Passed the B+E Test...

[RobKnapp2]

A waffling post, just because I'm fairly chuffed with myself! I passed the B+E test yesterday!
Took a days tuition on Wednesday, with a couple of hours before the 10:30 test on Friday.
Felt well and truly done in after the test as I found it quite intense, but only picked up 2 faults, one for a slightly 'unorthodox' approach to the reversing exersize (examiners words - mine were "I made a right pigs ear of that!") and a missed mirror check opportunity on the Magic Roundabout in Swindon.
Mrs K has already been asking questions such as "so...now you have this license thing....how much can you tow on the Passat??"
Happy times!
Rob

 

[ProfJohnL]

Congratulations Rob.

The wide open road awaits...

The answer to your OH question, is "probably not as much as she would like". It wont make a great deal of difference with the car you have especially if you follow the industry guidance of not exceeding 85% of unladen weight.

 

[RobKnapp2]

Thanks Prof.
Pretty much exactly my response, although mighy be a good way of getting something like an E class or similar under the radar with Mrs K!

 

[Damian]

Well done Rob.
Any test is always worrying, but dragging a new unfamiliar box behind you at the same time is not easy.

Your reversing, should you wish to improve, will get better the more you do it, its not an easy thing to master (if anyone actually ever does " Master" it) and despite best efforts, sometimes it will go like clockwork, others it will be everything you thought you may hate about reversing.(with a van on the back).

 

[RobKnapp2]

Thanks Damian,
It was the one part of the test that bothered me the most, although Ive towed for a few years now, in comparison to the rest, the going backwards bit is not actually practiced all that much with me, I do it once when we arrive and once when we get home and its usually the same move - essentially drive down a road and pitch the van. If it was a reverse around a corner perhaps I would have been better!
Annoyingly, I practiced this quite a lot with the instructor, and on my own, and didnt get it too wrong during the practice, still got through it I guess!
Being 15 or so years since my car test, it was quite a nerve racking time, a myriad of bad habits ive picked up. Obviously my standard of driving had to improve for the test ( ) and trying hard to keep this up - I must say, i was quite surprised at how much more aware i feel on the road with the further mirror checking etc, both solo and towing, and how that awareness translates into potential options to deal with situations as they arise...
Cheers
Rob

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm pleased your looking at the positives. I'm sure that with more practice you will feel better about the reversing.

I too find reversing probably the most worrying part, Its not too bad when your using a familiar trailer in a familiar place, you learn some of the landmarks you can use to tell you when you need to turns etc, Fortunately most of my towing these days is with my own trailers but in days gone by I had to deal with a wide variety of tow vehicles and trailers, and it wasn't too bad reversing in straight line or going round bends, but it was the length of the outfit and knowing when to stop. A 'banksman' was definitely useful.

 

[Dustydog]

Well deserved Rob. A good result after all the hard work.
Reversing is not easy for anyone.
SWMBO did a Caravan Club towing course 10 years ago. Excellent.
Even an old dog like me picked up an excellent reversing tip.
When reversing hold the steering wheel at the bottom.
If you want to go left move your hand to the left.
Right, move your hand to the right. Avoids those momentary lapses of reason when reversing.
Straight line reverse same thing .
Use you mirrors watching an equal view in each mirror.Hand still at bottom move left or right to counter any deviation.

How many times have you seen people swinging from one lock to the other totally confused where the caravan is going.

 

[Woodentop]

OK, I'll set off an argument.

Is the OP towing a big van? A Passat (in my case estate) is 1525Kg (or thereabouts) and the most it can pull is 1800Kg, which added together is 3.3t for which www.gov.uk/towing-with-a-car says you don't need B+E.

B+E weight restrictions only apply to people to passed their test after 1/1/97.

 

[Woodentop]

Congratulations Rob.

The wide open road awaits...

The answer to your OH question, is "probably not as much as she would like". It wont make a great deal of difference with the car you have especially if you follow the industry guidance of not exceeding 85% of unladen weight.

Eh?

The so-called guidance (which is a number plucked out of the air with no legal backing) is that the weight of the towed trailer should not exceed 85% of the kerb weight of the towing vehicle - which might be misconstrued from the wording above.

What is MUCH more important is that the nose weight of the trailer must not exceed either the maximum capability of the towbar or the maximum of the towing vehicle as specified by the manufacturer whichever is the lighter. I suspect many people never check this the number of times I see towcars with their front wheels barely making contact with the road!

 

[LizziePope]

Many congratulations on passing the test, Rob!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oh dear Woodentop,

You have fallen into the weights debate.

You may be correct about weight for the Passat, but even with a maximum permitted GTW of 3.3T you could still fall foul of the 3.5T limit of your licence.

The towed weight limit of the car is a weight limit but subtly not a capacity limit, The car could pull an empty trailer MIRO of 600kg but with an MTPLM of 2.5T. because it's on the road weight will be under the cars 3.3T limit.

BUT as a driver with only a Cat B licence you could not pull the trailer because the licence looks at the maximum capacities (Combined MAM) of the tow vehicle and trailer, not at the actual on the road weights.

I concede I should have perhaps made clear the 85% is the towed weight guidance not the nose weight.

 

[Keefanmaxx]

Congratulations on passing the test, a big relief no doubt!

I'm not sure how I'd fare if I was to take the current driving test ..... 31 years since I passed initially, although I do have to undergo refresher training and re-accreditation for the driving qualification I hold for work which I find nerve wracking enough!

I like Dustydogs advice reference the steering wheel hand position - I'll be giving it a go next time I'm out with the 'van.

 

[Woodentop]

Oh dear Woodentop,

You have fallen into the weights debate.

You may be correct about weight for the Passat, but even with a maximum permitted GTW of 3.3T you could still fall foul of the 3.5T limit of your licence.

The towed weight limit of the car is a weight limit but subtly not a capacity limit, The car could pull an empty trailer MIRO of 600kg but with an MTPLM of 2.5T. because it's on the road weight will be under the cars 3.3T limit.

BUT as a driver with only a Cat B licence you could not pull the trailer because the licence looks at the maximum capacities (Combined MAM) of the tow vehicle and trailer, not at the actual on the road weights.

I concede I should have perhaps made clear the 85% is the towed weight guidance not the nose weight.

Let me rephrase that.

The MTPLM of my caravan is 1362Kg. My car kerb weight is 1525Kg and the maximum it can pull is 1800Kg - way above the MTPLM of my van. [I assume 1800Kg is the maximum the chassis will take before deforming and/or that the 2L 140TDi engine is capable of moving without destruction.]

Since neither have plated weights as they are not commercial vehicles, can you explain how my outfit could exceed 3.5t, and following that why most people towing a similar 'normal' caravan with a 'normal' car (i.e. not a Chelsea Tractor pulling a 6-berth twin-axle) train holding a B licence would need the E extension?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Woodentop,

I must appologise as having reread my post I can see how you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

I was not suggesting that you may not be able to drive your outfit, I was trying to make a more general point, and I thought I had explained it in the post you have quoted. :huh: But that seems not to be the case.

Some forum contributors have mistakenly assumed that because the Cat B licence says they can tow an outfit up to 3500kg they can hitch up any trailer and provided they keep the on the road weight below 3500kg they are legal.

What they have failed to understand is their licence entitlement is not about what their outfit actually weighs on the road, but in fact they should be looking at what the "combined MAM" of the outfit is, and that is what must be kept below 3500kg.

Taking for example the 2015 VW Passat estate 2.0 150 Auto DSG (manufactuers data
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/passat-estate-viii/which-model/engines/overview

Unladen weight 1505kg
Maximum laden weight 2130kg = MAM
Maximum braked trailer weight 2000kg

Under the terms of the Cat B licence a driver can only tow a braked trailer with a combined MAM of up to 3500kg

3500 - 2130 = 1370kg

That is the biggest trailer MTPLM a cat B licence holder can legally tow with that car.

Licence entitlements determine the maximum load capacities of the vehicles they can drive, so you have to look at the maximum permitted weights as well as the, towing ratio's

 

[RobKnapp2]

Hi All,
Apologies for not being around for a while - work has been very hectic!
Many thanks for the messages of congratulations - it was indeed a relief!
With regards to the vehicle - I have a Mk7 CR140 DSG with a few options fitted. From memory (work has the V5 and i cant find the photocopy) the kerbweight is around 1625kg's. Critically though when I had my B License, taking the MAM figure from the weight plate on the car, and adding the MTPLM of the caravan as shown on the plate by the door produced 3495kg's - I did have a DVSA officer once comment "thats quite close sir!"
Im not an expert certainly, so the following may be plain wrong, but my understanding is that if a B license holder was stopped, the officers will check the license, find a B category, then immediately check the plated weights. If thats over the license limits, the show is over at that point! Rumor piece here...i did hear that if the caravan manufacturers plate is missing or not readable, they will check the plate of the axle/chassis (apparently they have one too - must have a look next time its on a ramp for service!) these weights are invariably higher that the caravan plate?

Ultimately though, although I was just inside my license limit, I took the test as it will make outfit matching slightly easier in the future, i have a yearning for an E Class which is alot heavier (the wife says its a 'phase im going through' and it will wear off!!) I can provide help to my friends when they need it (such as shifting the horsebox or their large van with their vehicles) and in a roundabout sort of cliche way, I enjoyed the challenge of meeting the test standard again!

With regards to the tip on the reversing, a number of years ago I was speaking to my driving instructor whom i passed my license with originally, he was a caravanner and we were first starting out. I asked him for tips, and that was the exact one he gave me - i still use it to this day and it does work very well. By the end of November, Im usually getting 'alright' at the backwards bit as i get a bit of practice in, we tend to have a break from about January to April, and the first site we visit usually produces some interesting maneuvers! Practice practice practice I guess!

Cheers
Rob

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Rob,

At 3495kg you are indeed close but perfectly legal in respect of your licence and would continue to be legal right up to 3500kg! Mr VOSA was scaremongering by implying the 3495 was 'Close' the fact is the MAM values of cars or trailers don't change so it will as legal tomorrow as it was yesterday.

However whilst the MAM values don't change, what does of course change on a trip by trip basis is the actual loads on the car and caravan. Unlike most commercial vehicles where their purpose is to carry a 'payload' and the load margin (MAM - ULW [I know mixed units]) is considerable, by comparison cars and especially caravans have relatively small load margins which are quickly swallowed up.

It seems quite likely that a surprising number of caravans in use are often over loaded, and also with a car load of family I also wonder how many cars may also be overloaded. Given this possibility there must be other caravanners with similar outfits to yours, which fall just within the combined MAM figure, but are actually over loaded and beyond their Cat B 3500kg licence limit. That would be a double prosecution, overloaded vehicle, and exceeding a licence entitlement.

Again congratulations on the BE success