O Frank I was just reading your reply,good for you Frank and wife, until I got to the your last sentence. Talk about let the side down. Liz
Overseas Workers
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Frank am I right in assuming from the wording of your posting that you do not have a bus pass untill you are 65? We have ours in Wales at 60 so had mine almost two years now - very handy but they wont tow the caravan for me. We also have free prescriptions and also reduced student universaty fees. Liz if you should read this it will pay you to come to moonlight in Wales.
Hi Peter
How is this contributing to society
By working and paying Tax and NI. If we had large scale unemployment I would agree that they are taking peoles jobs, but we don't have unemployment.So we have vacancies and they are filling them, albeit low paid work, but that is what it is low paid work, picking veg or waiting on tables etc.
Val & Frank
How is this contributing to society
By working and paying Tax and NI. If we had large scale unemployment I would agree that they are taking peoles jobs, but we don't have unemployment.So we have vacancies and they are filling them, albeit low paid work, but that is what it is low paid work, picking veg or waiting on tables etc.
Val & Frank
Frank, we all know people like that. I have a brother in law who has been screwing the system for at least 18 years. He gets mobility allowance, a new car every 3 years. Eighteen years ago when he found out he was successful at being classed as disabled he was building a porch on the front of their house. Since then he's moved into a bungalow at the end of a cul de sac. Since living there he's laid a patio, built a garage and fitted a kitchen for himself and a neighbour. Recently he's being trying a new con, by claiming he had asbestosis, caught from a place he worked at years ago as a youngster. Thankfully he was unsuccessful though. When the doc came to his home to examine him, because according to my sis he couldn't manage the ride in an ambulance, he stayed in bed and made sure his walking stick was in view. He's even got his daughter in law in on the act. She claims for post natal depression, the child is now ten. They are all off to Disneyland in Florida this year :O) He goes fishing and drinks like a fish, from the time he wakes up. He also smokes like a train. I cannot bubble him because it's not in my nature, i was never a snitch at school or work.
Hi Peter, thankyou,thankyou, you raised very good points,
which I have been trying to do all evening, but even more so.
Liz
which I have been trying to do all evening, but even more so.
Liz
Frank I am pleased that their is a surplus of jobs in your region however the stats show that unemployment is starting to rise and if this is not being at least influanced by the large numbers joining the jobseekers on a daily basis from the migrant quarter then their additions to our communities must obviously be working on the knock as my old gran used to say.
Marc
Marc
Frank - for those imigrants who legitimately work in low paid jobs yes they may contribute in taxes (albeit a small amount for the time they've been here) but what about society in general the real backbone of this country. More segregation, more isolated communities because all they want to do is earn money to send home (a general statement I know but probably true in most instances). We need a moderate amount of people (controlled) to enter this country (a great but rapidly sinking country) to integrate into society contribute in both monetary ways and social ways and to pay their way and make a full contribute to our society. 'When in Rome do what the Romans do' a saying my Grandma used to say to me (God rest her sole) - however its more like when in Great Britian do as you please and get as much as you want.
With regards to Rich's posting about the British working abroad, there are alot of British younger people (Gosh I'm now making myself sound old) working in Bars etc in hot holiday spots working and selling clubs etc to tourists and yes these people are probably exploiting that country's rules, but from past experience the money they earn is little and what they earn is probably given in accomodation but its ploughing the money back into that community and not being sent home (probably adding to their student debt). If they get ill do they get free medical treatment and all the social benefits, if they don't earn money do they get state handouts - no they have to come home
With regards to Rich's posting about the British working abroad, there are alot of British younger people (Gosh I'm now making myself sound old) working in Bars etc in hot holiday spots working and selling clubs etc to tourists and yes these people are probably exploiting that country's rules, but from past experience the money they earn is little and what they earn is probably given in accomodation but its ploughing the money back into that community and not being sent home (probably adding to their student debt). If they get ill do they get free medical treatment and all the social benefits, if they don't earn money do they get state handouts - no they have to come home
Well now 120 postings and not a moderator in sight are we not all doing very well, I wonder if they are watching??
Just a good debate, no rudeness, no personal attacks,
Regards Liz
Just a good debate, no rudeness, no personal attacks,
Regards Liz
G
Guest
Are we not losing sight of the point of the thread? It is obvious that successive governments for whatever reasons, have put us in a situation where it is impossible to maintain the economic viability of the country. As I have previously posted, the reasons for this are complex, and to try and find any individual group or fator as the sole cause of blame is meaningless.
Like it or not we are in the EC, and the chances of getting out are somewhat lower than the proverbial snowflake freezing in hell.
Rather than try and apportion statistics to the number of legal EC workers and what they may or may not be costing this country, do we not need to exert pressure on those who are supposed to serve us to ensure that people who work prosper and those who don't no longer enjoy the benefits currently available under existing legislation; but receive enough to live and NOT all the extras that can be milked from the State and the protection of whatever group decides they are going to represent human rights/civil liberties/equal opportunities etc. etc.
IF they are not legal immigrants then they should be entitled to nothing and any employer taking advantage of such people should be prosecuted and made responsible for all costs including the cost of repatriation.
Like it or not we are in the EC, and the chances of getting out are somewhat lower than the proverbial snowflake freezing in hell.
Rather than try and apportion statistics to the number of legal EC workers and what they may or may not be costing this country, do we not need to exert pressure on those who are supposed to serve us to ensure that people who work prosper and those who don't no longer enjoy the benefits currently available under existing legislation; but receive enough to live and NOT all the extras that can be milked from the State and the protection of whatever group decides they are going to represent human rights/civil liberties/equal opportunities etc. etc.
IF they are not legal immigrants then they should be entitled to nothing and any employer taking advantage of such people should be prosecuted and made responsible for all costs including the cost of repatriation.
No Colin, don't spoil it, we may have a record here, we could be in PC Mag. longest running topic no mods. needed. Liz
They could all go moonlighting hehehe
They could all go moonlighting hehehe
Peter.... I do not agree with illegal workers I have said that repeately. Illegals do not deserve the benefits we enjoy. How that are treated is not down to me. But the fact people work here and support family back home is of no real concequence.If Tax and NI contributions have been paid and if the work they have done produces something for either our benefit like builders or products for export the profit made from the exported product is more than the guy would send home...If not then the company is working at a loss! If a guy earns
Rather than issue cash handouts to the unemployed legal/illegal immigrant why not issue vouchers which are only redeamable against goods/rent/electricity etc., and cannot be sent home. I know they will try to sell these vouchers on the black market but it will be a deferrant to some of the scroungers within that society.
In Wales?No Colin, don't spoil it, we may have a record here, we could be in PC Mag. longest running topic no mods. needed. Liz
They could all go moonlighting hehehe
Too true A N. I'm not really into politics (or am I??). Wasn't there something floated around regarding a referendum on the EU and joining the single currency. I'm on dodgy ground now as I'm not sure of my facts but as Lord Braykewynde has said earlier perhaps joining the EU is the worse thing this country as ever done.
Just like my son when he was stuck in France with no money ... we had to pay by credit card to get him home.Frank - for those imigrants who legitimately work in low paid jobs yes they may contribute in taxes (albeit a small amount for the time they've been here) but what about society in general the real backbone of this country. More segregation, more isolated communities because all they want to do is earn money to send home (a general statement I know but probably true in most instances). We need a moderate amount of people (controlled) to enter this country (a great but rapidly sinking country) to integrate into society contribute in both monetary ways and social ways and to pay their way and make a full contribute to our society. 'When in Rome do what the Romans do' a saying my Grandma used to say to me (God rest her sole) - however its more like when in Great Britian do as you please and get as much as you want.
With regards to Rich's posting about the British working abroad, there are alot of British younger people (Gosh I'm now making myself sound old) working in Bars etc in hot holiday spots working and selling clubs etc to tourists and yes these people are probably exploiting that country's rules, but from past experience the money they earn is little and what they earn is probably given in accomodation but its ploughing the money back into that community and not being sent home (probably adding to their student debt). If they get ill do they get free medical treatment and all the social benefits, if they don't earn money do they get state handouts - no they have to come home
I think they do, or used to , Colin, to those who spent their money on drink rather than food for themselves or their family, not all but those who have a health problem. Liz
Housing Benefit cheques are/or can be payed directly to the Landlord, they used to pay it to the tennants but some used to spend on drink. Liz
The best Frenchman was President De Gaull as he stopped Churchil joining the EU in the 1950s. Why Edward Heath took us into such an organisation God only knows. We won the first and second world wars and now look at us - the laughing stock of the EU. We act and Germany and France jump on us straight away but they appear to be getting away with murder. The new French president has said that he will endeavour to get his country back on line and ignore EU policy if necessary. Why can't we adopt this attitude or are we too scared of the other member states. Before long the eastern block countries will be so strong within the EU they will be dictating to us. we will end up as a Soviet State of Europe.
Where does Labours minimum wage come into play.
Surely the minimum wage should provide the basis of a feasible living wage to attract all indigenous people in to work.
Jack Straw said that if you want to be served in a cafe or restaurant you will have to accept migrant works who will work for minimum wages.
If this is the case surely the minimum wage is not workable as it does not provide enough financial support for many.
As cost of living in its basic form is the same for all, how do migrant workers cope in a strange country as outsiders.
Does governement believe they have some magic formula or that they should live in poverty standard living conditions or is the benefits system story being white washed ?
Ria
Surely the minimum wage should provide the basis of a feasible living wage to attract all indigenous people in to work.
Jack Straw said that if you want to be served in a cafe or restaurant you will have to accept migrant works who will work for minimum wages.
If this is the case surely the minimum wage is not workable as it does not provide enough financial support for many.
As cost of living in its basic form is the same for all, how do migrant workers cope in a strange country as outsiders.
Does governement believe they have some magic formula or that they should live in poverty standard living conditions or is the benefits system story being white washed ?
Ria
On the subject of the French, hubby left home at the age of 16years of age to join the French Foreign Legion, long story, but he did not at the time, but whilst he was in there, he said back then you had to work 6months to claim any dole money, then you could claim, no work, no claim, eventually he did join, and served 5years. Liz
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