One small victory

[VIP2006]

Hi Monkeys Husband - If you can afford one buy one as I can recommend them and assure you that you will be buying overall a damn fine and safe towing vehicle.

my question to you is. what vehicle is the best towcar to have?

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Hi Monkeys Husband - If you can afford one buy one as I can recommend them and assure you that you will be buying overall a damn fine and safe towing vehicle.

my question to you is. what vehicle is the best towcar to have?

i have no idea as to which car is the best towcar, but in the

last 6 weeks i have seen 5 caravan incidents on the m/way,

4 involving both vehicle and caravan overturned.

3 of the overturned where being driven by 4x4, and i didn't

think it was that windy. so before people start slatting me again for being anti 4x4, may i surgest that... maybe the drivers

where being too overconfident,or does the higher centre of gravity mean that in certain instances they can be effected more

so by the wind. either way i do not know,but what i do know is

what i saw. 4 overturned of which 3 where 4x4s

 

[MONKEY1]

Lol,

When we purchased our tow car 2.5 years ago primarily it had to have the following criteria. In no particular order

1. 45 + mpg on a motorway run

2. 30 + mpg around town.

3. space for two buggies and a weeks shopping

4. space for luggage when we go on holiday

Nice to have's - ability to carry a further two persons (grand parents on days out etc).

As I have parents that both have Volvo estates and my wife's parents both drive 4x4 we had two good bench marks.

We discounted the 4x4 on the basis poor fuel economy on the motorway neither car they have gets more than 32 mpg on a run and 25-27 around town. Equally we (the wife) discounted the lower driving position of an estate car.

There was no compromise however as we brought a people carrier.

VW Sharan Carat 19TDI 110 chipped to 140 bhp 270 lb torque. Does 50 + mpg on the Motorway 35 mpg round town 25-27 when towing. Weighs 1775 kg unladen with full tank and so easily pulls our van safely.

As for the off-road question we don't really - we use both Grass and hard standings and touch wood we haven't experienced any wheel spin issues. Whilst I recognise the 4x4 may be better in snow I believe it's more about skills in the white stuff. I've travelled widely across Europe in the winter (Finland, Poland, Ukraine) etc and you don't see people with 4x4's, equally they don't get stuck like everyone does in the UK soon as it even sleets.

But in answer to your question ultimate tow car - Mercedes Mclaren SLR

Regards Monkeys Husband

 

[littleangel]

Shiraz

Your visiblitily might be slightly improved, but whether you have, transit, 4x4, minibus, or another artic, you cannot see infront if your vision is blocked by all tall vehicle.

If you leave enough room from the vehicle infront (other cars) visibility is no problem.

I disagree with your comment many cars cannot tow a caravan.

It depends on the weight of your van and there are plenty of heavy cars about.

I would say its buying a heavy car with the largest engine size maybe, and towing weights are increased.

Personally I don't care what people have or have not as long I can tow my van.

And as to the enviroment No one is innocent of pollution if they drive any type of vehicle. I am guilty as all others I DRIVE.

 

[Lol1]

Lol,

When we purchased our tow car 2.5 years ago primarily it had to have the following criteria. In no particular order

1. 45 + mpg on a motorway run

2. 30 + mpg around town.

3. space for two buggies and a weeks shopping

4. space for luggage when we go on holiday

Nice to have's - ability to carry a further two persons (grand parents on days out etc).

As I have parents that both have Volvo estates and my wife's parents both drive 4x4 we had two good bench marks.

We discounted the 4x4 on the basis poor fuel economy on the motorway neither car they have gets more than 32 mpg on a run and 25-27 around town. Equally we (the wife) discounted the lower driving position of an estate car.

There was no compromise however as we brought a people carrier.

VW Sharan Carat 19TDI 110 chipped to 140 bhp 270 lb torque. Does 50 + mpg on the Motorway 35 mpg round town 25-27 when towing. Weighs 1775 kg unladen with full tank and so easily pulls our van safely.

As for the off-road question we don't really - we use both Grass and hard standings and touch wood we haven't experienced any wheel spin issues. Whilst I recognise the 4x4 may be better in snow I believe it's more about skills in the white stuff. I've travelled widely across Europe in the winter (Finland, Poland, Ukraine) etc and you don't see people with 4x4's, equally they don't get stuck like everyone does in the UK soon as it even sleets.

But in answer to your question ultimate tow car - Mercedes Mclaren SLR

Regards Monkeys Husband

Thought that was aimed at me, until I realised you were laughing out loud! (Were you?)

But while I am here, I'll just say that I am glad you have found the right car for you and your family. You have certain criteria for your chosen transport and been successful in what you bought. We don't say, "Buy a 4x4 because they are the best cars for towing" even though I think there is an element of truth there, because everyone has different priorities. Each and every car can have a case made for and against it, none are ideal, most do a reasonable job of towing. So with that I bid thee farewell, while I go away and think about changing my log on name..

Lol

 

[Lol1]

Anyone getting hit with a sense of deja vu?

It's like an armadillo, soft on the inside, hard on the outside, with a nice chewy centre..

 

[Lutz]

You're right, Monkey's husband, proportionately fewer 4x4's are used for towing on the Continent compared to the UK. I can think of a few reasons why:

1. There is a general attitude that you tow what is legally permitted, regardless of any weight ratio recommendation. Only if you want to tow at 100kph instead of 80kph do you have to stay under a 80% max. ratio (that's the current law but it's due to be changed shortly). That's why most 4x4's are used for the sole purpose of being allowed to tow faster.

2. Touring is less popular for short breaks. People tend to take their caravans further afield to larger campsites with good road access rather than small CL-type grassy sites where one could get stuck without a 4x4.

3. The vehicle tax differential between smaller and larger cars can be significant (Here in Germany, tax is calculated not only on the basis of emissions but also of engine size. In other countries, horsepower or weight are used, but all these factors place big 4x4's at a greater disadvantage.)

 

[colin(bridgend)]

To take this topic one step further consider the motor home with a Luton style over bed. What chance would there be if a pedestrian was to be hit with this type of vehicle. A normal car/4x4 would throw the individual on to the bonnet or sideways. A Luton type vehicle would not deflect the body in the same manner and probably do far greater injury. This argument could be taken to its extreme when considering double decker busses, 44 ton artics, etc.

I think this topic has been discussed to such great length that those who own 4x4s will never be converted in their ways by the anti 4x4s and vice versa. Isn't it time to give this a rest and discuss meaningful caravan topics. Incidently I have a 4x4 and a Luton style motorhome and am quite happy driving either of them. I don't go out looking for an accident and I think I drive in a safe manner. The problem is how the vehicle is driven. So please all shut up on this endless debate and consider other issues.

 

[littleangel]

I'm not anti 4x4.

I just can't afford one!!!

 

[Lutz]

The main cause of injury to pedestrians is 'hardness' of body components such as the substantial bumpers that 4x4's usually have. In order to reduce injury, the front of the vehicle must provide as large as possible an impact area which, at the same time, must be capable of absorbing energy by deflecting. This means that large vehicles, including 4x4's, are not necessarily any more dangerous to pedestrians than cars. They just have to be designed accordingly. On the whole, most 4x4's on the market today are designs that basically go back 20 or 30 years before pedestrian protection became an issue. However, I am sure we will see new models in the near future which will meet modern pedestrian protection requirements.

 

[MONKEY1]

Thought that was aimed at me, until I realised you were laughing out loud! (Were you?)

But while I am here, I'll just say that I am glad you have found the right car for you and your family. You have certain criteria for your chosen transport and been successful in what you bought. We don't say, "Buy a 4x4 because they are the best cars for towing" even though I think there is an element of truth there, because everyone has different priorities. Each and every car can have a case made for and against it, none are ideal, most do a reasonable job of towing. So with that I bid thee farewell, while I go away and think about changing my log on name..

Lol

Lol,

Sorry for the wrong call sign, my reply was aimed at Shiraz. Come to think of what price would a sign on name go for on the open market. It won't be long before the avid Ebay'ers start to sell copies of Lutz etc

Regards

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Gotta put my twopen'orth in although I think Im only repeating myself from a previous post. I personally for what my opinions worth have no problems with 4x4s if they are used for a purpose. Farmers for example or dare I say it, caravanners for towing. My problem lies with the people who just drive them as a status symbol as if the 4x4 is an extension of their penis. For the life of me why are they needed in cities? Do selfish people taking their kids to school feel safer having their kids in a 4x4 with its Bullbars on the front. As far as Im concerned it shouldnt be on the road if its not used for towing or for people who have a need to get across fields with a real purpose, for example engineers who need to get to electric pylons etc. and not for those who just like to churn up the countryside for pleasure leaving ruts full of water and causing erosion and pollution needlessly. That leads me to the question Ive asked before without getting an answer, whats green laning, heheheh? I get visions of people driving their 4x4s down country lanes in their big boys toys. But for what purpose though? Please enlighten the unenlightened because Im sure I must be wrong because for the life of me I cannot see what would be enjoyable with that. Oh and by the way if I see any of you churning up my fields or woodland on my estate you will soon find a six bore up your jacksy. I would hate to see my tame pheasants disturbed in the breeding season, what would i do without something to blow to smithereens from 6 feet away. Now that damned government have stopped me hunting what are us custodians of the countryside to do, life gets so boring. At least it gives me more time for a roll in the hayloft with Teasing Tina. Toodle pip all you peasants, now get back to work.

 

[Steve L]

Gotta put my twopen'orth in although I think Im only repeating myself from a previous post. I personally for what my opinions worth have no problems with 4x4s if they are used for a purpose. Farmers for example or dare I say it, caravanners for towing. My problem lies with the people who just drive them as a status symbol as if the 4x4 is an extension of their penis. For the life of me why are they needed in cities? Do selfish people taking their kids to school feel safer having their kids in a 4x4 with its Bullbars on the front. As far as Im concerned it shouldnt be on the road if its not used for towing or for people who have a need to get across fields with a real purpose, for example engineers who need to get to electric pylons etc. and not for those who just like to churn up the countryside for pleasure leaving ruts full of water and causing erosion and pollution needlessly. That leads me to the question Ive asked before without getting an answer, whats green laning, heheheh? I get visions of people driving their 4x4s down country lanes in their big boys toys. But for what purpose though? Please enlighten the unenlightened because Im sure I must be wrong because for the life of me I cannot see what would be enjoyable with that. Oh and by the way if I see any of you churning up my fields or woodland on my estate you will soon find a six bore up your jacksy. I would hate to see my tame pheasants disturbed in the breeding season, what would i do without something to blow to smithereens from 6 feet away. Now that damned government have stopped me hunting what are us custodians of the countryside to do, life gets so boring. At least it gives me more time for a roll in the hayloft with Teasing Tina. Toodle pip all you peasants, now get back to work.

Here here your lordship.

I see plenty of 4x4's which should display the "school bus" sign, and often do 66 point turns in the supermarket car park.

Having owned a few myself I can say a small second car is much better for the town work.

As for green lane driving, I used to use the old 17th century coach track from Hope under Dinmore to the Hamlet of Burghope which came out right at the back door of my folks house, to avoid the over inquisitive Boys in blue, when I had a custom car. I had great fun going back in the morning to watch the tow trucks towning the MK11 escorts out of the wood who dred to try to follow.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Lord B - I have to make comment that you have an elloquent way with words whereby you can make a boring subject which has been killed seem once again interesting. I trust that your input has not now woken up too many other contributors and reignited the fuse on this topic.

I may be wrong, but I think the fitting of bull bars is now illegal. My 4x4 (Daihatsu Fourtrack) is also used by my son as he is employed in the construction industry and is often on site.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Lord B - I have to make comment that you have an elloquent way with words whereby you can make a boring subject which has been killed seem once again interesting. I trust that your input has not now woken up too many other contributors and reignited the fuse on this topic.

I may be wrong, but I think the fitting of bull bars is now illegal. My 4x4 (Daihatsu Fourtrack) is also used by my son as he is employed in the construction industry and is often on site.

ho well i soppose i may be becoming anti 4x4,why because of the

general reasons that are given for there uses.

people have been towing caravans for decades using plain and simple 2wd cars,cars today are starting to get heavier again and

are packed with such wonders as abs and traction control to help

people overcome there lack of skills or conditions.

we generally have a milder climate here so are winters are no

where near as bad as the general continent. how many people have

snow tyres or chains, bet its nowhere near as many as the people

in southern italy, nevermind northern europe or the alpine areas

generally they say an heavier car is better for towing and that a

good selling point for 4x4s, yet if you use that whatotowcar site

[something like that] where they give you the chance to see how

a car/caravan match up, i am surprised that no one takes note of

how some of these vehicles match up on the road, what i mean is

some are so slow as to be a hindrence to others, and yet are still seen as excellent towers? hows that?plainly you should want

to be able to get up to a good towing speed as quickly as possible. or is it a question of, hell i am in no hurry and people can wait. how on earth can a car win tow car of the year

when even the judges point out it could do with more power?

statements like my son also uses the diahatsu as he is in contruction? whats your piont. i drive a 2wd 7.5 or 12 tonne lorry i deliever to the construction industries, have you seen where some of those water sub station sites are?

do ford do a 4x4 transit van? they seem to be able to deliever

anywhere.

obviously if you live in the highlands then 4x4s are life savers

now one day i will own a 4x4 it will be big and heavy,because i have forgotten how to drive with full consentration or

read the road like i can now, one day i will have a 4x4, but

hopefully its a good 20 years away.

happy caravaning.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

ho well i soppose i may be becoming anti 4x4,why because of the

general reasons that are given for there uses.

people have been towing caravans for decades using plain and simple 2wd cars,cars today are starting to get heavier again and

are packed with such wonders as abs and traction control to help

people overcome there lack of skills or conditions.

we generally have a milder climate here so are winters are no

where near as bad as the general continent. how many people have

snow tyres or chains, bet its nowhere near as many as the people

in southern italy, nevermind northern europe or the alpine areas

generally they say an heavier car is better for towing and that a

good selling point for 4x4s, yet if you use that whatotowcar site

[something like that] where they give you the chance to see how

a car/caravan match up, i am surprised that no one takes note of

how some of these vehicles match up on the road, what i mean is

some are so slow as to be a hindrence to others, and yet are still seen as excellent towers? hows that?plainly you should want

to be able to get up to a good towing speed as quickly as possible. or is it a question of, hell i am in no hurry and people can wait. how on earth can a car win tow car of the year

when even the judges point out it could do with more power?

statements like my son also uses the diahatsu as he is in contruction? whats your piont. i drive a 2wd 7.5 or 12 tonne lorry i deliever to the construction industries, have you seen where some of those water sub station sites are?

do ford do a 4x4 transit van? they seem to be able to deliever

anywhere.

obviously if you live in the highlands then 4x4s are life savers

now one day i will own a 4x4 it will be big and heavy,because i have forgotten how to drive with full consentration or

read the road like i can now, one day i will have a 4x4, but

hopefully its a good 20 years away.

happy caravaning.

The point I was trying to put across was that my 4x4 is not just used as a tow vehicle for the caravan and a Chelsea tractor for other days, it does actually get dirty on construction sites and is more robust for the different types of sites he visits than a normal car would be. It is a definate workhorse. It would be no use in having a 4x4 Transit van doubling up as a tow vehicle as many touring sites would not allow a van/caravn combination on the possibility of it being a member of the new age traveller fraternity. My comment was meant in a genuine maaner without sounding snobbish or otherwise. Sorry if I created a wrong impression.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

The point I was trying to put across was that my 4x4 is not just used as a tow vehicle for the caravan and a Chelsea tractor for other days, it does actually get dirty on construction sites and is more robust for the different types of sites he visits than a normal car would be. It is a definate workhorse. It would be no use in having a 4x4 Transit van doubling up as a tow vehicle as many touring sites would not allow a van/caravn combination on the possibility of it being a member of the new age traveller fraternity. My comment was meant in a genuine maaner without sounding snobbish or otherwise. Sorry if I created a wrong impression.

colin.. sorry it wasn't a dig at you, it was more ..a debte

starter.. i believe everyone has the right to drive whatever they want..just drive it. having read loads of good advive on caravaning on this site, i have found no reason to respond to anything but the towcar topics.i have become a little dismayed

at how some people believe they need to justify what they drive,

and at times there justifications do not make any real sense.

abit like some of my posts.

hell just seen a ssangong in my caravanning book , new for 20k

it even looks ok.

but could not justify having one for the 3 or 4 weeks a year

i go towing and the fact 45 mpg seems to be a number set in my

head for the type of mpg i expect for my car.[not towing mpg]

for others this is not a priorty, and therefore can buy a car

for other reasons.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Hi Giovanni - you are an evil person - you are trying to reignite a topic of debate which had almost died out. And more to the point I fell for your evil ways. I was hoping that this topic would cease to be and more constructive issues could be discussed on this forum.

You are therefore to be banned to the dungeons of Lord B's estate until you repent your ways and speak only when spoken to. Seriously, I will be glad to see certain never ending topics of discussion coming to an end on this forum - this is one. There will never be an amicable conclusion to this so I hope it will cease from this day hence. Regards Colin

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Hi Giovanni - you are an evil person - you are trying to reignite a topic of debate which had almost died out. And more to the point I fell for your evil ways. I was hoping that this topic would cease to be and more constructive issues could be discussed on this forum.

You are therefore to be banned to the dungeons of Lord B's estate until you repent your ways and speak only when spoken to. Seriously, I will be glad to see certain never ending topics of discussion coming to an end on this forum - this is one. There will never be an amicable conclusion to this so I hope it will cease from this day hence. Regards Colin

PS no matter what else is said on this topic I will totaly ignore it and not be drageed into it any further - FINAL WORD.

 

[VIP2006]

colin.. sorry it wasn't a dig at you, it was more ..a debte

starter.. i believe everyone has the right to drive whatever they want..just drive it. having read loads of good advive on caravaning on this site, i have found no reason to respond to anything but the towcar topics.i have become a little dismayed

at how some people believe they need to justify what they drive,

and at times there justifications do not make any real sense.

abit like some of my posts.

hell just seen a ssangong in my caravanning book , new for 20k

it even looks ok.

but could not justify having one for the 3 or 4 weeks a year

i go towing and the fact 45 mpg seems to be a number set in my

head for the type of mpg i expect for my car.[not towing mpg]

for others this is not a priorty, and therefore can buy a car

for other reasons.

Hi Giovanni - do I detect that you are either

1)an englishman with strong Italian connections

2) a Italian living in the UK.

3) a Italian living in Italy.

if you are an Englishman then keep your connections going for from my experience they are tops in every department, culture style food history etc.etc.etc and most Italians I have met revere children and the elderly

2) an Italian living in this country then you must miss your home and loved ones there

no.3 then my friend I welcome you to this caravan web site and envy you living in such a country for if I ever win the Grand prize I would helicopter there very frequently and look for a villa where I would keep (if possible) an old ladie skilled in the culinary arts of italy, for I love italian food and wine with its unpretentious presentation.

Stay happy and enjoy whatever you do.

 

[JandP]

Just like to say my bit on the subject of injuries to pedestrians. BBC news recently reported on this and quoted a report in the British Medical Journal, it appears that the important factor is the height of the impact on the pedestrian. A normal car bumper is a comparatively low height and tends to cause injuries to the lower leg and knee and secondary injury when the body is flipped over the bonnet and the head strikes the bottom of the windscreen (ouch!). The 4x4 bonnet is higher and strikes the body higher up causing more serious injury to the upper leg and pelvis and a doubling of injuries to the vulnerable regions of the head thorax and abdomen. They also qoute an American study which showed that pedestrian deaths were almost doubled in 4x4 accidents and serious injury increased almost four times. Most of this has already been quoted on here but I think its worth repeating. I think Lutz is correct when he said that the average 4x4 design goes back 20 or 30 years but hopefully they are now so popular that manufacturers will spend more on research to bring them up to date.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Psssttttt Colin, I can see you peeking ;O)

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Psssttttt Colin, I can see you peeking ;O)

I might peek but not talking

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Hi Giovanni - do I detect that you are either

1)an englishman with strong Italian connections

2) a Italian living in the UK.

3) a Italian living in Italy.

if you are an Englishman then keep your connections going for from my experience they are tops in every department, culture style food history etc.etc.etc and most Italians I have met revere children and the elderly

2) an Italian living in this country then you must miss your home and loved ones there

no.3 then my friend I welcome you to this caravan web site and envy you living in such a country for if I ever win the Grand prize I would helicopter there very frequently and look for a villa where I would keep (if possible) an old ladie skilled in the culinary arts of italy, for I love italian food and wine with its unpretentious presentation.

Stay happy and enjoy whatever you do.

i was born here of italian parents, took up caravanning for the sole reason of touring italy,as hotels have become way too expensive. find this forum to be very informed,although i do

debate on the car section, everywhere else i am happy to read

and learn,also find it to be very civil on here, which makes

a change from some sites where name calling and real slagging off

takes place.

perhaps this is a sign of what type of people go caravanning,

which will make it an even more pleasureable past time.

 

[sparkes]

Back to the original subject.

Its OK Pete, No need to worry. I had a word with my brother and he picks up a discovery later today.

Balance restored

Steve