New Caravan Electrical Test - This could effect you !!!!!
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The pir is a report not a certificate,there is a difference.
The NCC/CITO competency level is aimed at caravan technicians not full time sparkies and is seen as the minimum qualification required.
it is also endorsed by the British Holiday & Home Park Association.
Now the bare facts are, that a caravan will have a certificate of compliance regardless of any issues of wiring spacing or whatever, which more than likely will be valid for 3 years,unless further wiring is done, in which case a report will be done on the new system.
After 3 years the van is required to have another pir done which will be valid for a period of not more than 3 years unless further wiring is done.
Dealers must supply a current pir with every van that is more than 3 years old. Do you agree Read Caravans?
Now the above is law whether we agree or not.
I,as an engineer, advise my customers accordingly and if they wish to sign the disclaimer then i have acted within the law(dangerous faults must still be fixed though).
over to you
The NCC/CITO competency level is aimed at caravan technicians not full time sparkies and is seen as the minimum qualification required.
it is also endorsed by the British Holiday & Home Park Association.
Now the bare facts are, that a caravan will have a certificate of compliance regardless of any issues of wiring spacing or whatever, which more than likely will be valid for 3 years,unless further wiring is done, in which case a report will be done on the new system.
After 3 years the van is required to have another pir done which will be valid for a period of not more than 3 years unless further wiring is done.
Dealers must supply a current pir with every van that is more than 3 years old. Do you agree Read Caravans?
Now the above is law whether we agree or not.
I,as an engineer, advise my customers accordingly and if they wish to sign the disclaimer then i have acted within the law(dangerous faults must still be fixed though).
over to you
Again a little bit of poetry about the regulations.
The dealers need to do a PIR in order to SELL a caravan or to do one if THEY do any work on a caravan.
There is NO law that requires a caravan OWNER to have any of them done.
Indeed an owner is also allowed to work on his/her own van DIY and not have a PIR done unless the work involves something as complex as adding additional circuits. The owner can replace sockets lights etc themselves.
Jim
The dealers need to do a PIR in order to SELL a caravan or to do one if THEY do any work on a caravan.
There is NO law that requires a caravan OWNER to have any of them done.
Indeed an owner is also allowed to work on his/her own van DIY and not have a PIR done unless the work involves something as complex as adding additional circuits. The owner can replace sockets lights etc themselves.
Jim
jim
the very word "regulations" or "act" mean it is law,refer to Damians post above, 2nd para.
dealers must supply a valid pir with every van they sell
the very word "regulations" or "act" mean it is law,refer to Damians post above, 2nd para.
dealers must supply a valid pir with every van they sell
didnt word that very well. Just read Damians post.It makes the requirements very clearjim
the very word "regulations" or "act" mean it is law,refer to Damians post above, 2nd para.
dealers must supply a valid pir with every van they sell
Hi Dougie,
Sorry but you are wrong, the 17th Edition Wiring Regulations (BS7671:2008) are NOT law. The EWR 1989 are law though, working to the regulations will mean that you do satisfy the EWR though.
Taken from the guidance notes for the regs:-
"BS 7671 and the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (EWR)
It is important to recognize that the wording of the EWR makes no mention of BS 7671. The HSE's Memorandum of Guidance (HSR 25) states that:
'BS7671 is a code of practice which is widely recognized and accepted in the UK and compliance with it is likely to achieve compliance with relevant aspects of the 1989 (EWR) Regulations.'"
Jim
Sorry but you are wrong, the 17th Edition Wiring Regulations (BS7671:2008) are NOT law. The EWR 1989 are law though, working to the regulations will mean that you do satisfy the EWR though.
Taken from the guidance notes for the regs:-
"BS 7671 and the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (EWR)
It is important to recognize that the wording of the EWR makes no mention of BS 7671. The HSE's Memorandum of Guidance (HSR 25) states that:
'BS7671 is a code of practice which is widely recognized and accepted in the UK and compliance with it is likely to achieve compliance with relevant aspects of the 1989 (EWR) Regulations.'"
Jim
Morning Jim
I have previously posted that the 17th is not law just a requirement.But having done a good few courses over the years the word regs or act mean law to me.
Damians post sums up the requirements for caravans loud and clear to me, and as a trained engineer i will do my best to fulfill them.
Joe public can do whatever he like to his van, but if i am called to fix any probs and i dont like what i see, and he doesnt accept my findings then we will be parting company.
My own experience is that customers poopoo the pir until i ask (as i am required to do)them to read and fill in the diclaimer then they go all indecisive and arent sure.
I feel the NCC needs to let the caravanning population know what the pir`s are all about, not through dealers but through magazines and cc/c&cc books
I have previously posted that the 17th is not law just a requirement.But having done a good few courses over the years the word regs or act mean law to me.
Damians post sums up the requirements for caravans loud and clear to me, and as a trained engineer i will do my best to fulfill them.
Joe public can do whatever he like to his van, but if i am called to fix any probs and i dont like what i see, and he doesnt accept my findings then we will be parting company.
My own experience is that customers poopoo the pir until i ask (as i am required to do)them to read and fill in the diclaimer then they go all indecisive and arent sure.
I feel the NCC needs to let the caravanning population know what the pir`s are all about, not through dealers but through magazines and cc/c&cc books
Hi Dougie,
don't get me wrong, I am not trying to rubbish the suggestions of having your caravan tested to make sure it is safe, at the end of the day dodgy wiring and damaged fixtures can cause death and destruction, not only to the owner of the van but also to the family that are sleeping in the van 3 metres away.
The problem I do have is the way that this idea is being put out scaremongering the public into believing they HAVE to have it done, when they don't.
Think about your household wiring. You may well live in an house which you bought 25~30 years ago, have you had any tests done on the electric since it was bought? most likely not. There is no need to. Until recently even when selling your house you didn't need any type of inspection or certification. On the other hand if you rent your house from a landlord or council there is a need now for them to have the wiring checked every 12 months or whenever a new tenant moves in.
Houses have a far more complex wiring system with many circuits and a supply of ~100A. In my house I have 36 sockets, cooker point, immersion heater, and fused spurs for alarm, fires and boiler, then 17 lighting fixtures, 3 bathrooms and a kitchen. After that there is a multitude of earth bonding.
Based on that and the fact that I have no need to get it tested again until I sell the house, how can the NCC warrant suggesting that caravanner's need their van, with only a handful of lights and sockets (which also hasn't been built in accordance with the segregation rules) be tested by somebody who no doubt in most cases not even be a qualified electrician, more likely an all round "technician" that has been on a three day course held by other caravan techies!
Any "official" work done on my house needs to be done by a real electrician, that has more than likely served a 4 year apprenticeship, studying at college for the equivalent of at least a full year full time, then having to do refresher courses to keep up with current regulations and statute, then he also has to have the work signed off by a qualified supervisor who again has a list of qualifications as long as his arm!
This afternoon I am going to read The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002(http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20022665.htm#24) to see why it is quoted in the info that Damian was supplied with, as on a quick look through it I cannot see how it relates in any way to a caravan.
@Damian,
who is it that supplied that info?
Jim
don't get me wrong, I am not trying to rubbish the suggestions of having your caravan tested to make sure it is safe, at the end of the day dodgy wiring and damaged fixtures can cause death and destruction, not only to the owner of the van but also to the family that are sleeping in the van 3 metres away.
The problem I do have is the way that this idea is being put out scaremongering the public into believing they HAVE to have it done, when they don't.
Think about your household wiring. You may well live in an house which you bought 25~30 years ago, have you had any tests done on the electric since it was bought? most likely not. There is no need to. Until recently even when selling your house you didn't need any type of inspection or certification. On the other hand if you rent your house from a landlord or council there is a need now for them to have the wiring checked every 12 months or whenever a new tenant moves in.
Houses have a far more complex wiring system with many circuits and a supply of ~100A. In my house I have 36 sockets, cooker point, immersion heater, and fused spurs for alarm, fires and boiler, then 17 lighting fixtures, 3 bathrooms and a kitchen. After that there is a multitude of earth bonding.
Based on that and the fact that I have no need to get it tested again until I sell the house, how can the NCC warrant suggesting that caravanner's need their van, with only a handful of lights and sockets (which also hasn't been built in accordance with the segregation rules) be tested by somebody who no doubt in most cases not even be a qualified electrician, more likely an all round "technician" that has been on a three day course held by other caravan techies!
Any "official" work done on my house needs to be done by a real electrician, that has more than likely served a 4 year apprenticeship, studying at college for the equivalent of at least a full year full time, then having to do refresher courses to keep up with current regulations and statute, then he also has to have the work signed off by a qualified supervisor who again has a list of qualifications as long as his arm!
This afternoon I am going to read The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002(http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20022665.htm#24) to see why it is quoted in the info that Damian was supplied with, as on a quick look through it I cannot see how it relates in any way to a caravan.
@Damian,
who is it that supplied that info?
Jim
Jims post is spot on and full of common sense.This smacks of the Milenco mirror post and until the CC or C&CC turn me away I wont be paying for a report.
Well, I've spent a good few hours reading The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002 and the various amendments to it, I cannot find any references whatsoever to PIRs or indeed anything about what is or is not allowed to be connected to a consumers installation.
The ESQCR 2002 are aimed at the suppliers (the suppliers are the electric supply companies EON Npower etc and their agents) not the consumers. The only point at which it involves the consumer is that on new installations and reconnection's the supplier can refuse to make the connection if they have reason to believe that the consumers installation is unsafe in such a way that there are serious dangers involved, at this point the supplier needs to give reasons in writing and what remedies are available, they must allow the consumer enough time to put these right. Now the consumers installation does not cover things that are plugged into it, ie caravans, the consumers installation is the hard wired installation.
So therefore I cannot see any relevance of the The Approved Workshop Scheme quoting ESQCR as relevant statute.
Now it is hardly surprising that it is the NCC that put together the Approved Workshop Scheme and they are both singing from the same misinformed hymn sheet.
Jim
The ESQCR 2002 are aimed at the suppliers (the suppliers are the electric supply companies EON Npower etc and their agents) not the consumers. The only point at which it involves the consumer is that on new installations and reconnection's the supplier can refuse to make the connection if they have reason to believe that the consumers installation is unsafe in such a way that there are serious dangers involved, at this point the supplier needs to give reasons in writing and what remedies are available, they must allow the consumer enough time to put these right. Now the consumers installation does not cover things that are plugged into it, ie caravans, the consumers installation is the hard wired installation.
So therefore I cannot see any relevance of the The Approved Workshop Scheme quoting ESQCR as relevant statute.
Now it is hardly surprising that it is the NCC that put together the Approved Workshop Scheme and they are both singing from the same misinformed hymn sheet.
Jim
Evenin all
I am working towards Approved Workshop status and the pir thing is one of the requirements and i dont deny it (pir) will be seen by many as a money earner for engineers etc.
As far as houses go i used to rent out a flat but sold in the end due to landlord obligations.
Now speaking as a caravanner i would like some assurance that when i am onsite the van 3 metres away isnt going to cause a danger to mine and vice versa. A service record or pir will not be 100% guarantee but would provide some assurance that the van as at least been looked at. I am also of the opinion that all vans must be insured when onsite.
I bet when dealers get in on the act your trade-in price will plummet if there is no pir cos the dealer will have to do one before resale.
Now here`s food for thought. A friend of mine who does well out of state employment told me this very afternoon that the upsurge in caravan popularity hasnt gone un-noticed by uk gov plc. And being a bit skint is looking at implementing euro style registration etc and using the CHRIS database as a starting point for enforcement. I havent read anything myself on this but nothing would surprise me with my almost next door neighour who will deny it today then announce it tomorrow.
I am working towards Approved Workshop status and the pir thing is one of the requirements and i dont deny it (pir) will be seen by many as a money earner for engineers etc.
As far as houses go i used to rent out a flat but sold in the end due to landlord obligations.
Now speaking as a caravanner i would like some assurance that when i am onsite the van 3 metres away isnt going to cause a danger to mine and vice versa. A service record or pir will not be 100% guarantee but would provide some assurance that the van as at least been looked at. I am also of the opinion that all vans must be insured when onsite.
I bet when dealers get in on the act your trade-in price will plummet if there is no pir cos the dealer will have to do one before resale.
Now here`s food for thought. A friend of mine who does well out of state employment told me this very afternoon that the upsurge in caravan popularity hasnt gone un-noticed by uk gov plc. And being a bit skint is looking at implementing euro style registration etc and using the CHRIS database as a starting point for enforcement. I havent read anything myself on this but nothing would surprise me with my almost next door neighour who will deny it today then announce it tomorrow.
jimWell, I've spent a good few hours reading The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002 and the various amendments to it, I cannot find any references whatsoever to PIRs or indeed anything about what is or is not allowed to be connected to a consumers installation.
The ESQCR 2002 are aimed at the suppliers (the suppliers are the electric supply companies EON Npower etc and their agents) not the consumers. The only point at which it involves the consumer is that on new installations and reconnection's the supplier can refuse to make the connection if they have reason to believe that the consumers installation is unsafe in such a way that there are serious dangers involved, at this point the supplier needs to give reasons in writing and what remedies are available, they must allow the consumer enough time to put these right. Now the consumers installation does not cover things that are plugged into it, ie caravans, the consumers installation is the hard wired installation.
So therefore I cannot see any relevance of the The Approved Workshop Scheme quoting ESQCR as relevant statute.
Now it is hardly surprising that it is the NCC that put together the Approved Workshop Scheme and they are both singing from the same misinformed hymn sheet.
Jim
we have overlapped here cos your post wasnt here last time i looked.
I assume your background is electrical and at a high level. Would you be prepared to contact the NCC and enquire why they are implementing stuff that doesnt have anything directly to do with caravans? I for one would like to know if i have wasted a lot of time and money.
Hi
I know this started with an enquiry into P.I.R. testing for caravans but i have to agree with where Dougie's led onto.
I'm quite surprised really with the governments track record in taxes that it hasn't latched onto caravanning.
It's absolutely brilliant being able to hitch your van up when you want to and go off whither you wish.
The problem is with the financial mire the present governments in, I'll be very surprised if they don't start new hair brained ways of gathering tax and caravans could easily be in their sights.
Tomo
I know this started with an enquiry into P.I.R. testing for caravans but i have to agree with where Dougie's led onto.
I'm quite surprised really with the governments track record in taxes that it hasn't latched onto caravanning.
It's absolutely brilliant being able to hitch your van up when you want to and go off whither you wish.
The problem is with the financial mire the present governments in, I'll be very surprised if they don't start new hair brained ways of gathering tax and caravans could easily be in their sights.
Tomo
Hi Dougie,
the problem with companies that want to get people to get them to join schemes or have work done by them is that they can be rather creative with the way that they word things.
What they tend to do is plant a seed, which will be true, ie "the caravan park owner can refuse you entry if .....", well they can refuse you entry for any reason they wish to make, you are a guest and it's not a public site. Once they have got you hooked on that, they will then tell you about a service that they offer to get past that hurdle.
As in an example earlier, a company could say that caravan sites can refuse admission to caravanner's with blue doors, but for a small fee they will paint your door ivory to allow you entry.
It isn't something exclusive to the caravan retailers, it is all around us.
Last year new regulations came into force to stop this, The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. However it can take a long time and be expensive for a member of the public to take action.
It would be interesting for somebody to ask the NCC as to what part of ESQCR they believe is relevant though.
Do the NCC have anything to do with the CC, C&CC or other caravan sites, as in are the sites normally members of the NCC?
Jim
the problem with companies that want to get people to get them to join schemes or have work done by them is that they can be rather creative with the way that they word things.
What they tend to do is plant a seed, which will be true, ie "the caravan park owner can refuse you entry if .....", well they can refuse you entry for any reason they wish to make, you are a guest and it's not a public site. Once they have got you hooked on that, they will then tell you about a service that they offer to get past that hurdle.
As in an example earlier, a company could say that caravan sites can refuse admission to caravanner's with blue doors, but for a small fee they will paint your door ivory to allow you entry.
It isn't something exclusive to the caravan retailers, it is all around us.
Last year new regulations came into force to stop this, The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. However it can take a long time and be expensive for a member of the public to take action.
It would be interesting for somebody to ask the NCC as to what part of ESQCR they believe is relevant though.
Do the NCC have anything to do with the CC, C&CC or other caravan sites, as in are the sites normally members of the NCC?
Jim
I totally agree with Tomo and Dougie about the way the government tend to see places where they can create a bit of revenue, then introduce a "tax" for it.
The government are also not unknown for misleading the public.
Just think about parking tickets etc, they are normally issued by either the police, the councils or their agents (so technically local government), now an awful lot of tickets are issued that shouldn't be, I'm sure most of you will have seen news items where for instance in London the councils where using the CCTV system to spot motorists in bus lanes etc and sending tickets out to them, when the CCTV cameras are not licensed to gather such information. Also the number of parking ticket that are issued when either the yellow lines are not as prescribed (either broken/worn out or not terminated correctly), appeal to the council/police and they will say the ticket needs to be paid, yet take it to a tribunal such as PTAS and over 70% of tickets are overturned.
I, like most people in todays economic climate, am adverse to giving money away that I don't need to, I would much rather it be in my wallet so I can buy more food (although looking at me I could do with a little less food), so I will always look into things when people try to take my hard earned cash away.
Back to Dougie's comment :-
"My own experience is that customers poopoo the pir until i ask (as i am required to do)them to read and fill in the diclaimer then they go all indecisive and arent sure."
I find that when you question somebody to provide the proof of why you have to do something, they normal also go shy LOL.
Take this thread for example, apart from the "NCC said...." comments, there has been nothing that backs up any of the claims as to why Joe Public needs a PIR.
Jim
The government are also not unknown for misleading the public.
Just think about parking tickets etc, they are normally issued by either the police, the councils or their agents (so technically local government), now an awful lot of tickets are issued that shouldn't be, I'm sure most of you will have seen news items where for instance in London the councils where using the CCTV system to spot motorists in bus lanes etc and sending tickets out to them, when the CCTV cameras are not licensed to gather such information. Also the number of parking ticket that are issued when either the yellow lines are not as prescribed (either broken/worn out or not terminated correctly), appeal to the council/police and they will say the ticket needs to be paid, yet take it to a tribunal such as PTAS and over 70% of tickets are overturned.
I, like most people in todays economic climate, am adverse to giving money away that I don't need to, I would much rather it be in my wallet so I can buy more food (although looking at me I could do with a little less food), so I will always look into things when people try to take my hard earned cash away.
Back to Dougie's comment :-
"My own experience is that customers poopoo the pir until i ask (as i am required to do)them to read and fill in the diclaimer then they go all indecisive and arent sure."
I find that when you question somebody to provide the proof of why you have to do something, they normal also go shy LOL.
Take this thread for example, apart from the "NCC said...." comments, there has been nothing that backs up any of the claims as to why Joe Public needs a PIR.
Jim
i have been told by NCC and CITO that public information on the PIR will be published later in the year. the reason for the delay is to make sure a large percentage of dealers, repairers and sites have completed their training courses first. otherwise you would have customers ringing dealers for something they either dont know or have not completed their training. it will be appearing in all the magazines CC, C&CC, practical etc and on their websites.
Afternoon y`all
Ive run out of steam with this now and we probably havent answered the OP`s question. It certainly has raised some points that will be up for further discussion when/if the NCC release the info.
see you in the next discussion
dougie
Ive run out of steam with this now and we probably havent answered the OP`s question. It certainly has raised some points that will be up for further discussion when/if the NCC release the info.
see you in the next discussion
dougie
Jim your comparisons between a house electrical installation and a caravan installation are quite interesting. While a house installation should be inspected every 10 years a caravan should be inspected every 3 years there is no law to require it. I believe that the caravan installation inspection is not unreasonable as the caravan is subject to stresses and physical shocks while it is towed to and from sites that a fixed house installation is not. How many people actually know that the earthing in their electrical installations is as good as day it was installed and the RCD's will function within specification when required.
I agree that CITO and the NCC are trying to rush this in with a very poor training course containing alot of misinformation and missing information, to get a caravan engineer from zero to competent person in 2 days is impossible (it takes longer for a qualified electrician to pass an inspecton and testing course and exam), I have seen the course documentation and as a qualified electrician it does not impress me
The only way I can see the PIR being law would be that the caravan site owner would have a duty to comply with the Electricity At Work Act to protect employees (wardens etc) and therefore all caravans connected to the electricity supply would be required to have a valid PIR
With regard to the costs Jim mentions I find it interesting that he values his caravan test by a competent person at
I agree that CITO and the NCC are trying to rush this in with a very poor training course containing alot of misinformation and missing information, to get a caravan engineer from zero to competent person in 2 days is impossible (it takes longer for a qualified electrician to pass an inspecton and testing course and exam), I have seen the course documentation and as a qualified electrician it does not impress me
The only way I can see the PIR being law would be that the caravan site owner would have a duty to comply with the Electricity At Work Act to protect employees (wardens etc) and therefore all caravans connected to the electricity supply would be required to have a valid PIR
With regard to the costs Jim mentions I find it interesting that he values his caravan test by a competent person at
Hi George,
The safety of park wardens shouldn't really come into it, the reason behind my thinking is that the exterior of the van doesn't require earthing (I believe) so even under fault conditions the van can't go "live" so no danger to people outside the van. Also remember that the parks RCD should be tested in order to meet various regulations.
I know some people use their vans for touring Europe for 6 months a year and are then out in it every weekend for the remaining 6 months. The most common use of the caravan though will be for 1 or 2 two week holidays and a weekend each month from March to October, that equates to about 44 days, some people will use it even less. The actual towing of the caravan is also minimum in these cases as unlike the Europe tour you tend to just go from A to B and then back again.
On the other hand a house is subject to abuse more than 300 days a year.
I know looking at the figures it looks like a caravan engineer would be on more per hour than a qualified and time served spark, what you need to look at though is there are fixed costs that need to be considered, for example both people will need to sit down and do a certain amount of paperwork etc, and both will normally factor in a fee for just turning up.
I don't think that it is too unreasonable to think a proper electrician would charge
The safety of park wardens shouldn't really come into it, the reason behind my thinking is that the exterior of the van doesn't require earthing (I believe) so even under fault conditions the van can't go "live" so no danger to people outside the van. Also remember that the parks RCD should be tested in order to meet various regulations.
I know some people use their vans for touring Europe for 6 months a year and are then out in it every weekend for the remaining 6 months. The most common use of the caravan though will be for 1 or 2 two week holidays and a weekend each month from March to October, that equates to about 44 days, some people will use it even less. The actual towing of the caravan is also minimum in these cases as unlike the Europe tour you tend to just go from A to B and then back again.
On the other hand a house is subject to abuse more than 300 days a year.
I know looking at the figures it looks like a caravan engineer would be on more per hour than a qualified and time served spark, what you need to look at though is there are fixed costs that need to be considered, for example both people will need to sit down and do a certain amount of paperwork etc, and both will normally factor in a fee for just turning up.
I don't think that it is too unreasonable to think a proper electrician would charge
Jim Why should the caravan RCD and installation be excluded from meeting the regulations when the caravan parks RCD must
That is like saying the electricity boards fuse will blow if there is a fault in my house so I don't need to check the wiring, consumer unit and RCD
Having been involved in Domestic and commercial inspection and testing and industial PPM work for more years than I care to remember it is quite normal to find insecure connections that need tightening even in regularly inspected installations. I have lost count of the number of burnt out consumer units and main switches I have changed because of loose connections.
There is not only the inconvience it causes when it happens but the replacement cost is normally high as it tends to happen out of hours
With the amount of unseen costs associated with electrical work (test equipment calibration, external assessments etc)
That is like saying the electricity boards fuse will blow if there is a fault in my house so I don't need to check the wiring, consumer unit and RCD
Having been involved in Domestic and commercial inspection and testing and industial PPM work for more years than I care to remember it is quite normal to find insecure connections that need tightening even in regularly inspected installations. I have lost count of the number of burnt out consumer units and main switches I have changed because of loose connections.
There is not only the inconvience it causes when it happens but the replacement cost is normally high as it tends to happen out of hours
With the amount of unseen costs associated with electrical work (test equipment calibration, external assessments etc)
I'm not suggesting they should be excluded from inspection and testing, at the moment they are not required by law to be done though, whereas the park installation is.
I have said in previous posts that I do agree they should be tested, the main point is that the NCC are insinuating they MUST be when that is in fact wrong.
I have also seen work done by qualified time served electricians that to be honest should be condemned, as I have seen work by DIYers that is absolutely top notch.
As for the prices that an electrician charges for doing a PIR like I said they could easily double it and it would still be value for money. I didn't make the figures up, they are what I have found on the net, that real electricians charge real consumers.
A majority of electricians are self employed or small family firms that charge what economics dictate, if they quote
I have said in previous posts that I do agree they should be tested, the main point is that the NCC are insinuating they MUST be when that is in fact wrong.
I have also seen work done by qualified time served electricians that to be honest should be condemned, as I have seen work by DIYers that is absolutely top notch.
As for the prices that an electrician charges for doing a PIR like I said they could easily double it and it would still be value for money. I didn't make the figures up, they are what I have found on the net, that real electricians charge real consumers.
A majority of electricians are self employed or small family firms that charge what economics dictate, if they quote
I'm not sure that it is law that a caravan park should have a PIR. I know licenced premises (pubs, clubs, petrol stations) require a PIR to obtain / renew a licence but that is part of the licencing conditions and not a requirement in law to my knowledge, and I think caravan parks come into this category but there are some exemptions for CC sites
I agree the NCC / CITO have taken a rather agressive stance which is backed by a poor competent persons course of which questions are being asked
I agree the NCC / CITO have taken a rather agressive stance which is backed by a poor competent persons course of which questions are being asked
G`day
I dont know either if it is law for a site to have a pir, but i do some work at a site where i discussed this topic with the owner and he says its to be done as part of the operators licence annually.
As far as pir time/cost goes, I would reckon on 3-4 hrs as you have to find the wiring first,then unplug fixed appliances or disconnect if they are hard wired eg Carver water heaters, if switches have an led, that is disconnected. Dig about in top lockers for light wiring,disconnect light fittings, same in bed lockers,crawl underneath to look at bonding,hunt for external sockets in lockers. so having turned the van inside out you then do the tests which may take 3/4-1 hr. Then assuming no faults you have to put the van back as you found it and write the report.
I have always done it when servicing as the van is in bits anyway thus killing two birds etc.
I would expect a charge of
I dont know either if it is law for a site to have a pir, but i do some work at a site where i discussed this topic with the owner and he says its to be done as part of the operators licence annually.
As far as pir time/cost goes, I would reckon on 3-4 hrs as you have to find the wiring first,then unplug fixed appliances or disconnect if they are hard wired eg Carver water heaters, if switches have an led, that is disconnected. Dig about in top lockers for light wiring,disconnect light fittings, same in bed lockers,crawl underneath to look at bonding,hunt for external sockets in lockers. so having turned the van inside out you then do the tests which may take 3/4-1 hr. Then assuming no faults you have to put the van back as you found it and write the report.
I have always done it when servicing as the van is in bits anyway thus killing two birds etc.
I would expect a charge of
As a qualified electrician with 30+ years experience in 2006 I took a City & Guilds 2391 course on Inspection and Testing. This required 30 hours study a 4.5hr practical exam and a 2.5 hour closed book written exam. So I do not see how CITO / NCC can produce a course lasting 2 days (I would guess about 16hrs total) to cover all the aspects of inspection and testing for non electrically qualified caravan engineers, then give them a certificate of competentance.
Dougie you say you learnt all you needed to know! , How do you know ?.
Dougie you say you learnt all you needed to know! , How do you know ?.
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