nose weight

[Dustydog]

Since we last done this topic to death I have experimented.
For donkeys years I used the bathroom scales Heath Robinson style but never progressed to Sproket's or Gagkev's engineering masterpieces.
It worked no problem.
Then came the coilspring Milenco. That seemed ok as we always pack the van the same.However many spurious readings were obtained dependent on being level. The pressure from my little finger could cause a 30 kg variance. It's long been binned.
The TA Reich which fits between the towbar and hitch does give me good accurate readings when tested against the bathroom scales. I can assure you all using the EU parameters different readings are obtained from low to high.
Rarely on these debates do we think about the tow ball towbar manufacturer limits on the nose weight as indeed do the two main caravan hitch chassis manufacturers limits.
There is also a factor which I think should be allowed for and that's suspension sag . ie the point about which all your towing will be done.
I'm lucky to have self levelling suspension. With the caravan hitched it is level but using the Reich we are nose up a few mms. Here is where a call to Reich tell me their gauge takes this into account and gives an accurate reading .
Compared to the bathroom scales the variance is less than 5kgs.
Sadly the forumites on here are the minority. It's those once a year holidayers who don't bother.

 

[crazyguider]

we t weight the van! we just are very careful about what we take.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

and so it continues, :woohoo: towing fact, I have towed the same caravan with 4 different vehicles.
using 4 different maximum nose weights, each time working approximately 5kg under on a 100kg [15st.10lb] A frame hitch.
90kg. 80kg 70kg and 50kg, which range from [14st.2lb] to [7st.1lb,] the difference in in towing ability of the van was negligible at any weight, therefore there is no need to load the nose weight to the maximum of the car, I would go as far as saying the lowest weight towed best, so why do you need to ramp up the weight to maximum stay well below the limit then it doesn't matter which method is used AND you will never be overloaded on the nose weight.

all this male bovine manure about directives on hitch height can be just about ignored All Trailers/Caravans will be in the right range, and so will all type approved tow bars fitted to cars, the calculations will have been done by the manufacturer. set the nose weight 20kg under the recommendations and go enjoy your holidays.

 

[Hutch]

Colin fully agree, you know when your towing if the outfit feels correct, ,even if its below the max tow hitch limit. Stop , move something around inside, and away you go again.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Colin fully agree, you know when your towing if the outfit feels correct, ,even if its below the max tow hitch limit. Stop , move something around inside, and away you go again.

Hutch ,
You have lost me here. If the outfit feels right why do you stop and move something about?

Colin

That is a very pragmatic approach and I agree with you on several points, but sadly from the responses we do see on this and other forums, where 'more is better' advice is given it needs to be challenged to make sure that new readers are aware of the dangers and the correct and safe methods to avoid the dangers.

 

[chrisn7]

[quote
That is a very pragmatic approach and I agree with you on several points, but sadly from the responses we do see on this and other forums, where 'more is better' advice is given it needs to be challenged to make sure that new readers are aware of the dangers and the correct and safe methods to avoid the dangers.[/quote]

I have to agree with Prof here. You only have to remember the 85% guideline that regularly gets turned into a rule or even the law. Having things defined as Prof did, provides a baseline for informed discussion, especially for newcomers.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Colin fully agree, you know when your towing if the outfit feels correct, ,even if its below the max tow hitch limit. Stop , move something around inside, and away you go again.

yes I do know what you are getting at but why is it that one always assumes more is better or the maximum is a target to aim for. a maximum is just that, it is just as daft as loading the van right up to the MTPLM with stuff you are never going to need just to add weight, just like the TV ad [want to make sure you get your monies worth] when it will probably tow better nearer the MIRO,
this is why I said common sense is forgotten, and yes you are correct you do know when the outfit feels right even if all the weights are correct, it doesn't mean it will tow well, if it doesn't feel right, adjusting the load can make a huge difference.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

[quote
That is a very pragmatic approach and I agree with you on several points, but sadly from the responses we do see on this and other forums, where 'more is better' advice is given it needs to be challenged to make sure that new readers are aware of the dangers and the correct and safe methods to avoid the dangers.

I have to agree with Prof here. You only have to remember the 85% guideline that regularly gets turned into a rule or even the law. Having things defined as Prof did, provides a baseline for informed discussion, especially for newcomers.[/quote]

the only trouble with defining a base line is the discussion then focuses on all the variables and that brings with it all the misconceptions that people believe, this in turn complicates the issues, yes you can state what the legislation is and inform the newcomer of the legal requirements but going outside to measure the ball height and the tow hitch when this has been calculated into the design is unnecessary.

let me put it another way, you have a average family car to tow with the maximum nose load is 60 kg so to be safe set the nose weight to 50 kg, tow with it a few times and while it tows ok the car struggles on hills,
so you change to a bigger car, the new one has a nose load of 100 kg, why would it be better to increase the stable nose weight of 50 kg up to 90 kg just because the new car will take it and has a maximum of 100 kg.
it won't it could even make the unit unstable as the load would have to be moved to gain 40 kg extra on the nose. see.

 

[Gafferbill]

.......all modern caravans that I know of have a maximum noseweight limit of 100kgs as set by the chassis manufacturer.
It is the towball weight limit of the towing vehicle, as set by the vehicle manufacturer, that limits noseweight below a figure of 100kgs.
Research by Bath University and all other evidence shows that adding weight (within limits) to the the rear axle of the towing vehicle increases that outfits stability.
Shifting some of a caravan's payload from the caravan to the towing vehicle by increasing noseweight up to the outfits limit must be best practice in my opinion.