p.i.r inspection

[Parksy]

With the greatest respect to all the faults listed by Reads ought to be noticed during routine servicing anyway.

I'm beginning to wonder what I'm getting for my money now when I pay

 

[readcaravans]

ian

all caravans tested were part exchanges with no service history with us at all. it was for this reason that these particular caravans were chosen as probably the worst examples to work on. and in most cases these fault were very clearly aftermarket defects due to incorrect or lack of maintenance, ignorance and bad DIY.

before the course certain items simply would have not even been looked for, but with the correct training and awareness now, we have a greater knowledge and understanding.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Mr Read

The 14 examples you mention are mainly serious design defects, shoddy workmanship in the first place or inferior materials resulting in premature failure.

I suspect a Judge would take a very dim view of the dealer and or manufacturer if any of these faults became subject of litigation .

How on earth can any NCC approved dealer allow such faults to be passed onto the public?? If I was a dealer or manufacturer I would be reading the small print of my insurance policies now!

Lastly please tell me why the EHU RCB doesn't trip , or does it , with any of the 14 faults mentioned?

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[ANTHONYB1]

Hello everyone,I,m wondering now if a mouse trap will be included as standard,or as as a optional extra on all new vans.

Anthony.

 

[readcaravans]

dustydog,

i shouldnt need to explain what impacts these faults have on a RCB, to anyone has completed the training offered by CITO. and needless to say these faults were corrected and not ignored and passed on to customers as you so incorrectly suggested.

i think i have said all i need to say on this subject, which has proved to be very unpopular and contentious. i commented on this thread to pass on first hand experience and knowledge of the PIR and not to have my company name slurred or ridiculed.

 

[DeliDave]

this reminds me of the 'Towing mirror'posting where we were told we had to buy new mirrors to stay legal to tow,later shown to be pure scaremongering.I am a member of CC and C&CC and have seen nothing in either magazine ,think it is absolute rubbish preying on worried owners'mouse could cause death in caravan'lmao

 

[machighlander]

i think you should all give a bit of slack to read caravans posts, they were made to give us outsiders an idea of what is involved with this and some good reasons as to why it is being considered.

 

[DeliDave]

I think its quite funny that I pay around

 

[Parksy]

I appreciate the efforts of Reads Caravans to inform us about the NCC guidelines and PIR testing and I'm sorry that forum members natural scepticism is being taken to mean that Reads are being ridiculed.

A forum is a place where discussions take place and different points of view can be aired.

Because not everybody agrees with or accepts at face value what is being said about PIR testing it does not mean that those who advocate PIR testing are being ridiculed or insulted.

For those who think that this topic is 'unpopular and contentious' now this is only one small caravan forum. When news of this reaches the wider caravan using / buying public 'unpopular and contentious' won't begin to describe the reactions of those turned away from sites or asked to stump up a large and as yet unspecified amount of money for what will be seen by many as an unnecessary procedure.

I'd still like to know if these regulations are retrospective or if as I suspect the PIR test will only apply to caravans built after June 30th 2008.

 

[forestgump]

as i said i can be all above board but is the site it must be a verey stiff check for a site to pass ,or will it be a brush overe,

 

[Damian]

To answer Parksy, the PIR will be required, as I have been led to believe from the NCC and whilst undertaking the course, for ALL touring caravans and motorhomes, ie those who tow to a site and back again, over 3 years of age.

The initial Inspection certificate lasts 3 years from the manufacturer.

The rules are slightly different for permanenly sited vans, be they permanently sited "touring" type vans, or "static" type vans.

 

[Damian]

As it was me that posted originally to answer the query by Michael, and giving the information which I was given whilst undertaking the Test and Inspect course, I am disgusted at some of the posts directed at Read Caravans.

It is NOT his fault that the rules are being tightened, it is NOT my fault, nor is any other Approved Workshops fault.

It is not popular with any of the workshops as it means other areas will be put under much more pressure, notably for fixed workshops, space to do other servicing and repairs, and for mobile workshops, the reduction in being able to respond as quickly as they would like to, to owners with problems on arrival at sites.

The pressure put on workshops by the NCC to complete staff training by the end of 2009 or be removed from the Approved Register was enormous, and even more so for Mobile units.

The regulations have been in existance for some years, but have not been enforced, but with a radical shakeup within the NCC, mainly due to owners complaining of the standard of work by some workshops, the rules are being imposed now.

As with most things now, being part of the EU is meaning new rulings and compliance, which is going to cost each of us more in the future.

 

[dougie_374468830]

Hi Reads, I remember that twin axle it was a horror show. I got the abbey and it wasnt too bad.

The pir subject certainly has touched a few raw nerves. I do know all the dealers round here have done training courses. We will just have to wait and see what the ncc`s next move will be as far as publicizing the thing. Im sure it will be fun anyway

 

[ANTHONYB1]

Hello everyone again,So is this just a new regulation from the NCC as a follow up because of bad press about levels of dealer service,or a ruling by the EEC, again poking their noses where is don,t belong.

Anthony.

 

[Damian]

NO, it is NOT a NEW RULE. or regulation from the NCC.

It IS enforcement of existing BS regulations;

I re post the relevant regulation, which was posted right at the beginning.

17th Edition wiring regulations (BS7671:2008), regulation 622.1, stipulates that a periodic inspection and test of an electrical installation should be carried out at at frequency determined with regard to the type of installation and equipment.

In regulation 721.514 there is direct reference to this subject with regard to caravans and motorhomes.

 

[Jennifer_374461363]

I would like to ask.....

Can anyone take this training course to be qualified to be a tester? Or do you require previous qualifications?

How much does the course cost to get qualified?

 

[Damian]

Jennfier, the particular course I , and others have referred to , is specific to those working in Approved Workshops.

The cost is around

 

[ProfJohnL]

Note for Ian,

The PIR will be a requirement for Touring Caravans, and this is where the bulk of this thread relates. The regulations you have pointed to ONLY apply to static caravans and mobile homes, where the electrical supply will be most likely hard wired and not through a plug and socket.

This is supported by the fact that caravan dealers workshops are being trained to perform the PIR, and clearly a static or mobile home would not be taken to a dealers fro this work to be carried out.

 

[Damian]

I should have added that you do need prior electrical experience and a good knowledge of the theory.

 

[Heethers]

Damian are you telling me that you don't need to be timed served electrician, just need electrical experience and good knowledge of electrical theory.

I who was timed served engineer would definitely not employ any electrician without full qualifications, which would be NVQ 3 and minimum of 4 years on the job training, anything less would be ridiculous and would mean the PIR was not worth the paper it was written on.

All industries work now on the NVQ system, in my time it was City and Guilds certification.

That's the minimum experience l would want from a person working on my caravan doing PIR testing on 240 volt and 12v systems, purely for my own families safety, not some one with a electrical experience and electrical knowledge of the theory, l have some of that but would not even consider doing a PIR tests even with

 

[Dustydog]

Good morning Mr Read

I think you may have misunderstood my points.

Firstly I have absolutely nothing but prasise for your efforts and contributions on this forum.

I never suggested YOU had anything to do with the origin of the 14 faults you mentioned.

Take for example items 1,2,4,5,6. To me a layman it would seem all faults were present in the caravans when they left the maker.

All the new caravans I have had came with a signed statement of electrical conformity usualy issued by an employee of the manufacturer.

Are you saying ALL the 14 faults developed over the period of the years mentioned? If yes then maybe I misunderstood the relevance of your point and apologise now.

Incidentally nowhere have I ever or will "slur or ridicule " your company!

Many thanks for all your contributions.

This tape will self destruct in 10 seconds.............

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Damian]

Quote "Damian are you telling me that you don't need to be timed served electrician, just need electrical experience and good knowledge of electrical theory."

No, I am not saying that at all, please do not put twists to my postings which are unfounded.

ALL Approved workshops who undertake caravan servicing , particularly Mobile workshops must be at a minimum C&G qualified.

The PIR test is an extension to that, so no, no one with just a 5 day course can qualify

 

[Surfer]

dustydog,

i shouldnt need to explain what impacts these faults have on a RCB, to anyone has completed the training offered by CITO. and needless to say these faults were corrected and not ignored and passed on to customers as you so incorrectly suggested.

i think i have said all i need to say on this subject, which has proved to be very unpopular and contentious. i commented on this thread to pass on first hand experience and knowledge of the PIR and not to have my company name slurred or ridiculed.

Is this now a cop out? You brought it up and we queried it and now you thrown your toys out the pram?

 

[Surfer]

Sinc when have the NCC been a recognised body that can enforce regulations. They are jsut bean counters, toothless watchdogs which is an insult to dogs and nothing more. They cannot enforce anything. they can only request.

PIRs do not apply to owner user caravans whether they are static or mobile. The PIR would apply to site owners to ensure that their supply is safe.

Reading through this thread it seems that people who have a vested inteerst in charging us for the PIR arethe ones advocating that we shoudl eb charged but they themselves cannot supply concrete proof that a PIR is mandatory on owner user caravans, hence IMHO it is all scare mongering.

PS Why hasn't PC magazine investigated this and supplied info if this PIR is to be enforced and how will the industry be able to cope with over a million caravans that will require a PIR if it is enforced for owner users?

 

[rayc]

NO, it is NOT a NEW RULE. or regulation from the NCC.

It IS enforcement of existing BS regulations;

I re post the relevant regulation, which was posted right at the beginning.

17th Edition wiring regulations (BS7671:2008), regulation 622.1, stipulates that a periodic inspection and test of an electrical installation should be carried out at at frequency determined with regard to the type of installation and equipment.

In regulation 721.514 there is direct reference to this subject with regard to caravans and motorhomes.

I note the word "Should" and that it is not "Must".