p.i.r inspection

[thursdays child]

Pat your every word is true and we shall of course comply.The idea of giving up our caravan trips is not an option.We will all do what we always do "go kicking and screaming" but GO we will nevertheless.The next hurdle we will have to contend with will be a road tax of some description.This something that we have been prepared for is it not? It is like all addictions.Once it has hold of you it is very difficult to find your limit!!!!

Thursdays Child

 

[ANTHONYB1]

Well everyone,if this becomes the rule we can always take a step back into the past and install gas mantles and tell them to stick their EHUs.

I for one will not pay for this service which is being thrust upon us,as most of my vanning is done on DA and THS CCC sites.

Caravanning is no longer a cheap pastime,the cost of storage insurance,fuel,bottle gas,site fees and of course the tow car must all be taken into account outgoings against enjoyment.Will the cons soon outweigh the pros,we will have to wait and see.

How is it only now that this test has become to our knowledge,was it only just leeked out hoping that the public would ignore it or what.

It reminds me of the shambles that followed the introduction of the HIP rules and fees with house sales.

Anthony

 

[Gafferbill]

.....Speaking purely technically the whole exercise seems pointless!

An EHU on a campsite has come from an electrical distribution system that has been checked and maintained on a regular basis.

Safety comes from the campsite having the failsafe built into their supply.

It has to have earth leakage protection and overload protection.

Thus if there is a problem in the caravan then the supply should be cut off in milliseconds even if the onboard caravan trip fails.

I experienced the campsite supply tripping out on a CL near Leeds.

I was using an electric toaster at the time but could find nothing wrong with it.

Two months later the same thing happened in France whilst using the same toaster.

I destroyed the toaster to prevent further use and disposed of it in the rubbish bin.

It is worth noting that both campsites had their system protected from faulty equipment, whether that is a caravan or the appliances within.

They do not need bits of paper provided by their paying guests!

 

[dougie_374468830]

.....Speaking purely technically the whole exercise seems pointless!

An EHU on a campsite has come from an electrical distribution system that has been checked and maintained on a regular basis.

Safety comes from the campsite having the failsafe built into their supply.

It has to have earth leakage protection and overload protection.

Thus if there is a problem in the caravan then the supply should be cut off in milliseconds even if the onboard caravan trip fails.

I experienced the campsite supply tripping out on a CL near Leeds.

I was using an electric toaster at the time but could find nothing wrong with it.

Two months later the same thing happened in France whilst using the same toaster.

I destroyed the toaster to prevent further use and disposed of it in the rubbish bin.

It is worth noting that both campsites had their system protected from faulty equipment, whether that is a caravan or the appliances within.

They do not need bits of paper provided by their paying guests!

Inreply to those that think European vans will get off free. how many of you know that in some Euro countries caravans are treated as seperate vehicles and registered, taxed and tested. hence you will see a foreign caravan with a different number plate to the car and a sticker in the window to prove it is legal.

So they will have a pir and wont be freeloading

 

[thursdays child]

Dougie,is this the future for UK caravans do you think?Will an MOT become part of the separate registration system instituted in some EU states?How much expense can the average family here afford, to carry on caravanning.Are we becoming victims of our own success?Is the perception now that we have an inexhaustible supply of money due to long waiting lists for new caravans.They did the same thing with cars and now we have no car industry.Please leave the caravan industry alone whoever YOU are!!!Personally if it becomes too expensive to tour then we will pitch our van and surely this negates the impact on the caravan.Or another option is to keep it in France and spend our pensions there.PASS ME ANOTHER GOAT cos this is going to get a few other folks goats too.

Thursdays Child

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Yes

On 6th August 2009 the NCC issued a notice to all Approved Workshops regarding Periodic Inspection Reports for Electrical Installations.

Also the Caravan club site now ask for a PIR CERT before you can connect up to the eleck hook up.

Also M O Ts will be coming in very soon for braked trailers.

the E U has stated this.

 

[Chrisbee]

Who is this test meant to safeguard, the caravan occupier or others on the site, and from what?

 

[Hamer_5041128]

Stephen,

You state "Also the Caravan Club site now ask for a PIR CERT before you can connect up to the electric hook up."

Where did you obtain this information? At present this is incorrect.

If it was correct Caravan Club sites would be empty as no members have a PIR CERTIFICATE at the present time.

As and when a PIR CERTIFICATE does become law, time is going to have to be given to allow caravanners to have their caravans checked and modified if necessary,in order to obtain a PIR CERTIFICATE.

Regarding MOT's coming in via the EU for braked trailers,my current understanding is that caravans may be excluded.

Hamer

 

[Sproket]

PIR SERVICE DISCLAIMER FORM

The Inspector who has issued this disclaimer to you is trained to carry out inspection and testing and to issue a Periodic Inspection Report, based on the requirements of BS 7671:2008.

In respect of any legal requirements, the Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations (ESQR) 2002, Regulation 25 clearly requires that an electrical installation cannot be connected to the UK public supply unless the supply provider (the Distributor) is satisfied the installation complies with the relevant provisions of the British Standard - BS 7671:2008 - also referred to as 17th Edition Wiring Regulations.

The Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate makes clear the need to comment on the condition of the existing installation. This is an implied term requiring the issue of a Periodic Report.

PERIODIC INSPECTION AND TEST

Beyond the normal service there is a need to inspect and test the original electrical installation of the caravan or motorhome to ensure the electrical installation is satisfactory for continued use. This condition survey is referred to as a 'PERIODIC INSPECTION AND TEST' and is subject to the issue to the customer of a: 'PERIODIC INSPECTION REPORT'.

HAZARD AND RISK

Periodic inspection and testing is based upon hazard and risk:

- HAZARD: anything with the potential to cause harm

- RISK: the likelihood that the harm will be realised

ELECTRICAL HAZARD

Essentially, when it comes to caravan electrical installations, there are only two hazards, viz:

- Electric shock and burns

- Fire

All electrical installations are hazardous. In other words, they have the potential to cause harm of electric shock and burns and/or fire. The purpose of a periodic inspection and test is to quantify the risk of the hazard being realised.

ELECTRICAL RISK

Essentially, with electrical risk, i.e. the likelihood of harm, there are four recognized levels and these are codified as:

- Code 1: requires urgent attention

- Code 2: requires improvement

- Code 3: requires further investigation

- Code 4: does not comply (but is not a safety risk)

The purpose of a periodic inspection and test is to codify and report the level of risk the electrical installation poses to the user. For instance, where the inspector identifies a code 1 risk this indicates an imminent threat of death or fire 'WHICH MUST BE MADE SAFE' before the installation is handed back to the customer.

The level of risk identified in the periodic inspection and test (other than a Code 1) will determine the action to be taken, and the advice to be given to the customer (the user of the installation).

The issue of a Periodic Inspection Report does not carry the same legal provisions for safety as a certificate, but the inspector must show, so far as is reasonable, that all foreseeable risks are identified and that recommendations to remove such risks have been given. This signed disclaimer confirms the customer has understood the need for issuance of a Periodic Inspection Report but has declined the issuance of said document along with any recommendations made by the inspector to rectify any hazard or risk.

Without prejudice

E&OE PIR Service Disclaimer Form/090731

 

[vernon]

How come this topic isn't mentioned on any other Forums?

 

[Dustydog]

Stephen

We've been on a number of CC sites since 6th August 2009 and no one has ever asked us for a certificate. Initially I thought it was a wind up until Damian did his post.

None of my current bookings with CC have given any indication of a PIR cert requirement.

CC have said nothing at all as far as I know.

Before we go any further it will be very useful if C&CC and CC could issue a statement please. Maybe this could done via our Nigel Donnelly or one of his colleagues.

And if it turns out European visitors get a some sort of amnesty I'll be joining Val and Thursday's Child's GOATS.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Sproket]

Frequency of Inspection and Test

It is the duty of the engineer carrying out a periodic inspection and test, on a Caravan or Park, to establish when the next periodic inspection is required. This will be based on the condition, age and type of installation.

To recommend when the next periodic inspection and test is due for installations in Caravans, the engineer will also need to take into account the use of the Caravan, and the mileage covered for a Touring Caravan or Motorhome: this will then be reviewed at that time. This period will be not less than 3 years and in some cases could be 1 year.

For Park installations, see the NCC guide for ESQCR safe management for complete advice, but the PIR test frequencies are:

Touring Caravan and Motorhome pitches - annually

Holiday Homes and Park Homes - at least every 3 years

Overhead installations - annually

Inspections on Used Caravans

It is recommended that each time a used Caravan is sold commercially an inspection is carried out and a PIR issued. This is considered by the NCC to be 'Best Practice' for the industry. It should be noted that in the event of any safety issues with a Caravan subsequent to its sale, the supplying dealer could be held liable for any injury or damages caused under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 and the European Product Liability Directive 85/374/EEC.

CITO Training

The minimum standard for a Competent Person for PIR inspection on Caravans is the certificate "Electrical Competence for Touring Caravans & Motorhomes" issued by the caravan industry training organisation (CITO). This CITO course is the only industry recognised training for electrical competency.

The Disclaimer Form

When a PIR has been advised by a workshop or inspector and this service is declined by the customer, to formally record that the service has been offered and declined, the workshop can use the Electrical Disclaimer form.

This should be completed in the presence of the customer and signed by both parties.

The signed copy is given to the customer and a duplicate copy kept to record the agreement between the workshop and the customer.

Yours Faithfully,

Martin Perman

Encl.- PIR SERVICE DISCLAIMER FORM

 

[Sproket]

I have just read the above post i have put on and this stands out like a sore thumb

Touring Caravan and Motorhome pitches - annually

So are they going to want to do it every year ???

 

[Sproket]

I have just read the above post i have put on and this stands out like a sore thumb

Touring Caravan and Motorhome pitches - annually

So are they going to want to do it every year ???

OOOOOOOOOOOOops thats the pitch (

 

[thursdays child]

What are the likely implications when signing the disclaimer and getting insurance cover.At the moment it is not a legal requirement to have a caravan serviced by a registered engineer.When taking a van to France it should have been serviced during the previous 14 months.How will this new regulation affect warranties given by dealers?The other BIG question is DAMP and the effects on electrics.Where does the responsibility lie in the case of poorly constructed caravans that are out of the makers warranty period.GOD HELP US ALL AND PASS THE SALT!!!How many dealerships have kept quiet the fact that their engineers are taking the relevant training for this test.Most importantly WHY?We would not have been aware of this but for Michael and his service tech.

Thursdays Child

 

[Chrisbee]

So my caravan passes the p.i.r. inspection, what's to stop me using an unsafe portable electrical item in it?

 

[ANTHONYB1]

I agree with you there,this is the first that I have heard of of this so called safety check,its been well kept secret from the caravanning public,I wonder why?.

Clarkson must be laughing his socks off.

Anthony

 

[Hamer_5041128]

Sproket,

We are getting into the realms of fantasy. For an engineer to recommend when the next pir should take place "he will have to take into account the use of the touring caravan and the mileage covered." "This period will be not less than 3 years and in some cases could be 1 year."

He will have no idea how the caravan has been used.

He will have no idea on the mileage covered.

Therefore will have no information on which to base his recommendation.

Unless of course. as part of the big brother act,we will all have spies installed in our caravans.

Nowhere does it state the timescale for its introduction, bearing in mind how long it is taking to get all the dealers engineers trained.

I am fully in favour of this test providing the legistlation is clear and fair to both dealer and caravanner.

Hamer

 

[Sproket]

Hammer

I have only this copied from the link which i posted near to the begining of this thread, there is more so please take a look

i also asked Damion a question about it, there is also a reply from Reads caravans.....all did was Google it ....

 

[Sproket]

Copy / paste this

http://www.nationalcaravan.co.uk/home/index.asp?id=2&rid=444
or follow this LINK

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Stephen,

You state "Also the Caravan Club site now ask for a PIR CERT before you can connect up to the electric hook up."

Where did you obtain this information? At present this is incorrect.

If it was correct Caravan Club sites would be empty as no members have a PIR CERTIFICATE at the present time.

As and when a PIR CERTIFICATE does become law, time is going to have to be given to allow caravanners to have their caravans checked and modified if necessary,in order to obtain a PIR CERTIFICATE.

Regarding MOT's coming in via the EU for braked trailers,my current understanding is that caravans may be excluded.

Hamer

Your now get a PIR cert when you purchase a new caravan.

Also when you purchase a second user caravan.

MOT on caravan in uk is going through at present time scedule such as every 2 years as in Germany to be comfirmed.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

People People

Things are changing in the Caravan/Motorhome world there are big changes coming in you must try and keep up. Legislation on all this is on the web for all to see.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Touring caravans and motor homes are pretty aggressive environments. They are subjected to some very severe vibrations when moved, and long periods of inactivity where corrosion and other deteriorations can set in, and yet despite these obvious unfavourable conditions, regular safety checks have not been compulsory.

I am in favour of formal checks on the two systems that have the potential to be so hazardous - Gas and Electricity.

With gas, in most cases you will get some warning of a problem - either the smell or a flame that does not look right, but with electricity there is rarely any forewarning. So a formal inspection properly carried out is going to be the most effective way of identifying potential and actual hazards.

I have to agree with the strong view about the time to perform the PIR, 4 hours seems unprecedented. I hope that there is to be some form of collation of results, and that if certain things that are checked are found to have very low incidents of failure, that a pragmatic review of the test regime will take place and those items removed from the test.

To assist with the PIR, manufacturers should consider how they run wiring looms, so they can be easily accessed for inspection. Perhaps Swift and Bailey who do communicate on this forum may wish to add their response to that.

 

[forestgump]

will a trailor tent need this if useing ehu.

 

[Hamer_5041128]

Sproket,

Thank you for the LINK. I have saved the file and will read it tomorrow when the old brain should be clearer and more alert!!

thanks,

Hamer