p.i.r inspection

[Pat_374304630]

Just a thought.

My lad takes his tent on holiday with us in the summer. He has electric hook up. How would this pir work for him, as some of you said a site could refuse to let him hook up.

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Some people seem to be saying that a caravan should be tested because it is liable to have faults develop because of road vibrations and attack by mice.

Looking at the complexity of a cars electrics how come they function with very little in the way of problems caused by these same road vibrations?

Any house wiring is just as liable to attack by mice, so are we to have a PIR every year on all houses and other buildings?

If I understand one of the points made by Reed Caravans, an important cause of electrical failure is faulty diy repairs and installation. If this is so, why not ban all diy interference with the electrical circuitry on caravans as has been done with the gas installation.

Perhaps that will be the next step, PIR for the gas installation, after all that is subject to the same road vibration and attack by mice as the electrics

 

[ANTHONYB1]

Hi everyone,just a thought but as most of us on this forum,live and breath caravan and use them as much as possilbe.

What about the once a year holiday time campers making the most of their 14 days summer time holidays,rushing to Cornwall and the south coast.DO you think that they are going to be bothered about a PIR test,even if they have heard about,I doubt it.

Do you think that the likes of Haven are going to turn them away because they hav,nt got PIR,I doubt it.

I,m with parksy on this and intend to resist this scam as much as possible.

Anthony.

 

[Northwood]

If manufactures can miss obvious things, think twice about your electrics, If testing gives you piece of mind, its worth

 

[SteveW77]

Hello SteveW

I fully agree, a PIR is a snap shot of eth condition just like an MOT, but I seriously doubt if there is any one who would disagree with the overall benefit the MOT system has had on the safety and conditions of our car stock in the UK.

This may be true, but it is accepted now that 25% of the vehicles on the road have no insurance, let alone an M.O.T. If people can ignore the law over this matter, how will you enforce something like a PIR test. How long will it take before one can by a hooky certificate on the internet.

Steve W

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have tried to explain the reasons why the IEE are making the PIR proposal. I have not said I agree completely with the proposed PIR.

Contrary to the persona I may have projected, I too do have flesh and blood and a limited disposable income, and like most on the forum I do not relish the financial implications of having to have a PIR performed.

I also agree that there has been no substantiated evidence of reoccurring failures of electrical systems in caravans on a scale that warrants the imposition of such an expensive and invasive procedure. In fact it is highly likely that the inspection process is likely to do more damage to systems than the normal wear and tear. I do think the suggested PIR is over the top, and a much simpler and quicker process could be devised to give a high level of confidence in the safety of the system.

A caravan system is not anywhere as complex or extensive as domestic house, The manufacture could easily supply a wiring list with conductor sizes and ratings, and relatively simple tests can confirm the correct polarity of wiring, the effectiveness of the continuous protective conductor, the action of switches and isolators.

What we cant do is ignore the implications of the electricity supply Act, but I think more reasonable and realistic processes need to devised to satisfy the requirement.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all

I am with parksy on this and detect the odour of rat in it all with just a hint of big brother thrown in, yes I do understand johnL's point of view but what about the gas far more dangerious and that is probably next on the list.

I think it is all a step too far, to bring it in to prosective how far are we as the end users perpared to let someone else dictate how we use our vans before we say no more or all sell up and go to B&Bs instead.

at times it seem to me that the policemen are also the poachers so whats next??.

only a qualified electritian can plug in the EHU

or a gas fitter to change a bottle

oh and you will need a locksmith to open and close the doors.

not to mention compulsory MOTs, certificate of servicing, weight certificate, and a compulsory new caravan/trailer test before you can tow it??

ridiculess probably but then so was PIRs 20years ago.

colin

 

[Surfer]

If manufactures can miss obvious things, think twice about your electrics, If testing gives you piece of mind, its worth

 

[Surfer]

I have tried to explain the reasons why the IEE are making the PIR proposal. I have not said I agree completely with the proposed PIR.

Contrary to the persona I may have projected, I too do have flesh and blood and a limited disposable income, and like most on the forum I do not relish the financial implications of having to have a PIR performed.

I also agree that there has been no substantiated evidence of reoccurring failures of electrical systems in caravans on a scale that warrants the imposition of such an expensive and invasive procedure. In fact it is highly likely that the inspection process is likely to do more damage to systems than the normal wear and tear. I do think the suggested PIR is over the top, and a much simpler and quicker process could be devised to give a high level of confidence in the safety of the system.

A caravan system is not anywhere as complex or extensive as domestic house, The manufacture could easily supply a wiring list with conductor sizes and ratings, and relatively simple tests can confirm the correct polarity of wiring, the effectiveness of the continuous protective conductor, the action of switches and isolators.

What we cant do is ignore the implications of the electricity supply Act, but I think more reasonable and realistic processes need to devised to satisfy the requirement.

Well put John and agree generally with your sentiments

 

[Surfer]

I emailed the NCC for an explanation quoting various regulatiosn and relevant sections but have not had a response. Maybe they are so busy trying to fend off inquiries that they cannot find the time to answer.

Either that or they have not realsie the implications of their half baked idea and have misinformed dealers and sub-contractors. I just feel sorry for those that I have splashed out over a

 

[GrahamDerby]

I dont have to have my house tested every 3 years, so do i take it that the caravan industry dont trust their own wireing, is it realy that bad !!!! if so why dont they make it better instead of trying to rip us off again, yearly servicing ,electric tests , insurance and high priced sites, and fuel prices , i think i shall be looking at cutting my costs and go abroad on package holidays theyr a lot cheaper and no agro

 

[Surfer]

I wonder why the NCC have not responded to my email sent to them on Monday? Surely they are not that busy or are they hiding as we have found out the truth and that it is a BIG Con!

 

[forestgump]

ncc are they that lot that [think they are in charge] and in fact they are only actors.

 

[Stella_374451582]

I think people need to take it up with the NCC - they are the ones in control of Caravan Inspections - Approved Technicians are just following there guide lines!

Also has far has a PIR inspection taking up to four hours to complete - what you need to realise is the wiring in your caravan runs underneath furniture - fridge - fire ect!! have you any idea how long it takes to remove these items, inspect your wiring and refit all fixture and fittings!!!

In the long run this inspection is for your safety and also other people on your campsite!

 

[rayc]

I think people need to take it up with the NCC - they are the ones in control of Caravan Inspections - Approved Technicians are just following there guide lines!

Also has far has a PIR inspection taking up to four hours to complete - what you need to realise is the wiring in your caravan runs underneath furniture - fridge - fire ect!! have you any idea how long it takes to remove these items, inspect your wiring and refit all fixture and fittings!!!

In the long run this inspection is for your safety and also other people on your campsite!

NCC are just a trade association they have no legal authority to enforcement any regulations. My French manufactured Motorhome is not NCC approved [or whatever they do to UK vans]. Why should I care what the NCC think?

If you really think that caravan owners are going to let caravan dealers staff loose on their vans to remove fridges, water heaters and space heaters you are not in the real world. My experience as an owner of 3 brand new caravans is not to let dealer staff get anywhere near them.

 

[rayc]

NCC are just a trade association they have no legal authority to enforcement any regulations. My French manufactured Motorhome is not NCC approved [or whatever they do to UK vans]. Why should I care what the NCC think?

If you really think that caravan owners are going to let caravan dealers staff loose on their vans to remove fridges, water heaters and space heaters you are not in the real world. My experience as an owner of 3 brand new caravans is not to let dealer staff get anywhere near them.

 

[rayc]

NCC are just a trade association they have no legal authority to enforcement any regulations. My French manufactured Motorhome is not NCC approved [or whatever they do to UK vans]. Why should I care what the NCC think?

If you really think that caravan owners are going to let caravan dealers staff loose on their vans to remove fridges, water heaters and space heaters you are not in the real world. My experience as an owner of 3 brand new caravans is not to let dealer staff get anywhere near them.

Ps. I am 16th edition qualified and have sppoken to my electrical contractor. They are certified as competent to carry out PIR 's on electricalinstallations of all types. They tell me they can do a caravan in less than an hour and issue a certificate. Caravan dealers, with their CITO trained staff, will not get a look in if owners use their savvy.

 

[Stella_374451582]

NCC are just a trade association they have no legal authority to enforcement any regulations. My French manufactured Motorhome is not NCC approved [or whatever they do to UK vans]. Why should I care what the NCC think?

If you really think that caravan owners are going to let caravan dealers staff loose on their vans to remove fridges, water heaters and space heaters you are not in the real world. My experience as an owner of 3 brand new caravans is not to let dealer staff get anywhere near them.

Clearly you have not had good experiances with dealerships in the past - please do not paint all technicians with the same brush!!!!!!

I think you might find that it is the NCC that are forcing these inspections on the approved technicans to carry out!! So i think you might find they do have authority! You dont have to have this inspection - but will have to sign a declaration to say so!!! And take the risk of being turned away from any campsites that you may use!

 

[SteveW77]

If these P.I.R checks have no legal validitiy, why should anybody bother to have the check done, I would think that the power that be would be better off making professional servicing a matter of law, that has a much higher potential for saving life or injury.

Steve W

 

[Stella_374451582]

Clearly you have not had good experiances with dealerships in the past - please do not paint all technicians with the same brush!!!!!!

I think you might find that it is the NCC that are forcing these inspections on the approved technicans to carry out!! So i think you might find they do have authority! You dont have to have this inspection - but will have to sign a declaration to say so!!! And take the risk of being turned away from any campsites that you may use!

Whether you use an Approved Technician or a 16th edition electrical contractor is your choice!!

You may still be required to carry this certficate - authorised by the NCC!!!

 

[rayc]

Steve, It depends upon what you mean by Professional servicing.

I entrusted the servicing of my caravan to the dealer I purchased it from. The branch local to me had closed down but they sent their mobile engineer to my home. I had just had the drive resurfaced and told my wife to give hime a sheet of ply to use under his jack whilst carrying out the brake inspection. When I got home She said " he has stamped the service book and there is a sticker in the window with a tick and the year etc. I asked about the ply and she said " he wouldn't jack the van up as he was on his own and it is against his health and safety rules".

I of course made a BIG fuss and he and a mate were dispatched back to do what they were supposed to do in the first place.

so there you are: All the stamps and certificates in the world mean nothing unless you are confident in the tester. In fact they are worse than having nothing done because you think things have been checked and they havn't giving a false sense of security.

 

[Surfer]

I have to assume that Stella is either naive or being humourous with their posting as who in the right mind would let a electrician strip their caravan to check the wiring? They do not even do this in a house!

I would have second thoughts about allowing a qualified carpenter to strip my caravan never mind a electrician!

I am still waiting for one example where the wiring has caused a fire in a caravan but obviously this has never happened.

 

[ProfJohnL]

On the 26 Jan 2010 06:46 PM I posted a reply in which a raised a concern about the invasiveness of the PIR and the possible consequence arising of having the electrical installation effectively dismantled and rebuilt for each PIR.

It is a well know fact in engineering circles that the repeated disassembly of a system not only wears components out, but it increases the chance that the reassembly may not be completed correctly thus inducing a fault that may not have been present previously. The tedious nature of the work required in a caravan will easily lead to such events.

In addition, and again anyone who has worked extensively on caravans will know, that the majority of furniture and other assemblies that rely on wood screws or fixing to wood are very prone to not holding together well after they have been dismantled and re assembled. The situation will become worse the more times a screw is releases and re tightened in the original hole.

After a coupe of cycles of PIR caravans are likely to develop some very loose furniture and other fittings. This is going to accelerate the deterioration of caravan interiors, and as it will be a direct result of intervention by a trades person, they may discover they become liable for repair costs.

The NCC and the IEE need to seriously rethink this PIR proposal.

 

[SteveW77]

Ray C.

I take your point about poor quality work from professional service engineers, the only thing to do is exactly what you did, make a fuss, insist that the work is re-done and tell as many of your friends as possible until these con artists are forced out of business. However the fact remains, that there are huge numbers of caravans out there that are never checked by a quailified engineer from the time they are released by the makers, until they collapse from old age. Always assuming that they have not been in an accident before then. I personally am more concerned by the idiot passing me at 70mph towing a van that possibly has a serious mechanical fault, than by being parked next to a van that has not had a P.I.R. test done.

Steve W

 

[rayc]

Steve, You seem to be building up a case for the introduction of MOT testing of caravan together with Registration and Road Tax. It may be the best thing that could happen as the MOT ststion would be subject to VOSA inspection and garages outside of the caravan dealership network would spring up to take the testing and remedial works. A caravan is not a very complex bit of kit as far as the running gear and lighting is concerned [or for that matter any other part of it despite those with a vested interest trying to make it so].