p.i.r inspection

[rayc]

"No it does not, the changing of the cylinder is exempt from the gas regulations.

The changing of the pigtail or supply hose is not exempt however"

Come on quote the Regulation and section that specifically requires a Certified Gas Engineer to replace the pigtail. Most caravan dealers use the salesperson who just says "Propane or Calor" when you arrive to collect your new van.

 

[rayc]

"No it does not, the changing of the cylinder is exempt from the gas regulations.

The changing of the pigtail or supply hose is not exempt however"

Come on quote the Regulation and section that specifically requires a Certified Gas Engineer to replace the pigtail. Most caravan dealers use the salesperson who just says "Propane or Calor" when you arrive to collect your new van.

Meant Propane or Butane of course.

 

[forestgump]

will this start a new trade trend in second hand caravans like the

 

[Sproket]

You can put your own word's to this http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz237/Sproket_01/233400002_4bb4a4c71f.jpg )

 

[Sproket]

You can put your own word's to this http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz237/Sproket_01/233400002_4bb4a4c71f.jpg )

Opps Take a look here

 

[Sproket]

Quick link Take a look here

 

[forestgump]

is that the ncc going to the nec lol.

 

[Heethers]

Ray C you absolutely correct picked my new van up in October 08 at discover Warrington, the sales man fitted the pigtail and hose which l had to pay for the pigtail l mean, when questioned him fitting the pigtail, is answer all salesmen do it, would have thought it would have been done when they did the pre service checks l told him

No it was their job to do it when the customer picked the caravan up, as they would not know what gas they were using.

As an ex compliance person working for the second biggest Pharmaceutical company in the UK this slaps of OTT by the NCC, l have never heard of having to strip out appliances to this degree even in the industry where l worked and by the way that was the most stringent anywhere having to deal with the FDA.

Looks like another one from rip off Britain. If this comes to pass may as well pack it in rather than pay rogues

 

[dougie_374468830]

I am back here after a week or so and am astonished this thread is still going.good read though.

I must ask who is charging

 

[Heethers]

Dougie l am not saying you don't have PIR, its understanding what needs to be checked, from l have read it seems they are way over the top on what is required.

Technicians are quoting 4 hours due to removing all accessories in the van, that's rubbish, test equipment today can tell you if the equipment is ok or not.

The NCC should look to what's necessary and what's not before they recommend anything.

Ask for Mandelson all he is after is creating jobs at any cost and to hell what it destroys in the process.

We were told as a company to implement the Disabled Discrimination Act (DDA for short) to the letter by HMG, not so when you actually read what was needed to be done and that's the same with a PIR, there are some who are interpreting the test has a full strip down of the electrical system, if so you may as well scrap the van and have another built, to me that will decimate the caravan industry, but typical of Mandelson and G/B's government implement and to hell with the consequences to British Industry.

 

[ANTHONYB1]

Hi everyone, Browsing through this months CCC mag I saw a item about approved caravan workshops.

Whilst reading this it stated that the approval workshop scheme was devised by the caravan club,the CCC and the NCC,but now both the clubs have left the day to day running of the scheme to the NCC. Do you think they knew that this was coming,and jumped ship.

Anthony.

 

[Parksy]

I can't believe that this thread is still going on.

I might have been responsible for the

 

[Guest]

Couldn't read all the post far too many, but being a tight arse it occurred to me [hopefully not been said already]If this pir test is to be compulsary then so be it.

Note to myself.... make sure the tester/service engineer you use is one willing to give you a 3 year certificate [there will always be someone willing to do that] , and not just one year.

 

[rayc]

quote Parksy "I'm guessing that a 'Code 4' is some sort of refusal to issue a certificate or a prohibition notice of some sort".

Remember it is an Inspection: "The purpose of a periodic inspection and test is to codify and report the level of risk the electrical installation poses to the user".

These are the categories:

ELECTRICAL RISK

Essentially, with electrical risk, i.e. the likelihood of harm, there are four recognized levels and these are codified as:

- Code 1: requires urgent attention

- Code 2: requires improvement

- Code 3: requires further investigation

- Code 4: does not comply (but is not a safety risk)

The purpose of a periodic inspection and test is to codify and report the level of risk the electrical installation poses to the user. For instance, where the inspector identifies a code 1 risk this indicates an imminent threat of death or fire 'WHICH MUST BE MADE SAFE' before the installation is handed back to the customer.

 

[dougie_374468830]

A code 4 is just an advisory that your wiring (or whatever) does not comply with current regulations,there is a similar thing for gas as well.

Parksy, the quote of mine you used sums up exactly why pir`s need to be implemented as most vans do not comply with current regs(since 15th edition).

The actual testing is very straight forward and should take around an hour and a half. It is the finding and disconnecting that takes the time,most modern (2000 on) vans have plugs or connectors at appliances and i tend just to switch lights off. However there are little things like the LEDs in sockets that upset the insulation test and must be removed.

All of you that asked a sparky who told you he could do it in an hour, I bet you never told him he also had to play game of hunt the thimble before he started the test.

Therefore id like to set you all a challenge.

Time yourself and starting at the 240v consumer unit trace all the wiring to each circuit, find the appliance connector (do not disconnect). so you have the water heater,space heater,battery charger,fridge,lighting circuit,wiring to all sockets not just 3-pin (how many have LED's),possibly cooker,microwave and any extras.Allow an hour and a half for the testing itself then reassemble all covers/cushions that you have had to lift to find cables. Oh,i almost forgot, you need to trace the earth bonding throughout the caravan as well

Ill lay odds not one of you will do it yet still tell us we`re having a laugh when told the test will take 4 hrs

 

[Parksy]

Do regulations apply retrospectively?

If a caravan complied with regulations in force when it was designed and built does it now have to comply with 17th Edition regulations introduced since then or does the proposal only apply to caravans built after a certain date?

If most caravans do not comply with 17th edition regulations then how will a 'code 4' affect a caravan owner who wants to use ehu?

If the code 4 does not have any affect what's the point of it?

Will the site owner refuse to allow the caravanner to use an electric pitch? I'm sure that the site owners will be very pleased when their income falls dramatically as a result of something that is neither wanted or needed by anybody apart from possibly the NCC.

 

[dougie_374468830]

the regs apply from the 15th edition which was in the early 80`s i believe

 

[Sproket]

Just found this for info :

1981 The 15th Edition of the IEE Wiring Regulations launched

1991 16th Edition of the IEE Wiring Regulations published (adopted as the BS in 1992) Electricity at Work Regs. (Northern Ireland) come fully into being

2004 Part P of the Building Regulations becomes law BS 7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations (Incorporating Amendments No 1: 2002 and No 2: 2004), The IEE Wiring Regulations (Sixteenth Edition)

2007 17th Edition of the IEE Wiring Regulations is scheduled to be issued on January 1st 2008 and comes into effect 6 months later.

 

[dougie_374468830]

I have absolutely no idea how this is going to pan out. At the moment i am happy to have customers sign the disclaimer and see how the NCC & BH&HPA go about implementing it

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Doughie, at what stage would you ask a customer to sign the disclaimer? I assume you would ask before undertaking the service.

If the customer refuses to sign, will you turn him away and lose the job?

 

[dougie_374468830]

I ask the customer before work begins. I will never tell them what they should or shouldnt be doing,only advise them. I always apologise and blame the NCC for foisting this upon us, explain what it is etc whilst carefully watching for signs that im about to get both barrels. I am annoyed that we get put in this position, but there we are. happily i havent encountered any "get orf my land" yet

 

[Guest]

Dougie. I think you have been quite honest with your responses on this issue, but cannot help thinking just like a car MOT that actually only proves worthiness at that exact time and not even a week later,Why given regs that mean you could issue a doc for 3 years, why are you only going to offer a 1 year doc?

After all even your 1 year doc, means sweet FA a week down the line.

Like parky said, looks like a very good money maker, for very little outlay, as

 

[dougie_374468830]

The advice given to me on various courses (not just caravans)is that i cannot forsee what usage the caravan (or machine)has or dangerous occurrences that may occur between inspections so we test annually.

However, i think a little common sense needs to be applied in that if a caravan is presented for test at three years old and has obviously been looked after, is in good condition and shows good readings i would have no issue in a writing report valid for 2 years (never three) but if the van is say 7 years old it would be for a year regardless

 

[James3]

Very interesting topic ! at least I now have an understanding of PIR testing.As with most things I will wait to see when I actually need to have it carried out. If it is a legal requirement and or sites will only let you use an electric point if you have a PIR cert. then yes I will just go along with it.Its just like the annual service really I have it done more to satisfy the requirements of the manufacturers guarantee.

 

[rayc]

The advice given to me on various courses (not just caravans)is that i cannot forsee what usage the caravan (or machine)has or dangerous occurrences that may occur between inspections so we test annually.

However, i think a little common sense needs to be applied in that if a caravan is presented for test at three years old and has obviously been looked after, is in good condition and shows good readings i would have no issue in a writing report valid for 2 years (never three) but if the van is say 7 years old it would be for a year regardless

That's why Caravan Dealers will not get the majority of inspections if they become compulsory. Most caravans travel much less than 5,000 miles a year and under 10 years old an inspection should only be required every 3 years. What is so different that manufacturers will issue a 3 year cert? They do not have any more control over the use of the van than you do.