Perished tyres.

[Raywood]

Hello Ray

Thingy has now admitted the caravan was “pre loved” so the old new stock scenario is out the window.

I can't agree with your analysis of Thingy's situation. Principally as he has owned the second hand caravan for 6 months, the burden of proof is now on his shoulders to support any CRA claim.

The problem with tyres is they are considered to be a consumable. They are designed with the fact that as they travel they will be worn away, and because of the nature of the environment in which they are located they will be subjected to all sorts of agents that will cause then to deteriorate over time. Tyres will be subjected to unintentional abuse (wrong tyre pressure, kerbing, or being stored in direct sunlight etc) that might cause increased wear or even damage that may shorten its life expectancy.

These are all variables that no Dealer can guarantee against except by replacing tyres as a standard practice on second hand vehicles.

All the seller of second hand vehicles has to ensure is the tyres are roadworthy.

Trying to prove a second hand tyre was faulty six months after it was sold raises a number of other questions. If it is claimed the fault is a case of gradual deterioration with the inference that it should have been visible 6 months earlier, Why then has it taken 6 month for it to come to light? It surely should have been picked up during the owners normal pre travel checks.

The dealer could easily challenge the claim by questioning who much the tyre has been used by Thingy, and how can he be so sure he has not caused the deterioration in the same way that a previous owner may have done. Its also likely the dealer would have some evidence of a pre sale check list which might include a tyre check.

Too much time has passed allowing for greater uncertainties. I think it would be very difficult to pursue the dealer for supplying faulty tyres without prior evidence to show the tyres WERE faulty at the point of purchase.

Hi prof, I understand your argument about the burden of proof but given the tyres are cracking up after six months that in itself would suggest they were faulty from the date of sale. If there had been bulges or damage that would be a different matter and if there is evidence of problems with these tyres on the web that should be conclusive, or at least if I was on the other side I would not be suggesting defending it.
As Thingy says he is unlikely to take it further though the argument is probably now academic.

 

[Thingy]

As Thingy says he is unlikely to take it further though the argument is probably now academic.

Exactly, it was worth asking the dealer, if you dont ask you dont get. If the man from Del Monte says No, its hardly the end of the world. I have already ordered replacements via Kwik Fit Mobile.

This issue is just a minor disappointment, far worse things to cry about.

 

[Parksy]

Unfortunately this reinforces the advice that many of us often give to prospective buyers, which is 'check everything and take nothing for granted'.
I have to admit that if I bought a caravan from a dealership I'd have been unlikely to examine the tyres too closely because I'd have thought that safety of their customers would be paramount..
The balance of probabilities suggest that these tyres had already deteriorated when the caravan was purchased,, so Thingy's topic serves as a further warning for prospective buyers to check and check again before accepting the caravan.
In this case no damage was done and it will be interesting to see how the dealers responnd.

 

[Damian]

Quote " I understand your argument about the burden of proof but given the tyres are cracking up after six months that in itself would suggest they were faulty from the date of sale."

You have it wrong , the date code for the tyres is 2015, so they are not six months old, they are 4 years old.

 

[Thingy]

You have it wrong , the date code for the tyres is 2015, so they are not six months old, they are 4 years old.

This is pretty much the issue. Logic, though not practice says that if you were selling a caravan with four year old tyres to a customer, then you would check the condition of those. The point really behind my argument is not the age of the tyres, but whether they would have deteriorated to this point in six months. If tyres standing is the main issue, then in the six months that I have had the caravan, they have been from Derby to Dealers in Yorkshire and back three times, Derby to Hawes and Derby to Oban. Given that we have had little sunshine and a mild winter, I am convinced there would have been some evidence of cracking at point of sale.

I fully accept that with my experience, I should have picked up on it, rather than trust the dealer and his PDi people. Lesson learned and no harm done.

 

[Damian]

Quote " I should have picked up on it, rather than trust the dealer and his PDi people. Lesson learned and no harm done."

What is so frustrating is that a purchaser should not "have" to second guess or check that basic servicing has been carried out, or that a proper and effective PDI has been done by a so called professional dealer or his workshops.

However, your situation is a lesson which I would hope will shake buyers up a bit and that they will not be pressured into accepting a van until THEY are fully happy that everything is up to standard, even allowing some leeway on a second hand, or preloved, van.

I have always advocated that a purchaser should never accept the word of a seller but ensure that they fully understand how everything works, AND have a full demonstration that everything on the prospective van is working.
A lot of dealers will not be happy to have to spend maybe half a day or so , connecting everything up and running and providing ALL the answers to the various questions, but if they will not do that, just walk away and see what they do then !!!!!

It is a business deal, not a marriage. Buy with your head, not your heart !!!!!!

 

[Guzzilazz]

Following this thread, I specifically looked at the tyre dates on the Cabrera over the weekend, they were week 22 of 2018, which equates to last week of May... Be interesting to actually follow where they had been for that time...

 

[ProfJohnL]

The majority of caravan tyres will be purchased by the caravan manufacturers in bulk. The tyre manufacture (regardless of who it is or where they are) will not be making tyres on demand, they will do them in a btatch over a reletively short period of time, and stock pile them. Consequently its entierly likely are tyre may have some age to it before it is even fitted to a caravan.

Provided stock piled tyres are kept in the correct conditions, age related deteriorationcan be virtually halted,

Despite this the caravan club advice is to change tyres at least every 7 years. This advice does not preclude the neccesity to regularly check the condition of tyres.

 

[Dustydog]

The majority of caravan tyres will be purchased by the caravan manufacturers in bulk. The tyre manufacture (regardless of who it is or where they are) will not be making tyres on demand, they will do them in a btatch over a reletively short period of time, and stock pile them. Consequently its entierly likely are tyre may have some age to it before it is even fitted to a caravan.

Provided stock piled tyres are kept in the correct conditions, age related deteriorationcan be virtually halted,

Despite this the caravan club advice is to change tyres at least every 7 years. This advice does not preclude the neccesity to regularly check the condition of tyres.

Sorry to be pedantic Prof but your last statement is wrong.
CAMC recommend changing tyres at five years old but not using tyres more than seven years old .
Generally the two Clubs and the various Ownwers Clubs say change the tyres ar five years old as the rule of thumb.

 

[Thingy]

UPDATE

The dealer has accepted responsibility without argument. They concur the tyres havent perished to this condition in the time we have had the caravan, and therefore must not have been roadworthy at point of sale. They have been very good over the issue and will reimburse me in full.

Alls well that ends well.

 

[Parksy]

Good result, its nice to hear about a dealer who is doing the right thing.