NEW EHU BOLLARDS.

[Sam Vimes]

You can all come to your own conclusions about the practice.

However on a personal note at home I use a 50m extension block in the garden. For whatever reason I always plug it into a live socket and switch it on before unrolling it to where ever I need it. Also the shorter extension blocks - the typical 4 way blocks - I always plug into a live socket first. Then again I'm aware of the implications.

 

[Slowtow]

I don't agree it's dangerous, clearly the new bollards add further protection, but it shouldn't detract the caravaner from maintaining good practice in how EHU leads are used and maintained.
An analogy would be like driving with less care and attention just because an airbag is fitted!
We also have to be realistic about how sites are updated, like just about all infrastructure, upgrades are phased in for reasons of practicality, minimal user disruption , affordability etc.

I'm a gold card sparks that works with intake and distribution upto 11kv. If a 230v live cable is left on wet grass it is potentially dangerous.

Does anyone know of any documented incidents of someone getting an electric shock in the circumstances being discussed?

Occured on building sites which is why they can only use 110v. Survivable.
Anyone that says a live 230v cable laying on wet grass is no big deal needs to have more respect for electricity. Its a bit like at our target shooting club where I am a range officer, the amount of times I've heard "its alright mate the safety catch is on" which is when I go red in the face and start shouting naughty words😁

 

[Slowtow]

You can all come to your own conclusions about the practice.

However on a personal note at home I use a 50m extension block in the garden. For whatever reason I always plug it into a live socket and switch it on before unrolling it to where ever I need it. Also the shorter extension blocks - the typical 4 way blocks - I always plug into a live socket first. Then again I'm aware of the implications.

Sam, I need to get you on an ECS course pronto!! Lol!

 

[Sam Vimes]

No thanks. I've felt what volts are like, of varying amounts, and feel I can still recognise them when in contact.

 

[Ukdave2002]

I'm a gold card sparks that works with intake and distribution upto 11kv. If a 230v live cable is left on wet grass it is potentially dangerous.

Occured on building sites which is why they can only use 110v. Survivable.
Anyone that says a live 230v cable laying on wet grass is no big deal needs to have more respect for electricity. Its a bit like at our target shooting club where I am a range officer, the amount of times I've heard "its alright mate the safety catch is on" which is when I go red in the face and start shouting naughty words😁

For clarity, my quote "I don't believe its dangerous" referred to how the site was operated, not the the poor practice of some individuals!!

 

[rich0805]

I'm a gold card sparks that works with intake and distribution upto 11kv. If a 230v live cable is left on wet grass it is potentially dangerous.

Occured on building sites which is why they can only use 110v. Survivable.
Anyone that says a live 230v cable laying on wet grass is no big deal needs to have more respect for electricity. Its a bit like at our target shooting club where I am a range officer, the amount of times I've heard "its alright mate the safety catch is on" which is when I go red in the face and start shouting naughty words😁

I asked about it happening to caravanners, not builders.

 

[Dustydog]

According to various scripts RCDs are 96% reliable.
Only a fool would dance with death with a 4 in 100 chance of death🙉

 

[GUMPY]

RCDs are there as a last ditch safety measure.

Better not to rely on them as the first line of defence.

 

[otherclive]

When I had charge of a safety division, our assessment studies to produce safety cases for warships used the ALARP principle. This came out of the Piper Alpha disaster. ALARP means “As Low As Reasonably Practicable”. That meant reducing the risk until a cost benefit analysis showed no further gain in safety without disproportionate expenditure. The first approach was to see if the hazard could be removed all together. If it could “job done”, but in most cases life wasn’t that simple.

But wrt to EHU cables left connected and open ended it’s very simple don’t do it. Disconnect at the EHU and apart from a trip hazard the problem, irrespective of whether it is a real problem, goes away.

 

[Ukdave2002]

When I had charge of a safety division, our assessment studies to produce safety cases for warships used the ALARP principle. This came out of the Piper Alpha disaster. ALARP means “As Low As Reasonably Practicable”. That meant reducing the risk until a cost benefit analysis showed no further gain in safety without disproportionate expenditure. The first approach was to see if the hazard could be removed all together. If it could “job done”, but in most cases life wasn’t that simple.

Which is why if you use one of these adapters at home:
Spend another £10 on an earth rod and cable, and ensure your van has a local earth, these things should come with a warning but they don't!

If you are interested in the technicalities, ask any electrician or watch this 10 min video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRHyqouJPzE


Whilst the risk is low, a £10 fix / insurance IMHO makes it worthwhile.

 

[Dustydog]

Dave , this is scary serious stuff.
How can this situation be possible in 2025?

We had loads of rewiring and a new Consumer Unit two years ago. Nothing wrong with the old CU but the latest ICE regs said we needed a metal cased CU with more individual connections.
Does the break in the N wire have to be from the external socket via my adaptor and EHU cable? The thought of being electrocuted have the caravan at home is shocking(sic).

Is it being suggested that the mains adaptor is dangerous and shouldn’t be used??
Surely they wouldn’t be allowed to be sold if it was so dangerous?
One confused dog here🙉

 

[Ukdave2002]

Dave , this is scary serious stuff.
How can this situation be possible in 2025?

We had loads of rewiring and a new Consumer Unit two years ago. Nothing wrong with the old CU but the latest ICE regs said we needed a metal cased CU with more individual connections.
Does the break in the N wire have to be from the external socket via my adaptor and EHU cable? The thought of being electrocuted have the caravan at home is shocking(sic).

Is it being suggested that the mains adaptor is dangerous and shouldn’t be used??
Surely they wouldn’t be allowed to be sold if it was so dangerous?
One confused dog here🙉

How come it's possible in 2025? ; basically because the wiring regulations relating to earthing are different for a caravan site to a domestic property, if they are followed everything is safe, however plugging a van in to domestic mains is introducing parts of the regs that are not required for a house.

To explain; there are different ways of providing an earth to domestic property, but by far the common especially in new buildings is TN-C-S: which stands for "Terre Neutre-Combiné-Séparé" (Earth, Neutral-Combined, Separate), In this system, the neutral and earth conductors are combined (TN-C) in the supply network but then separated (CS) into individual neutral and earth conductors at your house. The danger occurs as explained in the video, when there is a fault between the earth and neutral outside of your property .

When a caravan or motorhome is plugged into house mains with TN-C-S earthing, it' s not adhering to the UK Electrical regulations, but most folk (as one would expect!) wont understand what the regs are let alone what earthing system their property has!

The adapters themselves are perfectly safe in the correct situation, but that won't be with a high proportion of UK houses. Getting some sense of reality, the frequency when this sort of fault occurs is rare, but considered a high enough risk that caravan and camping sites are forbidden from providing mains with TN-C-S earthing.

 

[Dustydog]

How do I find out if we have a safe earthing system?

 

[GUMPY]

I'll just throw this one in as regards TN-C-S and an earth stake.
This was a while ago when most houses didn't have RCDs our row of 4 terraced cottages with overhead cables had a failure of the Neutral between the transformer and the cottages. One house had an earth stake for his radio gear. Surprisingly the power stayed on for the houses until it came to dinner time when the earth stake took the full load from the cottages and cables started to melt.
The return path rather than being the neutral conductor, which had parted, was through the ground to the E><N bonding point on the transformer.
Luckily no equipment was destroyed but it resulted in the radio room having a completely separate grounding system with no connection to the earth in the house.

There are still quite a few properties with TN-C-S that are still not fitted with RCDs

 

[Buckman]

When we were installing TV aerials back in the mid seventies, it was compulsory for an earth spike to be used and for very good reason.

 

[IanB1485]

We had loads of rewiring and a new Consumer Unit two years ago. Nothing wrong with the old CU but the latest ICE regs said we needed a metal cased CU with more individual connections.
Does the break in the N wire have to be from the external socket via my adaptor and EHU cable? The thought of being electrocuted have the caravan at home is shocking(sic).

The regulations changed after the IEE /British standards institute test house (Electrical research association) tested some imported ( from out friends in the far east) Consumer units , which when plastic have to be made of self extinguishing plastic. There had been some cases in the field which had failed and caught fire . When testing the imported units they found they were made of the incorrect plastic.This was reported in 'Wiring matters' a publication which was sent members of the IEE. The regulations were changed to metal only consumer units enclosures to prevent further instances. Installations that were done at the time of older versions of the regulations don't need to comply with the the current regulations unless major works are undertaken ( rewiring) , but why wouldn't you . Fitting a modern consumer unit with an RCD is a step forward in safety.
@Dustydog contact your electrical supplier and request an inspection( declaring a suspected fault with the supply as inspected by electrician usually gets their attention)

 

[otherclive]

The regulations changed after the IEE /British standards institute test house (Electrical research association) tested some imported ( from out friends in the far east) Consumer units , which when plastic have to be made of self extinguishing plastic. There had been some cases in the field which had failed and caught fire . When testing the imported units they found they were made of the incorrect plastic.This was reported in 'Wiring matters' a publication which was sent members of the IEE. The regulations were changed to metal only consumer units enclosures to prevent further instances. Installations that were done at the time of older versions of the regulations don't need to comply with the the current regulations unless major works are undertaken ( rewiring) , but why wouldn't you . Fitting a modern consumer unit with an RCD is a step forward in safety.
@Dustydog contact your electrical supplier and request an inspection( declaring a suspected fault with the supply as inspected by electrician usually gets their attention)

When we had a new kitchen in our house, and our daughters house, the installer fitted new metal clad consumer units, even though both houses have 6 yearly electrical safety inspections.