart i have never had a better tow car than my current alhambra, its a 130 tdi sx and at two years old is the oldest car i have ever owned, i usually get bored with my cars and swap them every year but this car has so much ability i can find nothing to replace it.
A 4x4 can be very worthwile on some sites but in ten years i have only ever got stuck twice so its hardly worth the extra fuel and poor handling for this rare occurance, my last disco was a nightmare with poor handling when the van was on the back so much so that my wife refused to drive it whilst towing, the shogun was thirsty and rusted away underneath and the toyota was just awfull on fuel and image (too big and clumsy).
with a 2000 kg tow limit you will find the alhambra and the sedona will pull allmost all the vans you can buy in the uk but obviousley you will be over 100 % of the kerbweight with some allthough still legal, i towed my old coachman laser at 1730 kgs with no problems at all.
I am not anti 4x4 in any way but i do firmly believe from experiance that they no longer make the best towcar, mpv's have taken over.
A friend of mine tows his twin axle van with an 06 zafira 1.9 cdti sri(150 hp and 315nm torque)
He really rates it as the sri is slightly firmer ride.
I however like my shogun 2.8 lwb for my old abbey lancaster,
then again i use the shogun for other things as well as in off roading
Horses for courses i suppose.
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