Moderator - I see my post regarding advice on this topic to Lord B. has been removed. My post was just stating a fact that whereas I have been the victim of what in my opinion is ridicule and that because of this I was not prepared to continue discussing the point when a single minded corresponant was attempting to brainwash me. I was purely advising Lord B. to refrain from any further postings, the same as to what I intended to do, as I felt whatever he or I said was being cut down in flames. I notice that the postings against me are still evident - is this a case of victimisation or a rule for one and not for the other?
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I removed a section of around 6 posts, some of which were abusive and some were just replies to them. I couldn't leave the replies as they would not make sense on their own. I'm sorry yours was a victim.Moderator - I see my post regarding advice on this topic to Lord B. has been removed. My post was just stating a fact that whereas I have been the victim of what in my opinion is ridicule and that because of this I was not prepared to continue discussing the point when a single minded corresponant was attempting to brainwash me. I was purely advising Lord B. to refrain from any further postings, the same as to what I intended to do, as I felt whatever he or I said was being cut down in flames. I notice that the postings against me are still evident - is this a case of victimisation or a rule for one and not for the other?
As for posts against you being still evident, if I've missed something, please email me pcvforum@templenet.co.uk.
As for vicitimising you - the reason I removed some unacceptable post was to uphold your right to take part in debates without having to suffer being ridiculed.
Colin.. I assume you feel I was the one Brain washing and shooting you down in flames. I am sorry if you feel that way as it was not my single minded aim to ridicule you or anyone else. I come from a background where if I say I can do something or know something I am open to scrutiny where all of my actions have consequence and people do get hurt if we are wrong. So if I say I can do something I have to back it up and show it is possible. I have always been the same so I expect people who say something to either actually know or at least be able to back up what they say. This is just the way I have to work and all those round me have to live and work....
So my comment regarding your EU lecturing still stands purely because what is supposed to happen and how life is supposed to be in one particular country is not even close in reality. I only talk from personal knowldge and years of international traveling experience. I admit when I see relatives or freinds in some of the other Baltic state tell of their own families I feel sad and find the reality of life for many in those countries hard to comprehend. So I understand why many of the citizens from those countries do move for work. I know more Latvians actually live and work in Germany and for some reason Ireland than in Britain. But the whole point of my comments has always been that legally we have almost no choice with migrant workers.
So again Sorry for the sour taste, if I am wrong or make a mistake I will always learn from my errors if they are pointed out to me, as this is how we all learn.
So my comment regarding your EU lecturing still stands purely because what is supposed to happen and how life is supposed to be in one particular country is not even close in reality. I only talk from personal knowldge and years of international traveling experience. I admit when I see relatives or freinds in some of the other Baltic state tell of their own families I feel sad and find the reality of life for many in those countries hard to comprehend. So I understand why many of the citizens from those countries do move for work. I know more Latvians actually live and work in Germany and for some reason Ireland than in Britain. But the whole point of my comments has always been that legally we have almost no choice with migrant workers.
So again Sorry for the sour taste, if I am wrong or make a mistake I will always learn from my errors if they are pointed out to me, as this is how we all learn.
Hi Colin,
" I have been the victim of what in my opinion is ridicule and that because of this I was not prepared to continue discussing the point"
Colin don't worry about it. Tony Blair and Menzies Cambell along with Cameron go through it every Wednesday. It is a tool of debating, hold your ground as long as your sure your not standing on sand !!! The clever thing is to sometimes, stop digging. Mind you sometimes I don't take my own advice!!!!!!!!!
Val & Frank
" I have been the victim of what in my opinion is ridicule and that because of this I was not prepared to continue discussing the point"
Colin don't worry about it. Tony Blair and Menzies Cambell along with Cameron go through it every Wednesday. It is a tool of debating, hold your ground as long as your sure your not standing on sand !!! The clever thing is to sometimes, stop digging. Mind you sometimes I don't take my own advice!!!!!!!!!
Val & Frank
Put bluntly Rich I do not care what happens in the Balkens when the ramifacations of your prefered solution leads to consequences that affect people who are citizens of this island. If this seems harsh then perhaps to use your own justifacation I have seen first hand the results of being overrun by incomers. The lack of affordable housing in the rented quarter due to migrants over filling houses so as to reduce their outgoing leaving more money to send home, money lost to the british economy!, meaning that the young couples are being pushed to one side. The same couples finding that they are taking backward steps on the local authority housing lists as foreign workers are prioritized, (Please dont try to say this does not happen as even a minister of this goverment has made comment). Firms laying off workers only to restart after a token period using "CASUAL LABOUR" all of whom are migrant and working for minimum wages so undercutting the previous rates. Local schools overun with migrant workers children to the point were English children are unable to obtain places. You are very quick to lecture us about our responsibilities to the poor of the continent and berate us for our lack of understanding but perhaps you should try to channel some of your energies into caring for those within our own communities. Remember the old adage "charity begins at home"
Marc
Marc
Marc "Firms laying off workers only to restart after a token period using "CASUAL LABOUR" all of whom are migrant and working for minimum wages so undercutting the previous rates".
Marc,
I have to disagree on this point.
The Social Chapter implemented across the EU brought into LAW around 1994 the TUPE regulations which stopped what you have posted as a fact. For goodness sake don't be so negative, to become a part of a Global Trading Block needs politicians of Courage. Who are we going to trade with Zambia, Zimbabwe Botswana, New Zeland ??? Australia kissed us Good Bye and entered into the Asia Trading Block. South Africa I think one Rand is now about 10p would be an excellent trading partner!!!!. I love the HISTORY of our Country, but we have to move on.The world has changed and to be a part of the New World we need to accept that change.
Val & Frank
Marc,
I have to disagree on this point.
The Social Chapter implemented across the EU brought into LAW around 1994 the TUPE regulations which stopped what you have posted as a fact. For goodness sake don't be so negative, to become a part of a Global Trading Block needs politicians of Courage. Who are we going to trade with Zambia, Zimbabwe Botswana, New Zeland ??? Australia kissed us Good Bye and entered into the Asia Trading Block. South Africa I think one Rand is now about 10p would be an excellent trading partner!!!!. I love the HISTORY of our Country, but we have to move on.The world has changed and to be a part of the New World we need to accept that change.
Val & Frank
Remember the old adage "charity begins at home"
Marc
We are the 4/5th richest country in the world what's this charity your talking about ?????
Val & Frank
Marc
We are the 4/5th richest country in the world what's this charity your talking about ?????
Val & Frank
"Australia kissed us Good Bye and entered into the Asia Trading Block".Marc "Firms laying off workers only to restart after a token period using "CASUAL LABOUR" all of whom are migrant and working for minimum wages so undercutting the previous rates".
Marc,
I have to disagree on this point.
The Social Chapter implemented across the EU brought into LAW around 1994 the TUPE regulations which stopped what you have posted as a fact. For goodness sake don't be so negative, to become a part of a Global Trading Block needs politicians of Courage. Who are we going to trade with Zambia, Zimbabwe Botswana, New Zeland ??? Australia kissed us Good Bye and entered into the Asia Trading Block. South Africa I think one Rand is now about 10p would be an excellent trading partner!!!!. I love the HISTORY of our Country, but we have to move on.The world has changed and to be a part of the New World we need to accept that change.
Val & Frank
Wrong Frank, we kissed THEM goodbye, along with the Scandinavian & Commonwealth countries when we joined the E.U.
Frank, The law within both in europe and britain prohibits the misuse of migrant workers (both legal and illeagal but that doesnt seem to stop what has become no more than a lucrative business. Simply put for every law that is passed their will always be a loophole. The non event that you inform me is impssible happened in Goole but simular cases are happening within the county in smaller methods such as only replacing out going workers with lower payed workers and using the justifacation of only paying what is neccersary. As I stated earlier, if the workforce is bolstered to excess by the influx of migrant workers then the simple expediant of supply and demand means that hard fought for standards will be eradicated if not overnight then shortly. to take up your point of leaving behind the old and taking up the new Frank Have you never heard the saying that you should not throw out the baby with the bath water.
Marc
Marc
Marc "you should not throw out the baby with the bath water".
Marc BUT you need to throw out the Bath Water, or you become submerged !!!!!!!!!!! All you need do is lift out the Baby dry it off and see WHAT DO YOU HAVE ????. A BABY and not a load of Dirty Bath Water
Val & Frank
Marc BUT you need to throw out the Bath Water, or you become submerged !!!!!!!!!!! All you need do is lift out the Baby dry it off and see WHAT DO YOU HAVE ????. A BABY and not a load of Dirty Bath Water
Val & Frank
See in the paper today Poland is making a plea to their construction workers in Britain to return home as now there is a shortage of good tradesmen in the country and they have the Expo ehibition in 2012.
See in the paper today Poland is making a plea to their construction workers in Britain to return home as now there is a shortage of good tradesmen in the country and they have the Expo ehibition in 2012.
See the EU is working , What better way to see that it is ?????
Val & Frank
See the EU is working , What better way to see that it is ?????
Val & Frank
Just a thought. I wonder if we can divert the Somali's after they've travelled through Spain and France to turn right at Sangatte and carry on east :O)See in the paper today Poland is making a plea to their construction workers in Britain to return home as now there is a shortage of good tradesmen in the country and they have the Expo ehibition in 2012.
What???????????See in the paper today Poland is making a plea to their construction workers in Britain to return home as now there is a shortage of good tradesmen in the country and they have the Expo ehibition in 2012.
See the EU is working , What better way to see that it is ?????
Val & Frank
I've hardly read any of the posts in this thread but what I will say is DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ IN THE MEDIA.
Over and out from me.
Lisa
Over and out from me.
Lisa
Sorry frank I do not understand the gist of your last sentence - could you elaborate what you are attempting to say. thanks.See in the paper today Poland is making a plea to their construction workers in Britain to return home as now there is a shortage of good tradesmen in the country and they have the Expo ehibition in 2012.
See the EU is working , What better way to see that it is ?????
Val & Frank
Marc.............
What is my prefered solution?? I have not offered one!
I have only stated the law as it stands makes it so migrant workers can come here. If the law changes then fine but we all must abide by that law.
Also apart from Slovenia there are no other Balkan Countries in the EU.Greece is close but not usually classed as Balkan.
Frank is correct and change is going to happen whether we like it or not.If we alienate other European countries we are going to lose trading partners and that is bad for us not only long term but can have immediate effect on any industry which requires imported raw materials like Baltic Pine, Scandanavian and German metals and Polish Coal! We need to trade and I admit 100% of the products we sell and distribute are imported and not made in the UK. This is not because I want to buy cheap and foreign! Here in the we just don't make the goods UK customers want.Even many parts in your van are made in Europe. Al-Ko is a German Company with production in France, Italy, Russia, Poland, Spain, Ukraine, Hungaria, Slovenia, Austria, Norway, Holland, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, Sweden and Latvia.
Dometic, the company who made your vans fridge and probably your Heki roof light are Swedish. So for such a British built hobby it seems we are actually pulling mostly European parts and only a UK assembled Caravan.
So if we want charity to really start at home we all need to see how much of what we have is actually British. Most of us don't even have British cars and we all talk about their demise but did not buy British when they were being made.Even the Mini is now German.
If we cut ties with Europe we are then stuck and who can we blame for that? We cannot pick and choose when we want Europe for the good stuff and expect to still get fair trade if we alienate those who supply us as well.
What is my prefered solution?? I have not offered one!
I have only stated the law as it stands makes it so migrant workers can come here. If the law changes then fine but we all must abide by that law.
Also apart from Slovenia there are no other Balkan Countries in the EU.Greece is close but not usually classed as Balkan.
Frank is correct and change is going to happen whether we like it or not.If we alienate other European countries we are going to lose trading partners and that is bad for us not only long term but can have immediate effect on any industry which requires imported raw materials like Baltic Pine, Scandanavian and German metals and Polish Coal! We need to trade and I admit 100% of the products we sell and distribute are imported and not made in the UK. This is not because I want to buy cheap and foreign! Here in the we just don't make the goods UK customers want.Even many parts in your van are made in Europe. Al-Ko is a German Company with production in France, Italy, Russia, Poland, Spain, Ukraine, Hungaria, Slovenia, Austria, Norway, Holland, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, Sweden and Latvia.
Dometic, the company who made your vans fridge and probably your Heki roof light are Swedish. So for such a British built hobby it seems we are actually pulling mostly European parts and only a UK assembled Caravan.
So if we want charity to really start at home we all need to see how much of what we have is actually British. Most of us don't even have British cars and we all talk about their demise but did not buy British when they were being made.Even the Mini is now German.
If we cut ties with Europe we are then stuck and who can we blame for that? We cannot pick and choose when we want Europe for the good stuff and expect to still get fair trade if we alienate those who supply us as well.
LB, Sweden are part of the EU and they are probably the largest Scandanavian exporter with Nokia in Finland(OK outside the EU)second.Marc "Firms laying off workers only to restart after a token period using "CASUAL LABOUR" all of whom are migrant and working for minimum wages so undercutting the previous rates".
Marc,
I have to disagree on this point.
The Social Chapter implemented across the EU brought into LAW around 1994 the TUPE regulations which stopped what you have posted as a fact. For goodness sake don't be so negative, to become a part of a Global Trading Block needs politicians of Courage. Who are we going to trade with Zambia, Zimbabwe Botswana, New Zeland ??? Australia kissed us Good Bye and entered into the Asia Trading Block. South Africa I think one Rand is now about 10p would be an excellent trading partner!!!!. I love the HISTORY of our Country, but we have to move on.The world has changed and to be a part of the New World we need to accept that change.
Val & Frank
If the Polish Goverment want the trades people back it goes to show the Polish economy is expanding. The whole aim of the EU is to expand trade between states, this is done by the transfer of wealth from rich to poor. So the poor become rich and buy goods from the rich, and the circle continues until everyone is RICH.
Sorry people if you can't understand your lost.
Val & Frank
Sorry people if you can't understand your lost.
Val & Frank
Two postings have ben removed as they were staring to get personal ,yet again.
If the topic is going to be reduced to personal insults, then any further postings of this nature will result in the poster having his access suspended.
If the topic is going to be reduced to personal insults, then any further postings of this nature will result in the poster having his access suspended.
Frank I do understand what you are saying and any trade fair or large international events in those struggling countries will help get foreign investment through trade and tourism. But the ideal of rich giving money to help the poor until we are all rich is probably never going to happen as all we can do is a redistribution of wealth and there is only the same amount of money to go round, so we have to hope the richest will allow themselves to lose some of that wealth. Greed is the biggest hurdle to overcome. With an attitude of what is yours is mine and mine is my own, regarding Europe we may never reach a happy compromise for many people.
I know there are problems not only with policy but peoples attitudes which can stir up nationalistic reactions as we even see here with small comments about charity begining at home and reactions which have got personal and have been removed my the Mod. Do any of us have a solution which does not cause more problems than they solve?? I am affraid I don't think we have as this is happening Europe wide problem and we have to follow the laws and regulations laid out by the European parliment, which like it or not were voted in by us.
I know there are problems not only with policy but peoples attitudes which can stir up nationalistic reactions as we even see here with small comments about charity begining at home and reactions which have got personal and have been removed my the Mod. Do any of us have a solution which does not cause more problems than they solve?? I am affraid I don't think we have as this is happening Europe wide problem and we have to follow the laws and regulations laid out by the European parliment, which like it or not were voted in by us.
G
Guest
Managed to get a quick look on here before the weekend.
I leave at post 54 and now it is up to 169, and that includes 2 deletions. Only 2?? Not too bad as we usually manage to get the whole thread deleted by now.
LB, you are doing a wonderful job, you will be getting honarary citizenship of the new Scotland if you keep it up.
Take care everyone and have a good holiday weekend. I have to state it is 28 degrees here, but I see it is scheduled to rain in the UK on Monday....oops.
SL
I leave at post 54 and now it is up to 169, and that includes 2 deletions. Only 2?? Not too bad as we usually manage to get the whole thread deleted by now.
LB, you are doing a wonderful job, you will be getting honarary citizenship of the new Scotland if you keep it up.
Take care everyone and have a good holiday weekend. I have to state it is 28 degrees here, but I see it is scheduled to rain in the UK on Monday....oops.
SL
" But the ideal of rich giving money to help the poor until we are all rich is probably never going to happen as all we can do is a redistribution of wealth and there is only the same amount of money to go round, so we have to hope the richest will allow themselves to lose some of that wealth.
I worked with a Franch company, and all the French used to complain about the PIGS, it took me ages to work it out !!!.It has to do with the transfer of wealth from Industrial (wealthy ) Northern Europe to Southern Europe which at that time was the aim of the E.U. and still is but the direction has changed ie Northern Europe to Eastern Europe.
S.L. It's time to get some work done, you on long European lunches now ??????????????
Val & Frank
I worked with a Franch company, and all the French used to complain about the PIGS, it took me ages to work it out !!!.It has to do with the transfer of wealth from Industrial (wealthy ) Northern Europe to Southern Europe which at that time was the aim of the E.U. and still is but the direction has changed ie Northern Europe to Eastern Europe.
S.L. It's time to get some work done, you on long European lunches now ??????????????
Val & Frank
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