nose weight

[craggy123]

Just a quick one as im new to caravaning, how do you lot weigh your weight on the towing hitch? Tia

 

[BedfordGeorge]

You can buy a Nose Weight gauge from Milenco, the one I use, (Rated very good) or look for another make on the market. This fits into the towing hitch and you wind the van down until the gauge stops moving, giving you the nose weight. I also understand some use a Bathroom Scale with a suitable length of wood under the hitch. The main thing is to ensure the ground is flat underneath whichever you use.

you can see the Milenco on ... www.milenco.com

 

[craggy123]

Cheers for that, ill give the bathroom scales a go 1st. All these little bits and pieces are starting to add up haha

 

[Raywood]

The bathroom scales method is not totally accurate as you use the jockey wheel and measure the weight at the post for this which is behind the hitch but it is a useful guide. The gauges use the hitch and should be more accurate but both depend on the accuracy of the mechanism involved.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

The bathroom scales method is not totally accurate as you use the jockey wheel and measure the weight at the post for this which is behind the hitch but it is a useful guide.

BedfordGeorge said:
I also understand some use a Bathroom Scale with a suitable length of wood under the hitch.

So it is under the hitch and not the jockey wheel, so it is more accurate.

 

[Hutch]

:lol: Here we go again :evil: . What if you have the jockey wheel facing towards the tow hitch would that be more accurate than facing backwards, when using a set of , scales. ?

 

[DavenGill1]

We place a set of bathroom scales on the van steps with a block of wood under the towing hitch to measure ours, the steps are about the same height as the tow ball.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

What if you have the jockey wheel facing towards the tow hitch would that be more accurate than facing backwards, when using a set of , scales. ?

Yes

 

[chrisn7]

Measure form the centre of the hitch to the centre of the caravan wheel - H
Measure from the spindle of the jockey wheel (whichever pointing fore or aft) to the centre of caravan wheel - J
Measure the nose weight at the jockey wheel in the same place as above - Wj
Hitch load = J/H * Wj
Or, buy one of those little gadgets that fits between the ball and hitch
Or, buy an Alko premium jockey wheel with built in scale (still have to do the calculation above)
Or, buy a Reich Weigh Control (that calculation again)

 

[ProfJohnL]

For reasons that have been explained many times before on this forum, the nose load a trailer produces is determined by the way the trailer has been loaded, and crucially the height at which the hitch is supported. The actual nose load of any given trailer will change if the hitch is raised or lowered. Consequently the true towed nose load can only be measured when the hitch is at exactly the same height above the road as when it is coupled and ready to tow.

Anything that changes the ride height of the tow vehicle will affect the ride height of the tow hitch, and thus the applied nose load from the trailer.

EU regulations require the static vertical nose load to be measured with the hitch at its ride height, and that is only way you can measure the nose load accurately. And of course this must be done on horizontal ground, as any incline will affect the results.

The compressive spring nose load gauges that are sold will all change their length depending on the applied load. You cannot guarantee the actual compression will settle the hitch at its ride height, and most do not. Neither do they provide any adjustments to allow you to set the correct towing height of the hitch. There are also concerns about their wild inaccuracy accuracy and repeatability of measurement.

There are gauges that sit on the tow ball and then the trailer's hitch sits on top of the gauge, but here again the height of the hitch is changed and thus the measurement method is inaccurate, and cannot be compensated for as the causes of the error have too many variables.

Using a set of bathroom scale s with a stick is hazardous, as the stick is inherently unstable.

Using the jockey wheel or its stem on a set of scales allows you to easily adjust for hitch height but its position on the chassis and even the direction the caster wheel points changes the geometry of the measurement system and is thus inaccurate, - though for any given caravan the error can be calculated and used in future measurements.

The safest method is to use bathroom scales on a caravan step and magazines to adjust the height of the scale so the hitch is supported at it ride height. - though the accuracy of bathroom scales is also poor it is usually ten times better than any of compressed spring gauges available in shops.

 

[Surfer]

The coupling height generally should be about 1' 5" or 440mm. I think this is what the Milenco gauge take into consideration when calibrating the gauge and why using a piece of wood and a bathroom scale may not be accurate. It is also a hassle to carry around bathroom scales to use when on site never mind crawling around the hitch in the pouring rain.

 

[Hutch]

I think, the best nose weight scales , would be the hitch to ground version. The jockey wheel ones, do not state a difference from the hitch to wheel. But in the long run it might only be a difference of 5 kg. Given the angle of the van, etc. You are not gauging, the weight to 1 or 2 kg. Its to 10 or 20 . In my opinion.,

 

[ProfJohnL]

The coupling height generally should be about 1' 5" or 440mm. I think this is what the Milenco gauge take into consideration when calibrating the gauge and why using a piece of wood and a bathroom scale may not be accurate. It is also a hassle to carry around bathroom scales to use when on site never mind crawling around the hitch in the pouring rain.

The EU regulations state the coupling height when coupled to a domestic car should rest between 350 and 420mm! So how can Milenco choose a value that s outside the stipulated range?

All compressive spring gauges will change their length depending on the load applied to them, therefore unless by chance the actual compressed length matches the actual height of the hitch when coupled the displayed load is not the nose load.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think, the best nose weight scales , would be the hitch to ground version. The jockey wheel ones, do not state a difference from the hitch to wheel. But in the long run it might only be a difference of 5 kg. Given the angle of the van, etc. You are not gauging, the weight to 1 or 2 kg. Its to 10 or 20 . In my opinion.,

The nose load limit for car or caravan is just that a limit. there is no legal tolerance on the value. It is up to the user to ensure they take into account any inaccuracies of the measurement device they use and allow for those inaccuracies to ensure the do not exceed the stated limit.

For drivers who use big 4x4's with equally big nose load limits such an inaccuracy may not be a problem, but for normal mortals with cars with a perhaps a 75kg limit a +or -5kg inaccuracy could be the difference between legal and illegal. But the problem is that many of the compressive gauges have much wider inaccuracies than that. according to Milenco some can be out by as much as 30kg!

 

[chrisn7]

I think, the best nose weight scales , would be the hitch to ground version. The jockey wheel ones, do not state a difference from the hitch to wheel. But in the long run it might only be a difference of 5 kg. Given the angle of the van, etc. You are not gauging, the weight to 1 or 2 kg. Its to 10 or 20 . In my opinion.,

Prof is right in that the measurement should be made with the coupling at ride height. In reality however, there would have to be significant deviation to have a significant effect. The coupling pivots through an arc about the caravan wheel,so imagine raising it say 100mm to fit one of those simple devices between it and the towball. As long as the van stays put, a vertical line through the coupling would move back a very small distance indeed, therefore having a very small, if any, effect on noseweight measurement.

Using the jockey wheel is very different. I have the ALKO premium jockey system, and did the calculation in my earlier post, (as ALKO instructions) and found a 30Kg correction factor.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

The coupling height generally should be about 1' 5" or 440mm. I think this is what the Milenco gauge take into consideration when calibrating the gauge

The EU regulations state the coupling height when coupled to a domestic car should rest between 350 and 420mm! So how can Milenco choose a value that s outside the stipulated range?

Is the EU measuring to the centre of the ball or top? That's a difference of about 20mm as it has a flat top, ie the difference between the EU and Milenco.

 

[Surfer]

The coupling height generally should be about 1' 5" or 440mm. I think this is what the Milenco gauge take into consideration when calibrating the gauge and why using a piece of wood and a bathroom scale may not be accurate. It is also a hassle to carry around bathroom scales to use when on site never mind crawling around the hitch in the pouring rain.

The EU regulations state the coupling height when coupled to a domestic car should rest between 350 and 420mm! So how can Milenco choose a value that s outside the stipulated range?

All compressive spring gauges will change their length depending on the load applied to them, therefore unless by chance the actual compressed length matches the actual height of the hitch when coupled the displayed load is not the nose load.

Considering that is the height printed in the Lunar owner's handbook, not sure how you can say Lunar have got it wrong? Please show me where I stated that Milenco have chosen a value outside a stipulated range.
I now remember why I stayed away from this forum for so long as I find your reply condescending as you pretend to know everyhting when obviously you don't!

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Our Lunar handbook is in the van in storage so out of interest I've looked at the current 2016 Lunar handbook on line. That says to measure the nose weight with the van floor horizontal. I'll try that with mine next time I go to storage and see what the height reading is and compare it with the 'hitched to car' height.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

the problem with these threads is after 3 posts they repeat all the stuff that has been posted at least a hundred times before,, and descend into the realms of rocket science accuracy and product loyalty yet common sense gets over looked.
the fact of the matter is no gauge is 100% accurate and no method is 100% accurate either as the variables cancel out the results, the best option is to find one method that suits and stick to that no matter what that is.
aim for a maximum figure, below that of the unit, and it is near enough, if perchance you get it wrong by a couple of kgs it isn't going to matter very much.

 

[Martin24]

I turn my back for 5 mins :blink:

 

[Parksy]

the problem with these threads is after 3 posts they repeat all the stuff that has been posted at least a hundred times before,, and descend into the realms of rocket science accuracy and product loyalty yet common sense gets over looked.
the fact of the matter is no gauge is 100% accurate and no method is 100% accurate either as the variables cancel out the results, the best option is to find one method that suits and stick to that no matter what that is.
aim for a maximum figure, below that of the unit, and it is near enough, if perchance you get it wrong by a couple of kgs it isn't going to matter very much.

Well said Colin.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The coupling height generally should be about 1' 5" or 440mm. I think this is what the Milenco gauge take into consideration when calibrating the gauge

The EU regulations state the coupling height when coupled to a domestic car should rest between 350 and 420mm! So how can Milenco choose a value that s outside the stipulated range?

Is the EU measuring to the centre of the ball or top? That's a difference of about 20mm as it has a flat top, ie the difference between the EU and Milenco.

The EU always measures to the nominal centre of the 50mm sphere on which the tow ball is created.

 

[Damian]

What is the correct height for the coupling head on a trailer or caravan?

A height of 385mm to 455mm is stipulated by the EC Directive if the trailer or caravan is in laden condition. Laden condition refers to a trailer loaded to the maximum specified mass in this instance. The mass must also be distributed evenly over the loading area.

Taken from PF Jones website.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think, the best nose weight scales , would be the hitch to ground version. The jockey wheel ones, do not state a difference from the hitch to wheel. But in the long run it might only be a difference of 5 kg. Given the angle of the van, etc. You are not gauging, the weight to 1 or 2 kg. Its to 10 or 20 . In my opinion.,

Prof is right in that the measurement should be made with the coupling at ride height. In reality however, there would have to be significant deviation to have a significant effect. The coupling pivots through an arc about the caravan wheel,so imagine raising it say 100mm to fit one of those simple devices between it and the towball. As long as the van stays put, a vertical line through the coupling would move back a very small distance indeed, therefore having a very small, if any, effect on noseweight measurement.

Using the jockey wheel is very different. I have the ALKO premium jockey system, and did the calculation in my earlier post, (as ALKO instructions) and found a 30Kg correction factor.

Hello Chrisn,

Whilst the deviation in nose weight on a single axle caravan may not be much, it can still be enough to produce an illegal overload. Besides which if the gauge used has an unknown inaccuracy, you don't know where you are in relation to your prescribed limits.

The deviation on a twin axle caravan is much greater because of the interaction of the twin independent suspension units, and a small difference in heigh can produce a large variation in nose load. Depending on how the caravan is loaded this may increase the or decrease the nose load, which is why it is extra critical to get the measurement right.

 

[ProfJohnL]

What is the correct height for the coupling head on a trailer or caravan?

A height of 385mm to 455mm is stipulated by the EC Directive if the trailer or caravan is in laden condition. Laden condition refers to a trailer loaded to the maximum specified mass in this instance. The mass must also be distributed evenly over the loading area.

Taken from PF Jones website.

Hello Damian,

The coupling height and the coupled height are two different things and are set out in EU Directive 94/20/EC:-

"2.1.1 . Coupling balls and towing brackets must be attached to a vehicle of category Ml , category M2 below 3,5 tonnes and category N1 in a manner which conforms to the clearance and height dimensions given in Figure 30. This requirement shall not apply to off-road vehicles as defined in
Annex II to Directive 92/53/EEC"

PJL Comment: Fig 30 clearly shows the vertical height to the centre of the tow ball must be between 350 & 420mm

"2.2.1 . Class B coupling heads are permitted for trailers of the maximum mass up to and including 3,5 tonnes. With the trailer horizontal and carrying the maximum permitted axle load, coupling heads must be attached so that the coupling point of the trailer is 430 ± 35 mm above the horizontal plane on which the wheels of the trailer stand (see Figure 31)."

PJL Comment: Fig 31 shows an uncoupled caravan with its floor horizontal, and as we know it is common practice for caravan to be towed in a slightly nose down attitude, though with the two sets of limits it is possible for a caravan with a coupling head at its lowest permitted limit to be coupled to a tow vehicle with its tow ball at the upper limit in which case the trailer would assume a slight nose up attitude.